A couple of practicalities about the book. Folks will just have to be patient with the post to the U.S Im afraid...its always like this at this time of year. Ive 30 years of experience with it. The book was never particularly supposed to be a pre-Christmas sell,its just ended up that way but its turned out to be a poor time to mail them. Courier/carrier would have been more for freight than the cost of the book sadly.NEXT...the world according to Amazon. Well the book wasnt ever going to be on U.S.Amazon...but UK Amazon have driven us crazy,and,after getting us to waste money on their bar code(in addition to our own) have said that it doesnt match. Forget it! The book is selling well anyway and they could have been taking the money that is going to the Amphibian Ark/Saola Working group in truth. Perhaps an American publisher might pick up on it..but its nothing that I`ll be pushing hard on.
America's Top 100 Zoos & Aquariums
- Thread starter snowleopard
- Start date
You made me curious enough to go through your book and write down all of the "time required" data and then look at "estimated visitor time" in the Top 100 zoo book that Tim and I wrote. In every single case your times are shorter than the ones that Tim and I agreed on and I am guessing that's because your book is not geared specifically towards zoo enthusiasts and more towards the general public. In your book, which as you know I am fond of, there are explanations as to what exactly a peccary is, or that Gerenuk and Greater Kudu are antelopes, etc. Tim and I wrote with the assumption that everyone purchasing our book already knows such basic zoology and we are well aware that some zoo nerds take zoos at a much slower pace than the average visitor.
There are 3 zoos in your book (Fossil Rim, Out of Africa Wildlife West) that I've personally visited but there was no consideration to include them in the Top 100 book. The other 14 zoos that made your book are all notable enough to have qualified for the Top 100 book.
In alphabetical order:
ABQ BioPark Zoo
Your book: 2.5 to 3.5 hours
Our book: 4-5 hours
Arizona-Sonora Desert Museum
Your book: 3-4 hours
Our book: 4 hours
Caldwell Zoo
Your book: 2.5 to 3.5 hours
Our book: 4 hours
Cameron Park Zoo
Your book: 2.5 to 3.5 hours
Our book: 4 hours
Dallas Zoo
Your book: 3-4 hours
Our book: 7 hours
I can name a couple of zoo nerds that actually took a couple of days at Dallas Zoo, with the Reptile House and its approximately 125 exhibits taking up at least an hour or longer even for a casual observer. This is easily a full-day zoo.
El Paso Zoo
Your book: 2.5 to 3.5 hours
Our book: 3-4 hours
Fort Worth Zoo
Your book: 3-4 hours
Our book: 6 hours
MOLA is an hour or two just by itself, plus the new African Savanna section is quite large.
Gladys Porter Zoo
Your book: 2-3 hours
Our book: 4-5 hours
Houston Zoo
Your book: 3.5 to 4.5 hours
Our book: 7 hours
Just like Dallas and Fort Worth, this is a major American zoo that needs the bulk of a day to tour. There is a Reptile House with 80 exhibits, a Bug House with 25 exhibits, a Bird House and a significant number of aviaries, plus a wide assortment of mammals in a zoo that packs a lot into its acreage. There is zero chance of seeing everything in around 4 hours unless people are jogging through the zoo.
The Living Desert Zoo/Gardens
Your book: 3-4 hours
Our book: 4-5 hours
Phoenix Zoo/Arizona Center for Nature Conservation
Your book: 3.5 to 4.5 hours
Our book: 5 hours
Reid Park Zoo
Your book: 1.5 to 2.5 hours
Our book: 3 hours
San Antonio Zoo
Your book: 3-4 hours
Our book: 6 hours
Again, the Reptile House could be a full hour for a serious zoo enthusiast.
Wildlife World Zoo, Aquarium & Safari Park
Your book: 4-5 hours
Our book: 7 hours
I spent 5 hours at this zoo back in 2011, before the 23-acre Safari Park addition, the Dragon World addition and the 15-acre Adventureland addition. It's at least a 6-7 hour zoo for a serious zoo enthusiast. I know that Tim enjoyed the extended hours of the 4 Aquarium buildings and that was how he squeezed everything into a single day. Wildlife World is in the Top 25 zoos in our book in terms of animals, with 600 species at the park.
I'm just curious, what was the time you put for the Toledo Zoo? I spent an hour and half in the Promedica Museum of Natural History, meaning I spent almost eight hours in that zoo! I suppose that before this complex existed, the time spend at the zoo would have been an hour or two less.
Toledo Zoo & Aquarium = 5-6 hours 'estimated visitor time' and we did include the ProMedica Museum of Natural History in the final paragraph of our zoo essay even though it only opened in May of 2019 and we didn't have time to personally tour the building. (Kind of difficult with one of us in Canada and the other in England
)
Having been to quite a few of the South-West zoos recently, I thought I'd comment on some of the estimated visiting times.
