We're only voting on recently extinct true pigeons here, not the Dodo (Raphus cucullatus) or its cousin the Rodrigues Solitaire (Pezophaps solitaria).
Which extinct pigeon species would you bring back if you could?
- Thread starter Sarus Crane
- Start date
Clear win for the Passenger pigeon IMO.
Once among the most numberous species in the world with a large influence on its habitat and such a natural history value it leaves all the other species ways behind it.
Its also the species from which most material is aviable if it comes to artificial re-create the species ( from some other species there's no material at all left ) and the species has already proofed it can be bred in captivity in the past.
There should also be some natural habitat being left in which the species can be reintroduced if numbers should be large enough.
Once among the most numberous species in the world with a large influence on its habitat and such a natural history value it leaves all the other species ways behind it.
Its also the species from which most material is aviable if it comes to artificial re-create the species ( from some other species there's no material at all left ) and the species has already proofed it can be bred in captivity in the past.
There should also be some natural habitat being left in which the species can be reintroduced if numbers should be large enough.
If we were talking about a realistic cloning project, you would be correct in almost all of these points - I think you are probably incorrect about there being sufficient natural habitat remaining for the species, sad to say, given the strong impact their cloning and reintroduction would have on the agricultural land of North America.
However, I would argue that the loose wording of this question implies we need not be limited to constraints of how realistic the revival of the species is
and hence there is scope for a little more imagination than to immediately jump to "which species has the most remaining material" - which is why I went for Choiseul Pigeon. Put quite simply, we know a lot about the Passenger Pigeon but there is a lot to learn about the Choiseul, including certain details of its life appearance and more-or-less everything about its behaviour and habits in life. Moreover, it was a more attractive species and represented a more evolutionarily-significant-unit (being distant kin to both Goura and Trugon, and possibly basal to both) than the Passenger Pigeon, which was sister to the Patagoenas doves and looked much like one.As for the other species listed in this poll:
Liverpool Pigeon (Caloenas maculata) - this one shares a few of the plus-points of the Choiseul, although it is nowhere near as distinct being congeneric with the Nicobar Pigeon. If we were to magically bring this one back with will alone, however, we wouldn't know where we had brought it back to
Rodrigues Blue Pigeon (Alectroenas rodericana) - as written, this one never actually existed
@Sarus Crane has conflated two extinct species known only from isolated bones, the Rodrigues Turtle-dove (Nesoenas rodericanus) and the Rodrigues Blue-pigeon (Alectroenas payandeei). The former was probably conspecific with the extant N. picturatus, incidentally. Neither is quite as alluring a prospect for revival as some of the other species in the list, however, given they are congeneric with extant species and probably differed little from them.Mauritius Blue Pigeon (Alectroenas nitidissima) - now, this one is a little more tempting given the fact I have seen one of the three extant specimens
but it has the same drawbacks of distinctiveness from an extant species.Reunion Pigeon (Columba duboisi) - this one was actually another Nesoenas, and may have been conspecific with the extant N. meyeri.
Bonin Wood Pigeon (Columba versicolor) - again, distinctiveness
it was very similar to the extant C. vitiensis and C. janthina.---
On another note, although @Sarus Crane has already explained why he omitted the Dodo and Solitaire from this poll (under the misapprehension they were not true pigeons) I am curious why he omitted the following three taxa, which are known from significantly better material than some of the species he counted:
Ryukyu Woodpigeon (Columba jouyi) - last recorded in 1936, last reported in 1960s.
Red-moustached Fruit-dove (Ptilinopus mercierii) - last recorded in 1922.
Thick-billed Ground-dove (Alopecoenas salamonis) - last recorded in 1927.
I am not a pigeon expert so I had to look up "extinct pigeon species" on google and ended up on the IUCN Redlist's site. I didn't include Dodo and Solitaire because not only would everybody probably vote for them and take away votes from other species, but also because they don't look very pigeon-like. Sorry I didn't know that they were true pigeons. I knew they were in the Columbidae family along with the other pigeons. I just felt they were so evolutionary distinct that they could be omitted from the choices in this poll.If we were talking about a realistic cloning project, you would be correct in almost all of these points - I think you are probably incorrect about there being sufficient natural habitat remaining for the species, sad to say, given the strong impact their cloning and reintroduction would have on the agricultural land of North America.
