Jeez, and i thought the floods happening in my country is bad enough for 2020 start.
Zoo Krefeld Fire at Krefeld Zoo
- Thread starter Najade
- Start date
I also share considerable sympathy for them. A simple mistake, even it was an illegal one, had a terrible result they could have had no idea they would cause by their actions. This will have had a life-changeing effect on all of them no doubt, whatever the legal outcomes are. The hate directed at them is of course to be expected but won't help the situation- the fire has been and the animals are gone. Perhaps the only plus side might be a more effective ban on the use of these lanterns, as a result of this tragedy.
Andrew Swales
Well-Known Member
I am not so sure that they can use ignorance as a defence, or that it was a simple mistake. Any normal person releasing a naked flame in a flammable paper bag in a built-up area MUST have an appreciation of the risk. To further claim they did not know it was illegal, is no defence either. Presumably the ban must have been publicised in the Krefeld area? If they are banned already, then it is difficult to see how more banned they can be! - other than tightening up on the penalties for their illegal use.
I do not look at the media, but do have a question.. Have the criticisms of Krefeld's use of flammable roofing material made in/by the media, trickled down to criticism of Chester's use of flammable roofing material on theirs?
The coverage of the fire at Krefeld Zoo by the traditional and social media is a weird salmagundy. Among others, it includes
- Highly emotional farewell letters and photo stories dedicated to the dead great apes (none so far to the dead fruit bats)
- Warmed-up / recycled newspaper articles questioning the existence of zoos
- Expressions of condolescence by other zoos
- Weird expressions of joy by members of the anti-zoo lobby
- Death treats by insane animal lovers
- Even weirder conspiracy theories that the zoo laid the fire itself to commit insurance fraud
...
Was the public reaction to Chester similar or is this "a German thing"?
- Highly emotional farewell letters and photo stories dedicated to the dead great apes (none so far to the dead fruit bats)
- Warmed-up / recycled newspaper articles questioning the existence of zoos
- Expressions of condolescence by other zoos
- Weird expressions of joy by members of the anti-zoo lobby
- Death treats by insane animal lovers
- Even weirder conspiracy theories that the zoo laid the fire itself to commit insurance fraud
...
Was the public reaction to Chester similar or is this "a German thing"?
Don't know if it's a"German thing" or not, but no, Chester's fire was retty much reported factually. I don't recall any public backlash to be honest, but maybe that's just the Stiff Upper Lip us Brit's are known for.
Yes, these are very plentiful on the Ape lover websites. It reflects rather the higher profile/popularity of certain species above others I think, there are very few epitaphs to the lesser species such as marmosets, bats and reptiles involved in this fire...
In Chester's case, the Great Apes (Orangutans and Gibbons) were all saved, only some of the birds and possibly reptiles(I can't remember exactly) succumbed while other birds were saved/escaped also. The building was not destroyed either, ony the roof. So the overall effect was not so devastating in that case. I certainly don't remember the same extreme 'backlash' reaction as this time, it was more just straight reporting.
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Coupled with the fact that, by a combination of luck (wind direction and time of day it broke out, 'in hours'), skill from keepers (who, unlike at Krefeld due to the time of day, were able to help as they were on site at the time) and the fact there were outdoor exhibits available animals could quickly be moved to, they didn't lose any of the primates or large reptiles, and only a smaller-than-expected proportion of the birds. Most of the losses were small fish, frogs, snakes and invertebrates - and of course these are much less likely to trigger a massive reaction from the public than orangs, gibbons or macaques would have been.
There are two significant differences between the two fires. No large animals were killed or injured at Chester and the fire was caused by an electrical fault inside the Monsoon Forest, rather than by an external cause. I suggest that both these facts contribute to the lesser response to the fire at Chester.
It's probably arguable that the fire actually improved Chester's standing with the public - it was not held to be their fault, the animal losses were minimised and there was a big upswell of donations to their conservation projects. Hopefully there will be some love going Krefeld's way as well over the coming weeks.
The problem at Krefeld is a lot of the zoo haters and so forth saw that Great Apes etc actually died in a high profile/horrible way in a fire which immediately gave them ammunition to criticise the zoo by adopting the stance 'they shouldn't have been there in the first place.' Overlooking the fact this accident was caused by forces largely outside the zoo's control. Had no Apes died the reaction might have been far lower-key.
FunkyGibbon
Well-Known Member
I think at some point there will be a bit of a swing away from the lantern lighters to the zoo itself.
As @KevinB reported last week:
There don't necessarily need to be recriminations, but at least some lessons need to be learned here.
As @KevinB reported last week:
There don't necessarily need to be recriminations, but at least some lessons need to be learned here.
