ZooChat 'Embrace the ABCs' Challenge - Mammals

I'm not entirely sure every letter is possible with mammals-only :p

There is an "x" species and "w" species so only Y remains as the problematic one. I'm sure we'll find something. Interestingly enough I was more concerned about the X species, but it should have probably been the other way around...:D

There's a "y" species too, don't worry! At least, on the European continent that is.

I am 100% sure that all of the more obviously difficult letters are to be found in Europe, however it's technically possible there is a sneaky letter that is common in English and not Latin/Greek. But I don't think so :p
 
I am 100% sure that all of the more obviously difficult letters are to be found in Europe, however it's technically possible there is a sneaky letter that is common in English and not Latin/Greek. But I don't think so :p

I could complete the challenge with the species on my zoo mammal life list, so within europe it should be completely possible. A handfull of species on my list have dissappeared from Europe since I saw them, but there are no missing letters as far as I'm aware.
 
Paignton Zoo (07/01/2020)

Gorilla gorilla, Western Lowland Gorilla.
Pongo pygmaeus, Bornean Orangutan.
Suricata suricatta, Meerkat.
Tapir terrestris, South American Tapir.

Current List

A:
B:
C:
D:
E:
F:
G: Gorilla gorilla, Western Lowland Gorilla.
H:
I:
J:
K:
L:
M:
N:
O:
P: Pongo pygmaeus, Bornean Orangutan.
Q:
R:
S: Suricata suricatta, Meerkat.
T: Tapir terrestris, South American Tapir.
U:
V:
W:
X:
Y:
Z:

Points: 12

Edit - thinking about it... I've not actually got a chance of winning. Oh well :eek::D
 
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Isn’t this going to be pretty difficult to complete all the way - given there only seems to be one y mammal? At least in the US and Europe, that being the jaguarundi. That one’s near-impossible to get in the US, only kept at a few very small facilities, and I understand that it can be difficult in other regions as well. Are other mammals that’d count for y kept?
 
Isn’t this going to be pretty difficult to complete all the way - given there only seems to be one y mammal? At least in the US and Europe, that being the jaguarundi. That one’s near-impossible to get in the US, only kept at a few very small facilities, and I understand that it can be difficult in other regions as well. Are other mammals that’d count for y kept?
What facilities do keep it?
 
Just a quick note on thread housekeeping: please don't discuss strategies publicly, whether it's what species to target or what combination of zoos to visit. Figuring that out will be key to winning.

Isn’t this going to be pretty difficult to complete all the way - given there only seems to be one y mammal? At least in the US and Europe, that being the jaguarundi. That one’s near-impossible to get in the US, only kept at a few very small facilities, and I understand that it can be difficult in other regions as well. Are other mammals that’d count for y kept?

What facilities do keep it?

I'm thinking about this right now. For the time being please do not further discuss publically which zoos may or may not hold certain Y species.
 
Isn’t this going to be pretty difficult to complete all the way - given there only seems to be one y mammal? At least in the US and Europe, that being the jaguarundi. That one’s near-impossible to get in the US, only kept at a few very small facilities, and I understand that it can be difficult in other regions as well. Are other mammals that’d count for y kept?

There are a few points and responses I want to make here. The first is that there are actually quite a few holders of jaguarundi in Europe, such that I think it will be far from impossible to get a Y here (and there is another option as well).

The second is that I am not too worried if it is difficult. I always imagined that it would end with people scrabbling around for a few obscure species. It does bother me if people can't complete without leaving their continent though. It's basically beyond the scope of this challenge to be geographically equal, but there should be some way for everyone to complete and get onto the podium for those bonuses.

However, any solution must be much wider than simply addressing the case here that America seems to have an issue with one slot. What about Japan? Or Australia? Or Europe next time?

I'm going to do two things. The first is to introduce a special rule for this current challenge. The second is to develop a much more universal mechanic for future ABC challenges that will address the problem.

*****
The special rule is this:

If you feel you have exhausted your region's possibilities, i.e. it's not possible for you to get all 26 without making a long journey, then PM me with a clear explanation that this is the case. Assuming your argument checks out, I will grant you permission to complete with less than 26 slots filled, but for every slot left empty the bonus you receive will be reduced by one point. For example, an American player who 'completed' first with 25 slots filled would receive five (six minus one) bonus points. An Australian who 'completed' second with 24 slots filled would receive two (four minus two) bonus points. And so on.

(Please note that following the above guidelines Americans will not get an automatic pass on Y, you need to convince me you live in a part of America far from holders of jaguarundi)
*****

I'll just offer a few thoughts on the second point in closing:

There needs to be a mechanical solution that allows people who literally can't complete without spending serious amounts of money to be competitive, but it has to be slightly underpowered so that those players who can complete aren't incentivised not to do so.

It's worth noting that the rules already make some provision for this. If you know you can't get twenty six species you should focus on recording as many 3s as possible, because someone targeting the podium bonus may well have to settle for more 1s and 2s lest they get pipped by an even faster player. Until we see it play out we literally don't know which strategy will be better.

