Sydney Zoo $36 million zoo with roaming African animals planned for Blacktown

[zoomaniac]

I think the point that was trying to be made was that a small urban zoo is never going to be as good as a large open range zoo for a large species such as an elephant.

If so, then I can follow this statement mostly. I just came up with my post because @toothlessjaws' did not clarify if it was only about space or husbandry/keeping in general. However, I know at least 2 examples of urban zoos (= zoos laying within a BIG city property) that have at least "good amount of space" for their elephant exhibits: Tierpark Berlin and Omaha's Henry Doorly Zoo. It always depends on each situation and should not be generalized.

Speaking to a person who was in a position to know, Taronga received a constant stream of complaints about their elephants while Dubbo received none. There is a term "social licence" which is perhaps apt in this situation. The "social licence" for elephants in urban zoos appears to be running out, at least in Australia.

I'm sure you are closer to this then I am. However: "Social licence" doesn't impress me and should not impress the responsible persons of Taronga Zoo either. We should look at scientific facts (and experiences in husbandry) rather then some weird "feelings" that probably have their origin from animal rights activists.

 

[toothlessjaws]

I know at least 2 examples of urban zoos (= zoos laying within a BIG city property) that have at least "good amount of space" for their elephant exhibits: Tierpark Berlin and Omaha's Henry Doorly Zoo. It always depends on each situation and should not be generalized.

I have not been to Omaha, but I would very much disagree that Tierpark Berlin provides an adequate amount of space for its elephants. If that antiquated exhibit is what you define as acceptable then we have wildly polarised viewpoints on this issue.

I'm sure you are closer to this then I am. However: "Social licence" doesn't impress me and should not impress the responsible persons of Taronga Zoo either. We should look at scientific facts (and experiences in husbandry) rather then some weird "feelings" that probably have their origin from animal rights activists.

Social license indirectly allows public-funded zoos like Taronga to operate. But also I believe the facts, be them based on science or just common logic, supports elephants being kept in much, much larger environments that that in which most urban zoos can reasonably provide. And i'm happy to generalise on that.

I'm also willing to take a guess that most people who work with elephants, not just animal rights activists, would agree with me.

 

[zoomaniac]

I have to clarify/correct that I mean(t) the space the (African) elephants at Tierpark Berlin will have from now on (= additional space from old Asian Elephant and Rhino exhibits). My mistake. However: The old OUTDOOR exhibit wasn't that bad either (or if so, then there were not a lot of good elephant exhibits left worldwide - no matter if urban or not).

... that in which most urban zoos can reasonably provide. And i'm happy to generalise on that.

And I'm happy that you obviously no longer generalise but differ...

 

[Chlidonias]

Just having a look at the zoo's Facebook page, they have various "teaser" announcements that they will be opening very soon - I'm guessing the first day of whenever the school holidays start in Australia.

There was also this passage: "Sydney Zoo is the home to the largest Reptile and Nocturnal House in Australia! Featuring the top two most venomous snakes in the world, Australia's largest lizard and the endangered spotted-tailed quoll, this unique building is something we can't wait for you to experience."

I'm more interested in this and the aquarium than all the cut-and-paste bowling-green enclosures for ABC animals in the rest of the zoo. The shots I've seen of the reptile enclosures and aquariums look very nice.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

$36 million dollars.... That is an awful lot of money IMO to be spending on African species given the state of Ozzy wildlife.

 

[Simon Hampel]

The unfortunate thing is that it didn't *need* to be such a constrained site. The Western Sydney Parklands are, in total, more than 15 times the size of Central Park. I wonder if they couldn't have secured a slightly more spacious location.

Perhaps - but it's not as if it's one large park, it's a "linear" park, it's quite long, but not all that wide.

It also has a lot of existing usage - it's not as if there's nothing there now. It also gets quite hilly the further south you go.

What's more - allowing a private enterprise to take over public space set aside for parkland is always going to be problematic (most of the existing private usage pre-dates the formalisation of the parklands boundaries).

 

[Nisha]

Sydney Zoo will officially open on 7th December

The Sumatran Tigers also appear to have arrived - any info on which individual/s they received would be appreciated?