This was a slight tongue-in-cheek reference of mine in regard to the German conspiracy theorists; when there's a large fire in Germany, there's always a profound sinister reason behind it (like in the case of the Reichstag fire of 1933).
Thank you @all for your explainations regarding Chester Zoo.
Andrew Swales
Well-Known Member
The comparisons are very interesting. From what I saw, the above list did not really happen at Chester. Almost the opposite, as there was an outpouring of money/donations to a huge multi-million pound organisation which was fully insured and did not need it.
The 'significant' differences between the two fires are clear, but not likely to be taken into account by the media or public. The results are quite different clearly, but the basics are the same - an indoor building housing great apes and other animals, both having flammable plastic roofs, and both subject to fires which were not the fault of the zoo.
Chester has a huge following and a level of support from the media, which is possibly not there for Krefeld (?) or other smaller zoos. Even when accidents happen which are clearly the zoo's fault, such as animal escapes, Chester manages to come out of it well; and such stories are covered by the media very lightly as amusing anecdotes. The same might not happen elsewhere.
Krefeld Zoo has a well organised Zoofreunde club that has been known to get major funding drives a good push! In fact, before the drama at their Great Ape facility that dated - mind you - to 1975 was the focus of getting the funding completed for Chimp outdoor exhibit. Over the years they have accomplished much including new black rhino outdoor, penguins and pelicans done. So, they actually thrive on local hometown neighbourly network.
In the some press and Twatter and Instagrub people just seeing a fire with animals are likely to write from the level of their toeheads! In this respect BRD is no exception to the UK. Similarly, a bit off-the-level to compare one of the major European zoos with a small regional one in the former Iron and coalmining industrial heartland of Nordrhein Westfalen!
Actually, the good press in BRD has been pretty much fair and on the level when reporting. The zoo also held a preliminairy press conference early on the next day and open and transparent over when, how, why and wherefor! That some journos cannot live with the actual facts is more personal interpretations than aligning with and getting factual evidence and fiction!
In the some press and Twatter and Instagrub people just seeing a fire with animals are likely to write from the level of their toeheads! In this respect BRD is no exception to the UK. Similarly, a bit off-the-level to compare one of the major European zoos with a small regional one in the former Iron and coalmining industrial heartland of Nordrhein Westfalen!
Actually, the good press in BRD has been pretty much fair and on the level when reporting. The zoo also held a preliminairy press conference early on the next day and open and transparent over when, how, why and wherefor! That some journos cannot live with the actual facts is more personal interpretations than aligning with and getting factual evidence and fiction!
Andrew Swales
Well-Known Member
That made me smile... The first of many times I've visited Krefeld, we stopped for petrol a few miles away, and the guy behind the counter at the service station hearing our accents asked if we were American. On being told we were English, he asked why we were in that part of Germany. We replied we were on our way to the zoo. He scoffed and said Krefeld was tiny, not worth the petrol and we should carry on to Duisburg instead. I reflected on the breadth of his 'tiny' zoo's collection and how if it were parachuted into the UK it would be one of our major players. To hear it described again as 'small and regional' takes me back... Krefeld was then, and remains one of my personal favourites. Our thoughts go out to all our colleagues there at such sad time.
Nevertheless, Chester Zoo is the far more popular and well-known zoo. Even more so on ZooChat; just compare the numbers of threads and discussions dedicated to Chester to those about Krefeld. And even among German zoo fans, Zoo Krefeld is hardly on anyone's Top 10 zoo list. Unless you like bats and mountain anoas.
BTW: hardly anyone is using the BRD acronym these days, since the GDR is no more. A simple D would suffice. ^^
Reread my post: I specifically wrote there is no value in comparing a prime European zoo like Chester to a small regional zoo in Bundesrepublik Deutschland. Absolutely pointless comparison I contend and believe.
sooty mangabey
Well-Known Member
A rather grim coda to this story, which has been featuring in various media outlets today: Gorilla injured in Krefeld zoo fire shot dead by officer | DW | 15.01.2020.
I think this is describing what happened in the immediate aftermath of the fire, although the coverage is typically unclear and sensational. At first, I thought this was a reference to the two surviving chimpanzees, but apparently not....
I think this is describing what happened in the immediate aftermath of the fire, although the coverage is typically unclear and sensational. At first, I thought this was a reference to the two surviving chimpanzees, but apparently not....
I do admit and agree that it makes for grim reading, but I did start to admire the honesty by admitting the quickest and most humane way was euthanasia by bullet, but then I changed my mind when they described the sub-machine gun used... Definitely not portraying anyone in a good light at the end!
