ZooChat Cup Group B2: Chester vs Taronga

[TZDugong]

As someone who has visited Taronga, I’ve voted 2-1 for them due to their great collection of Australian species (of course it would be a surprise if they didn't) and from what I can recall very nice exhibits for their Australian animals. In particular the Platypus house I thought was amazing.

I think Chester definitely deserves a point: I really like the look of the Tuatara and Fossa exhibits and they have a decent and diverse collection. It'll be hard to sway me towards 2-1 Chester though, as Taronga got them on it's strongest category.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

I didn't know that!

Yep I suspect there has been more study on the subject since, but a cursory check online found this 2009 paper which discusses the fact fossil remains referrable to V. komodoensis have been found in Queensland, that the large size of the species is not due to island gigantism and is a monophyletic shared character of the Komodo Dragon, Lace Monitor and Crocodile Monitor, and that the species is believed to have evolved in Australia.

 

[Maguari]

I've only been following the contest at a distance (I'm afraid three-page demarcation debates are not something that draw me in, and I'd rather only comment on zoos I've seen for myself) but amongst all the Australia and Wallacea discussion I really think it's worth calling attention to the quality of the exhibit for Rodrigues Flying Fox at Chester - barely mentioned so far - a huge nocturnal free-flight that is still one of the best enclosures there (and, I would suggest, in the UK) two decades in, with literally hundreds of bats (with the disclaimer that only one of the two bat species present is an 'islands' category species - although there are tenrecs in there as well, of course).

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Highlight exhibits for "Island" species at Chester, starting with non-Malagasy and non-Melanesian taxa:

Tuatara - as previously noted, this exhibit is large and well-vegetated, and provides plenty of space for the 1,5 individuals within. The enclosure contains several artificial burrows, and the substrate extends for a few feet I believe. The collection was the first collection outside of the native range to successfully breed the species some years ago.

Fruit Bat Forest - in my opinion the best bat exhibit I have ever seen, with no other exhibit coming close; although for obvious reasons photographs of the interior are somewhat hard to come by, there are images in the gallery showing the layout of the house. An entry annexe contains exhibits for Lesser and Greater Hedgehog Tenrec, after which one enters a massive walkthrough exhibit containing Rodrigues Flying Fox and Sebas Short-tailed Bat.

Komodo Dragon - the exhibits for this species are located within the Dragons In Danger house, and comprise a large indoor exhibit, a pretty good outdoor exhibit - which the dragons do regularly use in the summer months - and at least one offshow enclosure.

--

We don't seem to have any photographs in the gallery showing the aviaries for Pink Pigeon or Soccoro Dove, both in the Tropical Realm, so I will see what I can root out of my photo archives but in the meantime I will next post exhibit shots pertaining to Melanesia.

 

[ThylacineAlive]

As someone who has visited Taronga, I’ve voted 2-1 for them due to their great collection of Australian species (of course it would be a surprise if they didn't) and from what I can recall very nice exhibits for their Australian animals. In particular the Platypus house I thought was amazing.

I think Chester definitely deserves a point: I really like the look of the Tuatara and Fossa exhibits and they have a decent and diverse collection. It'll be hard to sway me towards 2-1 Chester though, as Taronga got them on it's strongest category.

Would you mind commenting on how accurate the Wikipedia species list it?

~Thylo

 

[CGSwans]

Alright, usually I wouldn't wade in to this extent but Taronga is a little outgunned in terms of voters who have personally visited the respective zoos, so I'll bend my own rules.

I think there's two ways of assessing Taronga here that are potentially relevant: one is the direct comparison between it and Chester, which I'll steer away from, but the other is how to assess its merits as an 'Australian' collection in the context of it being the only Australian zoo in the field.