 

[CGSwans]

An adult ticket is $40 in a 'grand opening sale', which makes me assume something closer to $50 for regular pricing. Online tickets also have a specified date *and* time, which I imagine is a temporary measure to manage an early burst of visitors.

Taronga Zoo will be pleased by those prices - they're slightly more, rather than less expensive but Taronga has a bit more going on (though the ABC lineup is broadly the same), so it won't be quite as damaging to their business as it might have been. Still, the difference is small enough that it's hard to imagine a family from Campbelltown or Penrith making the trip all the way to Taronga (each is the same distance as Manchester is from Chester Zoo), when they could go to Blacktown instead.

Personally I can't imagine visiting more than once at those prices. I'l combine it with Featherdale on a future Sydney trip and then stick with Taronga after that.

 

[Zoofan15]

The Sumatran Tigers also appear to have arrived - any info on which individual/s they received would be appreciated?

About the only thing we can guarantee is they'll be non breeding tigers!

I think the most logical step would be for Hamilton Zoo to send them mother and daughter, Sali (2008) and Kirana (2008). This would free them up to import Delilah (2016) to breed with Oz. Delilah was sired by Juma (from the Nico/Meta line) so Oz is one of the few tigers in the region not closely related to Delilah.

I could also see them importing Scout and Reggie (both born 2016); though given Reggie's value to the breeding programme, I'd say this is less likely.

 

[Nisha]

About the only thing we can guarantee is they'll be non breeding tigers!

I think the most logical step would be for Hamilton Zoo to send them mother and daughter, Sali (2008) and Kirana (2008). This would free them up to import Delilah (2016) to breed with Oz. Delilah was sired by Juma (from the Nico/Meta line) so Oz is one of the few tigers in the region not closely related to Delilah.

I could also see them importing Scout and Reggie (both born 2016); though given Reggie's value to the breeding programme, I'd say this is less likely.

I managed to screenshot the individual in the video. (This is assuming they haven't used footage from somewhere else) and I've then compared the facial markings to individuals at Australia Zoo. I don't believe that it's any of them. What do you think? Image of the individual attached

 

[Nisha]

Update - having compared more pictures of facial markings, I'm *reasonably confident* that the individual in the picture/video is female, Shanti (B06/2008) from Dreamworld. Will try to confirm over the next few days

 

[Zoofan15]

Update - having compared more pictures of facial markings, I'm *reasonably confident* that the individual in the picture/video is female, Shanti (B06/2008) from Dreamworld. Will try to confirm over the next few days

There’s a photo of Shanti on here: Tiger Island | Dreamworld

Assuming the correct photo was used, that’s definitely not Shanti.

Shanti has a thick black wishbone shaped stripe above her right eye; the tiger in that pic doesn’t.

Note also the double spot on the right of that tiger’s brow ridge (Shanti has a single spot).

 

[zoomaniac]

An adult ticket is $40 in a 'grand opening sale', which makes me assume something closer to $50 for regular pricing. Online tickets also have a specified date *and* time, which I imagine is a temporary measure to manage an early burst of visitors.

Taronga Zoo will be pleased by those prices - they're slightly more, rather than less expensive but Taronga has a bit more going on (though the ABC lineup is broadly the same), so it won't be quite as damaging to their business as it might have been. Still, the difference is small enough that it's hard to imagine a family from Campbelltown or Penrith making the trip all the way to Taronga (each is the same distance as Manchester is from Chester Zoo), when they could go to Blacktown instead.

Personally I can't imagine visiting more than once at those prices. I'l combine it with Featherdale on a future Sydney trip and then stick with Taronga after that.

I'am really shocked about the entrance fees in Australian zoos. 40 Australian Dollars are about 25 Euros or 27 Swiss Francs. Most tickets for European Zoos are cheaper, sometimes even clearly cheaper.
One explication could be, that many European zoos, specially in Germany, are supported by the public/local government. But are all zoos in Australia (completely) privat financed?
And to compare at least with Switzerland: What is the average income in Downunder?