I'd say the new African Savanna isn't actually that large. It only consists of 6 exhibits; the main Savanna yard, Rhinos, Hippos, Meerkats, Flamingos and a mixed-species aviary. It's a 20 minute area imo.
Anyway, even if I somewhat disagree on some of these opening times, it's fascinating to see how long other people spend at some of my favorite zoos. Great post!
I'm not sure how someone could spend 4 hours at Cameron Park, it's a nice zoo but pretty tiny. I saw it all fairly comfortably in 1.5 hours, although more time could've been spent in the Brazos River County exhibit.
This is a pretty accurate estimated viewing time. I spent about 5.5 hours at the zoo, but if you're a huge Reptile or Elephant fan then it's definitely a 7 hour visit.
I'd say 6 hours is a little too long, as the zoo isn't really that big, especially with the current Elephant exhibit renovation. MOLA definitely takes up an hour of your time; if I was a huge reptile fan I could've been there all day.
I'd say the new African Savanna isn't actually that large. It only consists of 6 exhibits; the main Savanna yard, Rhinos, Hippos, Meerkats, Flamingos and a mixed-species aviary. It's a 20 minute area imo.
This is pretty fair, although maybe a tad too long. 3 hours is all you really need to see all the exhibits, but this is a place where you can linger and explore the botanical gardens and hiking trails.
Anyway, even if I somewhat disagree on some of these opening times, it's fascinating to see how long other people spend at some of my favorite zoos. Great post!
@snowleopard Is exactly correct when he notes the different audiences of our two books and the resulting different times. We all know that zoo nerds, the kind of people on this forum, are most definitely not normal! 
This is sort of like looking at the Wimbledon draw and being relieved to learn that Rafael Nadal made it in.
Of the 100 essays/reviews to be found in America's Top 100 Zoos & Aquariums, the 15 longest ones are listed below. In some cases the length was determined by how large the colour photos were on the page and so it's not necessarily indicative of the quality of a zoo. That being said, it shouldn't surprise anyone that San Diego reigns at the top of the pile and the choices below are certainly zoos of significance. 
San Diego - 7 glorious pages
Cincinnati - 6 pages
Miami - 6 pages
Omaha - 6 pages
Woodland Park - 6 pages
Bronx - 5 pages
Brookfield - 5 pages
Columbus - 5 pages
Milwaukee County - 5 pages
Saint Louis - 5 pages
San Diego Zoo Safari Park - 5 pages
San Francisco - 5 pages
San Diego SeaWorld - 5 pages
Toledo - 5 pages
Atlanta - 5 pages
San Diego - 7 glorious pages
Cincinnati - 6 pages
Miami - 6 pages
Omaha - 6 pages
Woodland Park - 6 pages
Bronx - 5 pages
Brookfield - 5 pages
Columbus - 5 pages
Milwaukee County - 5 pages
Saint Louis - 5 pages
San Diego Zoo Safari Park - 5 pages
San Francisco - 5 pages
San Diego SeaWorld - 5 pages
Toledo - 5 pages
Atlanta - 5 pages
Toledo and San Francisco are surprising (though I have not seen Toledo in person). And I am glad San Diego got 7 glorious pages and not just 7 regular pages!Of the 100 essays/reviews to be found in America's Top 100 Zoos & Aquariums, the 15 longest ones are listed below. In some cases the length was determined by how large the colour photos were on the page and so it's not necessarily indicative of the quality of a zoo. That being said, it shouldn't surprise anyone that San Diego reigns at the top of the pile and the choices below are certainly zoos of significance.
San Diego - 7 glorious pages
Cincinnati - 6 pages
Miami - 6 pages
Omaha - 6 pages
Woodland Park - 6 pages
Bronx - 5 pages
Brookfield - 5 pages
Columbus - 5 pages
Milwaukee County - 5 pages
Saint Louis - 5 pages
San Diego Zoo Safari Park - 5 pages
San Francisco - 5 pages
San Diego SeaWorld - 5 pages
Toledo - 5 pages
Atlanta - 5 pages
Why is Toledo surprising? It's a huge zoo that's very hard to see all in one day.Toledo and San Francisco are surprising (though I have not seen Toledo in person). And I am glad San Diego got 7 glorious pages and not just 7 regular pages!
Because my impression (which may be way off) is that Toledo is a mid sized city with a mid sized zoo.