However, I would argue that the loose wording of this question implies we need not be limited to constraints of how realistic the revival of the species is
As for the other species listed in this poll:
Liverpool Pigeon (Caloenas maculata) - this one shares a few of the plus-points of the Choiseul, although it is nowhere near as distinct being congeneric with the Nicobar Pigeon. If we were to magically bring this one back with will alone, however, we wouldn't know where we had brought it back to
Rodrigues Blue Pigeon (Alectroenas rodericana) - as written, this one never actually existed
Mauritius Blue Pigeon (Alectroenas nitidissima) - now, this one is a little more tempting given the fact I have seen one of the three extant specimens
Reunion Pigeon (Columba duboisi) - this one was actually another Nesoenas, and may have been conspecific with the extant N. meyeri.
Bonin Wood Pigeon (Columba versicolor) - again, distinctiveness
---
On another note, although @Sarus Crane has already explained why he omitted the Dodo and Solitaire from this poll (under the misapprehension they were not true pigeons) I am curious why he omitted the following three taxa, which are known from significantly better material than some of the species he counted:
Ryukyu Woodpigeon (Columba jouyi) - last recorded in 1936, last reported in 1960s.
Red-moustached Fruit-dove (Ptilinopus mercierii) - last recorded in 1922.
Thick-billed Ground-dove (Alopecoenas salamonis) - last recorded in 1927.
Fair enough
for the record, they are deeply nested within a clade containing the following genera:Trugon (Thick-billed Ground Pigeon)
Microgoura (Choiseul Pigeon)
Otidiphaps (Pheasant Pigeons)
Goura (Crowned Pigeons)
Didunculus (Tooth-billed Pigeon)
Caloenas (Nicobar and Liverpool Pigeons)
Raphus (Dodo)
Pezophaps (Solitaire)
I will admist though, that I have always been a huge fan of the Goura pigeons and more recently the Choiseul and Nicobar Pigeon as well.Fair enough
Trugon (Thick-billed Ground Pigeon)
Microgoura (Choiseul Pigeon)
Otidiphaps (Pheasant Pigeons)
Goura (Crowned Pigeons)
Didunculus (Tooth-billed Pigeon)
Caloenas (Nicobar and Liverpool Pigeons)
Raphus (Dodo)
Pezophaps (Solitaire)
All of the above, but voting for Passenger Pigeon because it's the one closest to home. Fun fact: Wisconsin was home to what is believed to be the largest breeding colony of the species, and several locations throughout the state (such as the Pigeon River) are named for the species.
I'll stick with Passenger Pigeon, which I've always thought a very attractive species, quite different from the Zenaida species which are probably the nearest thing. Also, as mentioned above, it seems to have done well in captivity so would be no problem to maintain pending successful rewilding.
As noted above, it now appears to have been the sister taxon to the Patagoenas doves
particularly the leucocephala clade, I believe.
Luke da Zoo nerd
Well-Known Member
Go passenger!
As noted above, it now appears to have been the sister taxon to the Patagoenas doves
fair enough, but it still LOOKS like a Zenaida
Didn't you just say you thought they looked quite different to Zenaida?
The fact that Passenger Pigeon fared very well in captivity is one of the big missed opportunities in extinction, sad to say - as is the similar situation with Carolina Parakeet.
What I was trying to say, (but failed miserably in doing) was that it's more like them than anything else, but still sufficiently different from them.Didn't you just say you thought they looked quite different to Zenaida?
The fact that Passenger Pigeon fared very well in captivity is one of the big missed opportunities in extinction, sad to say - as is the similar situation with Carolina Parakeet.
Passenger Pigeon actually might not be extinct. The photos look very convincing:
HoriconBirds.com - Passenger Pigeon Sightings from the Birding Community
HoriconBirds.com - Passenger Pigeon Sightings from the Birding Community
Didn't convince me either. Shame.Not particularly so
Passenger Pigeons needed very large breeding colonies, without which individual birds would not survive. If flocks of this size still existed, WE WOULD KNOW ABOUT THEM!!!!!!!!!! Most of those sightings came from heavily birded states (Wisconsin, Missouri, ect.). I doubt a Passenger Pigeon could survive there undetected.
Besides, those photos are clearly juvenile Mourning Doves in the early mourning (or late evening) light.
Besides, those photos are clearly juvenile Mourning Doves in the early mourning (or late evening) light.
Although strangely enough this was not required in captivity, so the precise social mechanics are still (and forever will be) unclear.