Of the three major Australian urban zoos I've been to (Melbourne and Adelaide being the others), Taronga has by far the most substantial and 'complete' Australian collection. I haven't visited in three years and so I won't attempt to make a species list., but all the commonly-held and quite a few uncommon marsupials and monotremes are present, and I can't bring to mind any that are poorly housed. They also have Goodfellow's tree kangaroos in a really quite nice boardwalk-style complex at the top of the zoo, and ring-tailed lemurs in possibly the ugliest walk-through exhibit I've ever seen.

Then there's the afore-mentioned long-beaked echidna, which has been on display off and on over the years, but unfortunately always 'off' when I've been in Sydney! I'd be curious to know what value people place on Taronga having it, as my understanding (quite possibly wrong) is that it's essentially the last individual left over from the postage stamp collection mentality that Taronga maintained into the 1970s. @Hix - do you know more about their history at Taronga?

The reptile house is relatively comprehensive in its representation of Australian reptiles and amphibians and also has tuatara (which I have never successfully seen, either at Taronga or any other zoo), Fijian crested iguana and Komodo dragons, which I will include here as a way of refraining from commenting on whether they *should* be included. Galapagos tortoises are elsewhere in the zoo. There might also still be New Caledonian giant geckos, but I'm not sure., and I also can't remember whether they are one of the Australian zoos that holds Madagascar day geckos, but they probably don't make much difference anyway. Taronga, along with other Australian zoos, are taking a prominent role in ex-situ breeding of the Fijian iguanas, and domestically it is also taking a co-leading role with Melbourne on corroboree frogs.

As an aside, that species is almost certain to go extinct in the wild due to climate change, and I wonder if in 100 years such species will still be maintained in zoos as glorified relics of what once was.

The Australian bird collection is much, much better than Melbourne but inferior to Adelaide, and I fear it's trending more in Melbourne's direction than Adelaide's. There's a handful of small, mixed-species habitat aviaries from various parts of New South Wales, the enormous walk-through, mixed bird/reptile/mammal exhibit Creatures of the Wollamai (themed around a national park in the Blue Mountains region near Sydney), an extensive wetlands complex with what I assume must be pinioned pelicans, herons, ducks and so on. Oh, and a cassowary exhibit that is straight out of Jurassic Park.

The final relevant exhibit that I can think of is Great Southern Oceans, which allegedly cost $50 million which, I cautiously suggest, is quite a lot of money to spend on little and Fiordland penguins and Australian sea lions (leopard seals having long ago disappeared from the collection).

One thing I will note is that as much as Taronga's Australian fauna collection should make it a destination zoo for *anybody* from outside Australia (and it is, even for non-zoo nerds), it's in a sense 'easier' for it to be an oustanding Australia & Islands zoo than it is for Chester, which due to its much broader range of options for what it focuses on has had to actively choose to have the strengths in Malagasy and other Islands fauna that it enjoys.

 

[Brum]

Would you mind commenting on how accurate the Wikipedia species list it?

Funnily enough, that's what I've just resorted to. The Taronga website is absolutely woeful in terms of animal listings. But if that Wikipedia article is accurate then that, along with having looked at some exhibit photos in the gallery, makes my 2-1 Taronga feel more justified.

 

[CGSwans]

Funnily enough, that's what I've just resorted to. The Taronga website is absolutely woeful in terms of animal listings. But if that Wikipedia article is accurate then that, along with having looked at some exhibit photos in the gallery, makes my 2-1 Taronga feel more justified.

Looking at it I suspect it's probably an over-estimate now for birds, but otherwise seems approximately right at least as of three years ago.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

my understanding (quite possibly wrong) is that it's essentially the last individual left over from the postage stamp collection mentality that Taronga maintained into the 1970s. @Hix - do you know more about their history at Taronga?

I can answer that one for you along with his companions now deceased, he came from London Zoo in 1994 when they decided to ditch the species in order to free up exhibit space, their assumption being that they wouldn't have much longer to live anyway.