That is an accurate impression. Toledo Zoo doesn't occupy a particularly large site and the bigger animals mostly consist of the standard zoo species. It just happens to have a lot of animal houses that each contain many small enclosures: bird house, pheasantry, reptile house, aquarium, and museum (which holds insects, venomous animals, etc). As a result, there are somewhere around 250 exhibits, which places the zoo in the top handful in the US in number of exhibits.
I've managed to l am thoroughly impressed, the quality of the book is superb and there are some excellent photos, some of which look awfully similar to ones in the gallery.
Now the question I'm asking myself is when are we going to get a new edition of the British guide up to the same high standards...?
Now the question I'm asking myself is when are we going to get a new edition of the British guide up to the same high standards...?
Andrew Swales
Well-Known Member
Now the question I'm asking myself is when are we going to get a new edition of the British guide up to the same high standards...?
We could certainly try that in our gift-shop (which should be extended over the next year or so); and in the short-term we can trial a selection of the IZES/BS titles for 2020, if that is of any interest... if the organisations can cover any on-shelf damages, we would be pleased to donate any profits to their funds.
I received my book this week. A really great book both for reading and watching. better than other books about American zoos, not only editorial (hard cover, pictures, pictures and more pictures) but above all in terms of content. History and overview of every zoo and something special for zoo nerds – enthusiasts’ choice (list of rare seen species in each zoo). Hard work of Scott and Tim gave a great effect. I've never been to America and I probably never will be but thanks to them I have a fresh look at American zoos. Great book and I think every zoochater should buy it (I have no commission on sold copies and my book was bought at regular price ).
).Now the question I'm asking myself is when are we going to get a new edition of the British guide up to the same high standards...?
Why would you wish that on Tim? After visiting over 800 zoos and many of the world's very best I struggle to imagine a trudge revisiting a comprehensive list of UK collections holds much allure. Would you want to visit all the UK's SeaLife centres in a short window of time?
Europe's Top 100 Zoos would be good though, something to replace the last "similar" exercise/travesty is much needed and, if in the style of America's...., would be fantastic.
Oh yeah, got the book today, beautiful! Good work Tim & Scott.
Why would you wish that on Tim? After visiting over 800 zoos and many of the world's very best I struggle to imagine a trudge revisiting a comprehensive list of UK collections holds much allure. Would you want to visit all the UK's SeaLife centres in a short window of time?
Europe's Top 100 Zoos would be good though, something to replace the last "similar" exercise/travesty is much needed and, if in the style of America's...., would be fantastic.
Oh yeah, got the book today, beautiful! Good work Tim & Scott.
Europe's zoos are too many and too diverse to fit into a top 100. Having done this exercise myself, you need to include at least 150 and preferably well over 200 zoos to cover the diverse range that we have on this side of the pond.
I believe somewhere earlier in this thread (or maybe in snowleopard's Europe travel thread) I asked the same question, if they were now going to do a top zoos of Europe book. The answer is that they are not but someone else is working on it.
First of all, thanks must go out to both @Arek and @Shorts, a couple of true zoo enthusiasts who I've been told have a massive amount of zoo literature between them. That would include zoo maps, guidebooks, annual reports, postcards and now a copy of America's Top 100 Zoos & Aquariums. I am thrilled to have been a co-author of such a splendid book that was worth many years of hard work, editing and rewrites. Thanks for the kind words guys!
Also, Tim recently had a reply from the legendary Bent Jorgensen, who founded the magazine International Zoo News way back in February 1951...when Bent was only 17 years old! In his message to Tim, Bent was incredibly kind and his words are ones that I'm going to save and treasure. He certainly knows zoos, as apart from producing the magazine for decades he was the Director of Copenhagen Zoo from 1979 to 1994.
On the subject of a book titled Europe's Top 100 Zoos & Aquariums, at the moment there is ZERO chance of Tim and I working on such a magnum opus. Trust me, I've brought it up with him on a couple of occasions already! Our American zoo book has been so well received that I'm convinced a European version would sell TWICE the number of copies, but for now it is not an option. I want to make that crystal clear, as I've had a lot of people suggest it to me and European zoo nerds are so far above North American zoo enthusiasts in terms of collecting zoo-themed ephemera that I believe a Brown/Richardson European zoo book would be a major hit. However, we just completed 5 years of on-again, off-again work on the American zoo book and my next big 'Snowleopard Road Trip' is tentatively set for 2022 and then we'll see after that. Tim has probably already visited 95% of all the 'best' zoos in Europe in his lifetime, but I'd need another big Euro trek to hit 50% of the best zoos on the continent and then I promised him that I'd start harassing him to write another book with me. We'll see...but for now it's a dead issue.
