ZooChat Cup Group B2: Berlin Zoo vs Vienna

[CGSwans]

One Berlin behemoth is now functionally eliminated from the game, but the other one can keep its season alive here. A win for Vienna would just about seal qualification - and leave the European champion to rely on other results going its way.

The topic? North America and Europe

 

[CGSwans]

Hmm, I see there might need to be a prompt for debate to get underway here, maybe this will do it.

The remaining categories in this group will be Africa and South America. The remaining matches are Chester v Vienna and Berlin v Taronga. Obviously I don’t know for sure but my suspicion is that Chester and Berlin will go into those matches heavily favoured under either category.

What that means, therefore, is that this Berlin v Vienna match functions as an effective qualifier: the winner is very likely to advance, the loser is very likely not to. That should be a good incentive to help get to the bottom of who deserves to win this.

 

[amur leopard]

Berlin species list:

Alpine marmot
California sea lion
Eastern Atlantic harbour seal
Eurasian beaver
Eurasian reindeer
European bison
Plains buffalo
Polar bear
White-tailed deer
Wolf

10 species

Vienna species list

Black tailed prairie dog
European ground squirrel
Northern lynx
Plains buffalo
Polar bear
Wolf

6 species

Neither nor are very impressive species lists.

 

[BillEel]

I’ve been following these intermittently so correct me if I’m wrong but more then just mammals are in play right? Can't speak to Berlin's collection but Vienna's strength lies in its excellent exhibition of European reptiles and amphibians including species like Hungarian meadow viper and dice snake. When factoring in North American species that list is considerably longer. It’s work with waldrapp ibis must be taken into account as must the quality of the ibis, lynx, wolf and bear enclosures.

 

[Penshet]

While definitely not adding a huge amount of species, Vienna does have some outdoor terrariums with native species dotted throughout the zoo. I quite liked these, as it shows people the wildlife around them that they might not see.
In addition to that, Vienna actually has a European-themed area (the Tirolergarten) which is more than Berlin has (although even in Vienna I think it has a lot more potential).

Berlin probably has the bigger collection, but Vienna actually has something with a focus on European wildlife.

That's why I'm voting 2-1 for Vienna

 

[CGSwans]

I’ve been following these intermittently so correct me if I’m wrong but more then just mammals are in play right?

Correct. The category is “Europe and North America” and that is inclusive of all animals that come from those two continents (with the exception of neotropical species that range into Mexico).

 

[Giant Panda]

A thought experiment: if Pairi Daiza were still in the Cup and drew Asia against Berlin, who wouldn't hand it a win for the temples alone? Pairi's innovation, ambition, and evocation of Asia are unparalleled – without even considering the animals. Having drawn Europe, Schönbrunn's architecture is Pairi Daiza on steroids.

Franz Stephan’s Central Pavilion is the most iconic zoo building in the world. Marvelling at the 18th-century murals and gazing across the spoked enclosures belong on every ZooChatter's bucket list. Crucially, the beautiful baroque curves are quintessentially European. They reflect the taste of Imperial Vienna and the power of the Habsburg Dynasty. The category is Europe, so the buildings count.

By that logic, Berlin's architecture is eligible as well: the Elephant Gate, Giraffe House, Antelope House, etc. I have a special place in my heart for the adjacent European and American bison enclosures. But Berlin can't beat the world's oldest zoo. Vienna is not just the mainstay of zoo history. It belongs to the Schönbrunn World Heritage Site, one of the world's most important architectural treasures.

Schönbrunn's European animal exhibits also trounce Berlin's. The Tiergarten's forested upper third is devoted to European species. Wolves and lynx have large paddocks; native herps have a succession of outdoor enclosures; native fish have a succession of outdoor tanks; an Austrian farmstead is authentic and charming. The highlight is Vienna's Canopy Walk, which presents the local forest from an exciting new angle (ZooLex Exhibit - Nature Experience Walk: In the Forest). How many zoos care so much about their own backyard? The interpretives are characteristically outstanding (e.g. ZooLex Exhibit - Beehive). On North America, the Desert House's Gila monster enclosure is wonderful and the multi-levelled polar bear habitat eclipses Berlin's.