As you can imagine, I'm a little bit salty about that

 

[TeaLovingDave]

also has tuatara (which I have never successfully seen, either at Taronga or any other zoo),

You do surprise me - I have seldom ever failed to spot the species in their exhibit at Chester, the only months in which I have never managed to do so being December and January, and I have never failed to see the species during the time of year you visited Chester

 

[CGSwans]

You do surprise me - I have seldom ever failed to spot the species in their exhibit at Chester, the only months in which I have never managed to do so being December and January, and I have never failed to see the species during the time of year you visited Chester

If you're wondering why you got a 'like' notification despite no 'like' appearing, I did it so I could literally 'dislike' this comment.

 

[Brum]

Looking at it I suspect it's probably an over-estimate now for birds, but otherwise seems approximately right at least as of three years ago.

Well in that case my 2-1 gut instinct stands.

I have seldom ever failed to spot the species in their exhibit at Chester, the only months in which I have never managed to do so being December and January

Seconded, never had any trouble either. But then again, coldest month I've ever visited was an unseasonably sunny February visit a few years ago.

 

[ThylacineAlive]

I can answer that one for you along with his companions now deceased, he came from London Zoo in 1994 when they decided to ditch the species in order to free up exhibit space, their assumption being that they wouldn't have much longer to live anyway.

As you can imagine, I'm a little bit salty about that

Didn't he come from Dallas Zoo before that, too? Or was that did now-deceased companion?

~Thylo

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Didn't he come from Dallas Zoo before that, too? Or was that did now-deceased companion?

I believe it was indeed the male, rather than either of the females

 

[birdsandbats]

Lavender Waxbill (Estrilda caerulescens) *

I just want to clarify that if counting introduced populations, this species would absolutely qualify based on an introduced population in Hawaii.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

And now, highlighted exhibits at Chester pertaining to Melanesia:

Dusky Pademelon and Goodfellow's Tree Kangaroo

This mixed exhibit is reasonably large and very well-vegetated, and since moving into this exhibit the Dusky Pademelons have bred several times. An offshow second enclosure for the Tree Kangaroo is present on the other side of the indoor house from the onshow indoors, accessed through a passageway through the ceiling of the viewing area.

Dusky Pademelon

A secondary exhibit elsewhere in the zoo for Dusky Pademelon - this exhibit formerly held Giant Anteater and Southern Pudu, but is more or less unchanged from this point in time; therefore it is safe to use photographs taken when the latter were still present.

Southern Cassowary

There aren't many good images of the new cassowary exhibit in Islands, but these two are the best I can find - the exhibit is well-vegetated and quite pleasant in appearance, although a little easy to miss.

Yellow-backed Chattering Lory

Yellow-faced Myna

These were formerly free-flying, but proved too fond of people

Tropical Realm

The bulk of this building is, as is well-known, a very large and thickly vegetated walkthrough area containing roughly thirty bird species, of which several fall under the remit of this category. Most of these are Melanesian, and I've therefore decided to cover this exhibit in this post. Although now rather old and coming to the end of its lifespan - being close to 60 years old - it is still one of the very best tropical houses I have visited in this regard; in some ways the age of the house is a benefit, as it has allowed the natural growth of the aforementioned vegetation.

Free-flying species relevant to this challenge are as follows:

Nicobar pigeon (Caloenas nicobarica)
Pied Imperial-Pigeon (Ducula bicolor)
White-naped pheasant-pigeon (Otidiphaps aruensis)
Grey-capped Emerald Dove (Chalcophaps indica)
Madagascar fody (Foudia madagascariensis)

Species present in aviaries, vivariums or other exhibits within the main hall are as follows:

Superb Fruit Dove (Ptilinopus superbus)
Cinnamon Ground Dove (Gallicolumba rufigula)
Yellow-faced myna (Mino dumontii)
Tuatara (Sphenodon punctatus)
Pink Pigeon (Nesoenas mayeri)
Golden Mantella (Mantella aurantiaca)
Henkel's Leaf-tailed Gecko (Uroplatus henkeli)
Parson's chameleon (Calumma parsonii)
Southeastern girdled lizard (Zonosaurus maximus)
Leach's anole (Anolis leachii)
Socorro dove (Zenaida graysoni)

----

Again, I am having trouble finding any images in the gallery of the current Boelen's Python, White-lipped Viper, Crocodile Monitor and Green Tree Monitor exhibits, so when I have a chance I will see what I can root out

 

[TZDugong]

Would you mind commenting on how accurate the Wikipedia species list it?