In terms of a European zoo book, at first I was inclined to agree with @lintworm and the prospect of narrowing down Europe's zoos to a subjective 100 can seem intimidating. For the American zoo book we had approximately 800 'zoos' of all shapes and sizes but getting 100 for the USA book wasn't much of an issue. In Europe there are around 200 zoos just in France, another 200 in the United Kingdom, at least 100 in the Austria/Switzerland region, 500 or more in Germany, etc, etc, etc. The numbers are mind-boggling with a zoo seemingly around every corner and as ubiquitous as streetlamps.
BUT...looking at the last book from the much-maligned Anthony Sheridan, I can point to the fact that he has 115 zoo profiles in there and then 9 specialist zoos to make it 124 zoos profiled in his book. There are at least a dozen fairly obscure facilities selected by Sheridan and so narrowing down the list to 100 wouldn't be as difficult as perhaps first imagined.
Lastly, one factor with a European equivalent to America's Top 100 Zoos & Aquariums is the scarcity of mega aquatic establishments. Tim and I came up with exactly 80 zoos and 20 aquariums for our USA book, but if someone was to write a book about Europe's collections then how many aquariums would make the final cut? There's Valencia, Lisbon, Copenhagen, maybe Moscow if we stretched things that far geographically, Genoa and Nausicaa in France. That's only 6 major aquariums, including the hard-to-get-to 'Moskvarium'. Any more really big ones that I'm missing? Loads of major European zoos have aquariums inside the grounds already and so stand-alone, huge aquariums are a rarity.
Also, Tim recently had a reply from the legendary Bent Jorgensen, who founded the magazine International Zoo News way back in February 1951...when Bent was only 17 years old! In his message to Tim, Bent was incredibly kind and his words are ones that I'm going to save and treasure. He certainly knows zoos, as apart from producing the magazine for decades he was the Director of Copenhagen Zoo from 1979 to 1994.
On the subject of a book titled Europe's Top 100 Zoos & Aquariums, at the moment there is ZERO chance of Tim and I working on such a magnum opus. Trust me, I've brought it up with him on a couple of occasions already!
Our American zoo book has been so well received that I'm convinced a European version would sell TWICE the number of copies, but for now it is not an option. I want to make that crystal clear, as I've had a lot of people suggest it to me and European zoo nerds are so far above North American zoo enthusiasts in terms of collecting zoo-themed ephemera that I believe a Brown/Richardson European zoo book would be a major hit. However, we just completed 5 years of on-again, off-again work on the American zoo book and my next big 'Snowleopard Road Trip' is tentatively set for 2022 and then we'll see after that. Tim has probably already visited 95% of all the 'best' zoos in Europe in his lifetime, but I'd need another big Euro trek to hit 50% of the best zoos on the continent and then I promised him that I'd start harassing him to write another book with me. We'll see...but for now it's a dead issue. In terms of a European zoo book, at first I was inclined to agree with @lintworm and the prospect of narrowing down Europe's zoos to a subjective 100 can seem intimidating. For the American zoo book we had approximately 800 'zoos' of all shapes and sizes but getting 100 for the USA book wasn't much of an issue. In Europe there are around 200 zoos just in France, another 200 in the United Kingdom, at least 100 in the Austria/Switzerland region, 500 or more in Germany, etc, etc, etc. The numbers are mind-boggling with a zoo seemingly around every corner and as ubiquitous as streetlamps.
BUT...looking at the last book from the much-maligned Anthony Sheridan, I can point to the fact that he has 115 zoo profiles in there and then 9 specialist zoos to make it 124 zoos profiled in his book. There are at least a dozen fairly obscure facilities selected by Sheridan and so narrowing down the list to 100 wouldn't be as difficult as perhaps first imagined.
Lastly, one factor with a European equivalent to America's Top 100 Zoos & Aquariums is the scarcity of mega aquatic establishments. Tim and I came up with exactly 80 zoos and 20 aquariums for our USA book, but if someone was to write a book about Europe's collections then how many aquariums would make the final cut? There's Valencia, Lisbon, Copenhagen, maybe Moscow if we stretched things that far geographically, Genoa and Nausicaa in France. That's only 6 major aquariums, including the hard-to-get-to 'Moskvarium'. Any more really big ones that I'm missing? Loads of major European zoos have aquariums inside the grounds already and so stand-alone, huge aquariums are a rarity.
It helped that, from what I heard, his initial book literally comprised every single zoo he had visited at the time of writing
and that later editions of the book used a rather strange definition of both Europe and what a zoo worthy of inclusion comprised.Well, an aquarium need not be "really big" to be significant - I'd argue the Vasco da Gama Aquarium on the outskirts of Lisbon would also require inclusion on historical grounds, at the very least, and there are bound to be plenty of other collections of this ilk.