 

[Chlidonias]

I'am really shocked about the entrance fees in Australian zoos. 40 Australian Dollars are about 25 Euros or 27 Swiss Francs. Most tickets for European Zoos are cheaper, sometimes even clearly cheaper.
One explication could be, that many European zoos, specially in Germany, are supported by the public/local government. But are all zoos in Australia (completely) privat financed?
And to compare at least with Switzerland: What is the average income in Downunder?

I think the main factor is population base. There are fewer visitors so entry fees need to be higher. But also Australia is simply an expensive place.

 

[ZooBoyNZ]

The zoo is currently open to select groups of people before it officially opens, I found some videos on YouTube which give an idea of what to expect.
Comparing the actual exhibits to some of the concept art we got... well to say the least it's pretty disappointing even though that was expected. See for yourself

 

[MRJ]

I'am really shocked about the entrance fees in Australian zoos. 40 Australian Dollars are about 25 Euros or 27 Swiss Francs. Most tickets for European Zoos are cheaper, sometimes even clearly cheaper.
One explication could be, that many European zoos, specially in Germany, are supported by the public/local government. But are all zoos in Australia (completely) privat financed?
And to compare at least with Switzerland: What is the average income in Downunder?

A small population spread across a huge land does make things expensive in Australia. Additionally we have a high minimum wage and an award structure that ensures high loadings on weekend/holiday work. Australia is a very wealthy country, last year we surpassed Switzerland as having the highest median wealth per person in the world. Wealthy countries are always expensive to visit.

As for ownership the following zoos are owned and operated by State governments:

Victoria: Melbourne, Healesville, and Werribee.
NSW: Taronga and Western Plains
SA: Adelaide, Monarto and Cleland
WA: Perth

There are also a handful of zoos owned by local governments but everything else is private. However even in government zoos there has been moves towards full cost recovery over the last few decades. Lastly, and I have no figures to support this, I imagine that the emphasis on OH&S and on animal welfare in Australian zoos results in a higher keeper/animal ratio in our zoos.

 

[DavidBrown]

The zoo is currently open to select groups of people before it officially opens, I found some videos on YouTube which give an idea of what to expect.
Comparing the actual exhibits to some of the concept art we got... well to say the least it's pretty disappointing even though that was expected. See for yourself

Does the zoo actually have rhinos, giraffes, and bull sharks? They are on some of the signage in that video tour of the zoo (first video), but no exhibits are shown for them.

 

[Zoofan15]

Does the zoo actually have rhinos, giraffes, and bull sharks? They are on some of the signage in that video tour of the zoo (first video), but no exhibits are shown for them.

They have no Giraffe, Southern white rhinoceros or Asian elephant at this stage. There was a requirement for them have a certain number of their species at the zoo on opening day; so these species must fall outside of that. Their anticipated Giraffe (Kimya) has been diverted to another zoo. To my knowledge, they're also awaiting Western lowland gorilla.

 

[Shirokuma]

Sumatran and Siberian tiger from Dreamworld according to this video posted on Twitter

10 News First Sydney on Twitter

I think this is the same video but it can only be viewed in Australia

Western Sydney Zoo Set To Open Before Christmas

The various videos seem to confirm my low expectations. I’m not convinced the board walk is a good idea as it involves viewing animals from above. It seems the lions are basically in a pit. Aesthetically the enclosures are deeply underwhelming and I find it puzzling that they talk about immersion. I’d say it’s like being immersed in a kid’s Planet Zoo layout. Anyway, I wish them well and hopefully I’ll visit next year.

 

[MRJ]

I'am really shocked about the entrance fees in Australian zoos. 40 Australian Dollars are about 25 Euros or 27 Swiss Francs. Most tickets for European Zoos are cheaper, sometimes even clearly cheaper.
One explication could be, that many European zoos, specially in Germany, are supported by the public/local government. But are all zoos in Australia (completely) privat financed?
And to compare at least with Switzerland: What is the average income in Downunder?

I'm currently at a tourism forum and just heard a talk about labour market dynamics. I can confirm that Australia does currently have the highest minimum wage in the world, just beating Luxemburg if that helps with your comparisons.