I have some ideas about how to allow people to fill slots if they can't access eligible species. The problem is that they are slightly more complex mathematically and so I want to let people get used to the basic concept first. It will also be very beneficial to see how a round finishes; how important is the bonus really?

In closing: hopefully this post and the special rule address the current situation, albeit imperfectly. :)
 
There are a few points and responses I want to make here. The first is that there are actually quite a few holders of jaguarundi in Europe, such that I think it will be far from impossible to get a Y here (and there is another option as well).

The second is that I am not too worried if it is difficult. I always imagined that it would end with people scrabbling around for a few obscure species. It does bother me if people can't complete without leaving their continent though. It's basically beyond the scope of this challenge to be geographically equal, but there should be some way for everyone to complete and get onto the podium for those bonuses.

However, any solution must be much wider than simply addressing the case here that America seems to have an issue with one slot. What about Japan? Or Australia? Or Europe next time?

I'm going to do two things. The first is to introduce a special rule for this current challenge. The second is to develop a much more universal mechanic for future ABC challenges that will address the problem.

*****
The special rule is this:

If you feel you have exhausted your region's possibilities, i.e. it's not possible for you to get all 26 without making a long journey, then PM me with a clear explanation that this is the case. Assuming your argument checks out, I will grant you permission to complete with less than 26 slots filled, but for every slot left empty the bonus you receive will be reduced by one point. For example, an American player who 'completed' first with 25 slots filled would receive five (six minus one) bonus points. An Australian who 'completed' second with 24 slots filled would receive two (four minus two) bonus points. And so on.

(Please note that following the above guidelines Americans will not get an automatic pass on Y, you need to convince me you live in a part of America far from holders of jaguarundi)
*****

I'll just offer a few thoughts on the second point in closing:

There needs to be a mechanical solution that allows people who literally can't complete without spending serious amounts of money to be competitive, but it has to be slightly underpowered so that those players who can complete aren't incentivised not to do so.

It's worth noting that the rules already make some provision for this. If you know you can't get twenty six species you should focus on recording as many 3s as possible, because someone targeting the podium bonus may well have to settle for more 1s and 2s lest they get pipped by an even faster player. Until we see it play out we literally don't know which strategy will be better.

I have some ideas about how to allow people to fill slots if they can't access eligible species. The problem is that they are slightly more complex mathematically and so I want to let people get used to the basic concept first. It will also be very beneficial to see how a round finishes; how important is the bonus really?

In closing: hopefully this post and the special rule address the current situation, albeit imperfectly. :)
Since making my initial post, I've determined Europe's other species, as well as two additional species present in the US. However, in each instance, the species I failed to consider previously have markedly lower holdings than jaguarundi in their regions. Even with the two additional US species, the closest one to me is a 10 hour drive and near impossible to see on exhibit there. Beyond that, the holders of y species aren't really centralized; they're in the far reaches of the US, and with one exception at non-major facilities, some with limited opening. I think most US ZooChatters will be unable to see a y species without extensive travel and money spent. And this is just one country - what about the other regions of the world?

I think a penalty as a result of this problem that will certainly be an issue for many ZooChatters is a little unfair so I suggest a slightly different modification. It seems clear that most people in the US and Europe will only encounter difficulty in one or two letters - with apologies to other regions of the world, I don't know well the status of captive animals in them. I think there should be a one-letter amnesty: although you won't be given any points for missing out on one letter, none will be taken either. This should only extend to one (or two, if you're feeling generous) letters, though- after which I agree there should be a penalty (maybe even make it a steeper one, given they will already have had a letter or two excused). I think this is a lot more fair, and I would be interested to hear your (or anyone else's) thoughts.
 
I think a problem here is that you don't want us to discuss what species count for what letters here - I have no idea what species would count for X or Y or Z. How am I supposed to attempt to fill those letters if I have no way of knowing what counts? Can you at least direct us to a source were it would be easy to find this information?
 
I think a problem here is that you don't want us to discuss what species count for what letters here - I have no idea what species would count for X or Y or Z. How am I supposed to attempt to fill those letters if I have no way of knowing what counts? Can you at least direct us to a source were it would be easy to find this information?
I think Z is easy enough. I know a common zoo species with that letter in its scientific name.
 
If you look them up individually. I can't find a full list of all mammal species with scientific names anywhere on the internet.

ZootierlisteHomepage

Toggle the ‘name’ button so that you see the scientific rather than English names.

This will give you species held in Europe. North America will be slightly different, but I suspect the subset of mammals held by US zoos that aren’t held by European ones will be pretty small.
 
I feel like one of the points of the game is the challenge of finding animals which work with the letters, and then trying to work out how to play the right species. If they are just handed to you then where's the challenge in that?
 
I feel like one of the points of the game is the challenge of finding animals which work with the letters, and then trying to work out how to play the right species. If they are just handed to you then where's the challenge in that?

I’ll leave it to Funky to make a ruling on this, but ZTL is the first resource than any European player is going to use for this challenge. Why shouldn’t Americans have it as a somewhat-less-useful resource too?
 
I’ll leave it to Funky to make a ruling on this, but ZTL is the first resource than any European player is going to use for this challenge. Why shouldn’t Americans have it as a somewhat-less-useful resource too?