Given its world-beating strengths in this category, I'm parking my vote at 2-1 Schönbrunn. Berlin earns a point for its buildings and Vienna's lack of American taxa. And if it seems like I've thought too much about architecture and not enough about animals, ask yourself this... Who leaves Schönbrunn without believing the Central Pavilion is the highlight?

 

[CGSwans]

And suddenly, Berlin teeters on the edge of elimination. Who wants to make a rebuttal?

 

[Mr. Zootycoon]

And suddenly, Berlin teeters on the edge of elimination. Who wants to make a rebuttal?

The most memorable experience I had in Zoo Berlin that is related to the category is the large coastal aviary near Welt der Vögel. It was not marked on the map, and there's relatively little written about it on Zoochat. Gawking terns, diving scaups and a variety of waders including avocet, curlew and Ruddy Turnstone foraging on the water's edge makes for a great lively display. It was a beautiful, interesting and well-made exhibit, and one that will always remain one of the highlights of my first visit to Zoo Berlin.

(Thanks @LaughingDove!)

Other memorable experiences where the large lakes with all kinds of waterfowl (including many European species, such as Ruddy Shelduck), the Little Bitterns in (I think) the Fasanerie, and the Bison paddock. But overall it is somewhat limited. I think it is a real shame that in the endless rows of aviaries that call Zoo Berlin home, there's only very few that exhibit native species.

Not a very good rebuttal at all, which is why I voted 2-1 Vienna.

 

[lintworm]

The Coastal bird aviary in Berlin is really good indeed and is one of the highlights in Berlin. But for the rest I find the housing pretty bland in Berlin, but the historic houses for the Bison and Wisent are pretty cool, their paddocks are on the smaller side...

On both mammals and birds Berlin will have the (slightly) better collection. In addition to the six species listed by @amur leopard , Vienna also has Collared peccary & Barbary macaque and Berlin also has White-nosed coati.

When it comes to Birds, Vienna does not have a huge diversity (but neither has Berlin), but their European bee-eater aviary is lovely and shared with other typical European birds like Pied avocets, European thick-knee, Little bittern and others. In addition the zoo houses Waldrapp, Ural owl and Bearded vulture (the latter in one of the very few sub-standard enclosures of the zoo), which are all being re-introduced in the wild. Additionally some other birds like Flamingo, Pelican and cormorant are dotted around the zoo.

The real stars are the ecotherms though, with quite a number of terraria for native species dotted around the zoo, as well as a small outdoor aquarium section, which features 3 large tanks with native fish, which is very well done. I guess Berlin also has some European fish in their aquarium, but it cannot be very distinctly, as I do not remember it clearly (despite having visited multiple times over the past years).

 

[Jogy]

When looking at 'Zootierliste' and knowing Zoo Berlin very well I can't see why Vienna should win against Berlin.

If Vienna would be in any way strong in this category (like Munich was in the last battle) I could fully agree but do we want Vienna to win because they are better than Berlin or just because we're disappointed that Berlin does not have a huge EU/NA collection (in comparison to other regional collections)?

• Mammals: Already listed above
• Birds: The share of EU/NA birds in comparison to other regions at Berlin might not be big - but still they have significantly more EU/NA birds species than Vienna has
• Aquarium: Vienna has a nice Aquarium - but it is not comparable with Berlin which represents a comprehensive overview across all continents and climate zones

As both are not really strong in that category I don't see a 3:0 victory for any of the two but I clearly see Berlin stronger than Vienna and therefore vote 2:1

 

[lintworm]

Aquarium: Vienna has a nice Aquarium - but it is not comparable with Berlin which represents a comprehensive overview across all continents and climate zones

But only European & North-American aquaria count in this challenge, so that Berlin gives a comprehensive overview of the other continents doesn't matter. Within the scope of this competition Vienna really annihilates Berlin on ectotherms.

And if one would count domestic mammals, Vienna would have easily the better mammal collection (in better enclosures as well).

 

[pipaluk]

This is probably one of the most difficult choices so far, I'm not sure which way to vote 2-1, for the time being I won't vote at all

 

[BillEel]

I’m unwilling to jump in as I’ve never been to Berlin, so I’m holding off until there’s been more of a case made for it in this discussion.

 

[pipaluk]

I’m unwilling to jump in as I’ve never been to Berlin, so I’m holding off until there’s been more of a case made for it in this discussion.

I am in the opposite situation as I've not been to Vienna. Neither zoo seems particularly strong in this category