Unfortunately I can't really say, I visited in December 2014 and didn't make a species list. Tbh most of my research was done through looking at the map and remembering certain parts of the collection. Anything I said about Taronga could definitely be wrong, although I'm fairly certain that the enclosures for Aussie animals were high quality.

 

[ThylacineAlive]

Unfortunately I can't really say, I visited in December 2014 and didn't make a species list. Tbh most of my research was done through looking at the map and remembering certain parts of the collection. Anything I said about Taronga could definitely be wrong, although I'm fairly certain that the enclosures for Aussie animals were high quality.

Fair enough. I think the list is at least fairly accurate based on what I've read from @CGSwans and heard from talking with my friend.

~Thylo

 

[TZDugong]

This question will probably sound pretty dumb, and is a little off-topic, but does Chester have any bad exhibits? With all the pictures posted about Chester in the multiple cup threads, I don't think I've seen an exhibit below average quality.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Highlighted exhibits pertaining to Madagascar now:

Ploughshare Tortoise and Cuvier's Madagascar Swift

Aye-Aye and Malagasy Jumping Rat

These comprise two spacious onshow exhibits and - I believe - at least one offshow enclosure. Given the nocturnal lighting conditions, the quality of these images is lower than is possible for other exhibits - if I have a chance I will look through my old photographs to see if I can find images of the old exhibit for Buffy-headed Capuchin which these replaced, in order to give a better idea of size and scale.

Black Lemur

Note that this exhibit is intended to also hold sifaka eventually, hence the design. The indoor housing is pretty spacious, but there are no images in the gallery at present - another thing for me to attempt to remember to root out!

Lemur Walkthrough

This enclosure contains Ring-tailed Lemur, Crowned Lemur, Red-ruffed Lemur and Red-bellied Lemur; it is still quite new and therefore is both relatively unphotographed and yet to fully "grow in" the vegetation. These images show only a fraction of the exhibit - I'll see what I can do to rectify this.

Fossa

There are no photographs in the gallery of the large indoor exhibit for this species, however there are a few decent shots of the outdoor exhibit - given how new the exhibit is, the vegetation cover within can only get better. As it is, this is the best exhibit for the species I have ever seen by a massive margin.

Golden Mantella

This vivarium is rather larger than it perhaps looks in this photograph, being perhaps 5 feet long and three feet high.

Lesser Hedgehog Tenrec

The exhibit for Greater Hedgehog Tenrec (absent from the gallery) is roughly similar in design and scale.

Aloatran Gentle Lemur

This species keeps switching between this exhibit and another exhibit (not pictured in the gallery) - I'm not 100% sure which is the case at present, but I think it is this one.

Parsons Chameleon and Southeastern Girdled Lizard

This isn't a great photo of what is a reasonably large and well-vegetated exhibit, so I may look through my own shots to see what I can add.

Radiated Tortoise

Something of a new development - the species was until recently held in an open-topped exhibit within Tropical Realm, but a dedicated covered house with integrated heating has been constructed for them in another area of the main hall - partially to better suit their husbandry needs, and partially to allow tortoise species rendered temporarily homeless by the Monsoon Forest fire to occupy the old exhibit.

---

There appear to be few decent shots in the gallery showing just how large the old Lemur Island at Chester - which currently holds the Belted Ruffed Lemurs - is, so I'll do some digging for those.