Andrew Swales
Well-Known Member
Whilst that is quite logical, it would be interesting to see how such 'losses' would be justified to the general public/media....
Paignton Zoo Paignton News 2020
- Thread starter Brum
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Whilst that is quite logical, it would be interesting to see how such 'losses' would be justified to the general public/media....
The odd disappearance just wouldn't be announced... At least two zoos I know that used to mix monkeys with gorillas discontinued it but afaik never said so publicly.
The Hedgehog
Well-Known Member
Pertinax you also forget Kiri the twin brother of Kera at Bristol zoo if you don't remember Kiri tragically passed away aged 4 from a stomach infection
Maybe by promoting the enriched lifestyle for both species in a mix?
Obviously there's a PR tightrope to walk here.....
Andrew Swales
Well-Known Member
Mmmm... if there actually is any...
Patas and Barbary Macaque is the latest attempt, apparently - albeit not at Paignton.
I personally remain to be convinced...
Indeed - an interesting challenge for the marketing and p/r department...!
I've heard anecdotally of Mangabeys and Gorillas playing happily together (at Gaia maybe?) but not seen it personally. I take the point about mixed exhibits, and certainly there has been hideous waste of life in mixes of hoofstock with cranes/storks. Also some places have mixed Callitrichids with small birds, which is likely to lead to predation.
Mixing zebras with anything can create issues.....
The only safe group is one animal in a padded cell, and then it'll eat the padding and die
Andrew Swales
Well-Known Member
I've heard anecdotally of Mangabeys and Gorillas playing happily together (at Gaia maybe?) but not seen it personally. I take the point about mixed exhibits, and certainly there has been hideous waste of life in mixes of hoofstock with cranes/storks. Also some places have mixed Callitrichids with small birds, which is likely to lead to predation.
Mixing zebras with anything can create issues.....
The only safe group is one animal in a padded cell, and then it'll eat the padding and die
There are plenty of anecdotes, plenty of positive papers written (which often stop before the problems started, to save putting these in print?) and the full detail of any attempt is often only available 'pers comm' - as Clinton Keeling would have put it.
Yes - 'dumping' pinioned birds into an African diorama, just to make an exhibit, is something which should have only ever have been done with plastic models on a childs toy play set.
Mixing zebras with zebras can create issues...
Yes, Kiri came with the current young males, I was really just listing the previous ones that have all left, but included Pertinax as he was one of the earliest.
Yep, all of that.
I've known zebra mares kill each other, and of course they will hunt and kill baby antelopes -- and anything else they take a notion to go after.
Yes, Gaia have Black Mangabeys with Gorillas. You often see video of the young of both species playing or a Mangabey grooming a gorilla. Arnhem has golden-bellied Mangabeys with theirs. I don't know if there is a downside in either case.
Howletts a long while back had Samango monkeys and Spot-nosed(?) Guenons in a couple of their gorilla groups. The spot-noses 'disappeared' and the Samangos were later seperated out. Port Lympne at one time had a lone Colobus temporarily housed with a single gorilla male- the gorilla killed it. Bristol had De Brazzas with their gorillas for a short while. They were then removed but why I don't know- it may have been species related, or some other reason. Valencia even had rare(in zoos) Hamyln's monkeys with their gorillas- again I think it has been discontinued.
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I wonder if Apenheul still have the Gorilla/Patas mix?
Andrew Swales
Well-Known Member
A disgraceful 'waste' of the Spot-noses - and ethically undefensible.
To suggest that a 'padded cell' is the alternative to this 'enrichment', is flippant.
One mans enrichment, is another mans being ripped to pieces...
It is too much of a co-incidence that these experiments, are too often suddenly and quietly discontinued.
That's pretty much it in a nutshell...
Andrew Swales
Well-Known Member
They did when I was last there, but that was decade(s) ago, on a huge (5 acre? - or has my memory enlarged it?) moated island in the very centre of the park...
I am not sure- it was down to maybe a single Patas at one stage, I don't know the situation now.
No the island is pretty big, and nicely wooded.
Couldn't agree more. Apologies if my use of the padded cell analogy caused offence. It certainly wasn't a serious suggestion, just that there's a fine line sometimes between enrichment and hazard -- and many mixed exhibits result in squandered animals
and many mixed exhibits result in squandered animals
....which is why I said I'd prefer not to see Paignton attempt mixing their very small Diana or Mangabey groups on the Gorilla island. Currently there isn't any suggestion that they plan to though.
I quite agree that this is not a very sensible suggestion. If the animals were mixed while the gorillas were relatively young, there might be a better chance of success, but I can't think that the group of silverbacks would get much benefit and the monkeys would clearly be in danger. In addition it would be an expensive proposition as a lot of work would be needed to fell trees and dredge the channel at the west end of the island (which is separated from the gorilla's area by an electric fence) and to build night quarters for the monkeys.