The point being made by Chli is that what @birdsandbats was initially requesting - for it to be permitted for people to outright tell him which species to seek out in-thread - would defeat the point of the game :P rather than saying that ZTL shouldn't be used.
 
Preamble

Today is the day of the Coming of the Kings, and I too bring gifts.....namely, a new challenge concept!

There are several key differences between this and other challenges we've seen before.

Introduction

Firstly, it will not run over a defined time period; instead the challenge will end for everyone when certain conditions have been met

Secondly, the winner will not be the player with the most species seen. No player will be able to record more than twenty six species. Instead, species recorded will have different points values, and the player with the most points at game's end will win.

Thirdly, we are not overly concerned with taxonomy or geography here. Instead, we turn our attention to spelling. You have twenty six slots, one for each letter for the alphabet. Each one can only be filled by a mammal species whose generic or specific name begins with that letter.

Explanation

Let's get down to the details.

You can only use a species once in the challenge. So, if you see Panthera tigris, you could count it either in P, or in T, but not in both.

Points work like this: one point for a specific name beginning with the right letter and two points for a generic name beginning with the right letter. An example:

I am trying to fill my G slot. At a zoo I see both Gazella dama and Callimico goeldii. Unless I for some reason believe my D slot will be particularly difficult to fill I should choose Gazella dama for G because it is worth two points rather than one. However, if I am thinking even more strategically I may choose to leave G empty after this visit because I know that next week I will visit a zoo with Gorilla gorilla and that would be worth three points, because both the generic name and the specific name begin with the right letter. (There is another reason for tactically leaving it blank, but you work that out for yourself when you've read the full post).

As you can hopefully see at this point, strategy and planning will be key in this challenge. You will want to try and find those three-pointers, and avoid singles where possible. However, you don't want to be too greedy, because:

The challenge will end after three people (the podium) fill all twenty six slots. Whatever your total is when that third finishing post is made is your final score. For this reason a mammal in the hand may literally be worth two in the bush. Furthermore, there will be bonuses for those three completers: six point for first, four for second and two for third.

Hopefully this will encourage both diverging strategies and a sense of urgency. I think it's very likely that the challenge winner will come from the podium, but it won't necessarily be the first completer. Second or third could easily leapfrog them by having more three-pointers or doubles. It's even possible that someone who doesn't complete could win, if they have enough high scoring slots.

The above should explain the structure of the challenge clearly. If it doesn't I have done a poor job of explaining it, because it genuinely isn't complicated. Below are some additional rules.

Rules

Here are three ABC Challenge specific rules that are 'new':

a. You can record no more than seven species from any single zoo (to limit the power of the big hitters);
b. You must post your updated total before your next day of scoring zoo visits. This is so that you can't wait to see if you see a tricky species or not. If you visit more than one collection in a day then they can be recorded in the same post, again, before the next day of zoo visiting. I am going to be really strict on this; it will be a disqualifying offense.
c. You cannot amend or alter your list, once you have posted and recorded a species in a slot it is locked in and cannot be changed.

As always, credit to @Shorts, who very graciously agreed to let me use his rules.

1. You have to actually see the animal, even if just for a second.
2. Proof via photographs is not required, your word is your bond;
3. You have to see the animal via normal public access and hours;
4. Any severely limited opening or private collections don't count for this challenge. ;
5. Domestics, hybrids and wild animals do not count;
6. My (final) decision is final but I'm open to discussion and debate on any specific points;

Bookkeeping

We will be following IUCN nomenclature for this challenge, and please ignore subspecific names, they are not relevant and will potentially confuse things. Please post your updates in the following format:

*****************************************

New Zoo (date visited)

Latin name, Common name
Latin name, Common name
Latin name, Common name

Current List

A: Latin name, Common name (Zoo, date visited)
B:
C: Latin name, Common name (Zoo, date visited)
D:
E:
F: Latin name, Common name (Zoo, date visited)
G: Latin name, Common name (Zoo, date visited)
H:
I: Latin name, Common name (Zoo, date visited)
J:
K: Latin name, Common name (Zoo, date visited)
L:
M:
N:
O: Latin name, Common name (Zoo, date visited)
P:
Q:
R:
S: Latin name, Common name (Zoo, date visited)
T:
U: Latin name, Common name (Zoo, date visited)
V: Latin name, Common name (Zoo, date visited)
W:
X:
Y:
Z: Latin name, Common name (Zoo, date visited)

Points: number

*****************************************

Outroduction

Just to reiterate before closing, it is not the first to complete who wins, but the player with the highest points total after three players have completed who will be victorious.

You will notice I haven't said anything about geographic restrictions. This is a global challenge in the sense that anyone can play and they can record species from zoos in multiple regions. However, in reality I am expecting this to play very locally. It shouldn't be that hard to complete and I suspect it will all be over quite quickly. And that is absolutely okay, I want this to feel like a race rather an accumulation challenge. We will go live at midnight tonight!
I quite like this concept. I certainly won't have a shot at winning but I think I'll participate for the fun of it.
 
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