ZooChat Cup finals: Chester vs Vienna
- Thread starter CGSwans
- Start date
A proper post with photos and arguments to follow, but for now I shall say it's an easy 3-0 for Chester in my opinion per the best exhibit in Europe for three major category species (Giant Otter, Spectacled Bear, Jaguar), a whole raft of other "merely" very good exhibits, a rather extensive collection and involvement in several major breeding/conservation programmes.
Have you forgotten Zurich?
Anyway, Vienna does have something to say for itself: It has a very nice Spectacled bear exhibit, a nice Humboldt penguin exhibit, a very nice Rainforest area, a large Pantanal exhibit and of course the historic and beautiful aviary area at the top of the zoo. 2-1 for me.
Species lists:
Chester
Azara's agouti
Bearded emperor tamarin
Black-and-gold howler monkey
Bush dog
Capybara
Colombian black spider monkey
Eastern pygmy marmoset
Giant anteater
Giant otter
Golden headed lion tamarin
Jaguar
Linnaeus' two-toed sloth
Paraguayan tamandua
Pied tamarin
Seba's short-tailed bat
South American tapir
Southern pudu
Spectacled bear
Yellow-breasted capuchin
Vienna
Bearded emperor tamarin
Callimico
Capybara
Collared peccary
Common red-rumped agouti
Common squirrel monkey
Cottontop tamarin
Giant anteater
Linnaeus' two toed sloth
Pallas' long tongued bat
Pygmy marmoset
Seba's short-tailed bat
South American coati
South American sea lion
South American tapir
Southern three-banded armadillo
Spectacled bear
St Vincent agouti
Vicuna
White-faced saki
White-nosed coati
Interestingly enough, Vienna actually has more mammal species in this category than Chester (21-19).
Might do reptiles and birds later.
Vienna exhibits I have forgotten to mention have been the sea lion exhibit and the polar penguin exhibits.
Chester
Azara's agouti
Bearded emperor tamarin
Black-and-gold howler monkey
Bush dog
Capybara
Colombian black spider monkey
Eastern pygmy marmoset
Giant anteater
Giant otter
Golden headed lion tamarin
Jaguar
Linnaeus' two-toed sloth
Paraguayan tamandua
Pied tamarin
Seba's short-tailed bat
South American tapir
Southern pudu
Spectacled bear
Yellow-breasted capuchin
Vienna
Bearded emperor tamarin
Callimico
Capybara
Collared peccary
Common red-rumped agouti
Common squirrel monkey
Cottontop tamarin
Giant anteater
Linnaeus' two toed sloth
Pallas' long tongued bat
Pygmy marmoset
Seba's short-tailed bat
South American coati
South American sea lion
South American tapir
Southern three-banded armadillo
Spectacled bear
St Vincent agouti
Vicuna
White-faced saki
White-nosed coati
Interestingly enough, Vienna actually has more mammal species in this category than Chester (21-19).
Might do reptiles and birds later.
Vienna exhibits I have forgotten to mention have been the sea lion exhibit and the polar penguin exhibits.
Well, you just reminded me to cite the best bat house/exhibit in Europe as an additional reason to vote 3-0 for Chester 
3-0 for Chester would be entirely undeserved, I think they have the edge but Vienna also has an excellent Spectacled bear exhibit, a fantastic bird walkthrough, a good pantanal enclosure, several very good reptilian displays and multiple other average to good enclosures throughout the zoo.
Birds:
Chester
American flamingo
Blue-necked tanager
Blue-throated macaw
Brazilian tanager
Collared trogon
Elegant crested tinamou
Golden parakeet
Great green macaw
Green aracari
Grey-breasted parakeet
Humboldt penguin
Hyacinth macaw
Lilacine amazon
Passerini's tanager
Red-billed curassow
Red-cowled cardinal
Roseate spoonbill
Scarlet ibis
Spectacled owl
Sunbittern
White-faced whistling duck
Vienna
American flamingo
Black-billed amazon
Blue dacnis
Blue-backed grassquit
Blue-backed manakin
Blue-grey tanager
Brazilian tanager
Burrowing parrot
Cuban grassquit
Greater rhea
Green-mantled tanager
Humboldt penguin
King penguin
Mexican white-fronted amazon
Northern rockhopper penguin
Purple honeycreeper
Red-legged seriema
Scarlet ibis
Southern screamer
Sunbittern
Turquoise tanager
Ultramarine grosbeak
Violaceous euphonia
Wattled jacana
White-faced whistling duck
Yellow-billed amazon
Again Vienna beats Chester in birds (26-21).
Reptiles up next.
Chester
American flamingo
Blue-necked tanager
Blue-throated macaw
Brazilian tanager
Collared trogon
Elegant crested tinamou
Golden parakeet
Great green macaw
Green aracari
Grey-breasted parakeet
Humboldt penguin
Hyacinth macaw
Lilacine amazon
Passerini's tanager
Red-billed curassow
Red-cowled cardinal
Roseate spoonbill
Scarlet ibis
Spectacled owl
Sunbittern
White-faced whistling duck
Vienna
American flamingo
Black-billed amazon
Blue dacnis
Blue-backed grassquit
Blue-backed manakin
Blue-grey tanager
Brazilian tanager
Burrowing parrot
Cuban grassquit
Greater rhea
Green-mantled tanager
Humboldt penguin
King penguin
Mexican white-fronted amazon
Northern rockhopper penguin
Purple honeycreeper
Red-legged seriema
Scarlet ibis
Southern screamer
Sunbittern
Turquoise tanager
Ultramarine grosbeak
Violaceous euphonia
Wattled jacana
White-faced whistling duck
Yellow-billed amazon
Again Vienna beats Chester in birds (26-21).
Reptiles up next.
I think that a 3-0 score is quite unfair to Vienna. They have 0 bad (or even mediocre) exhibits for their South/Central American fauna. Their enclosures for spectacled bears, Humboldt penguins and South American sea lions are perfectly adequate, although not particularly exceptional.
The South American Park has a standard combination of larger species: capybara, lowland tapir, vicuña, greater rhea, giant anteater and seriema. This part of the park was renovated in 2010 and it shows, as the indoor housing looks great. The outdoor paddock is pretty huge too, with plenty of water features and vegetation.
In the Ape House there are a couple of South American species housed as well: emperor tamarin, Goeldi's monkey, white-faced saki, common squirrel monkey, pygmy marmoset, southern three-banded armadillo and red-rumped agouti. All of these animals have access to outdoor aviaries and indoor enclosures.
The Bird House has been often talked about, and I think it's important to note that it really is one of the best bird houses in Europe. It's not huge like Berlin's Bird House or has super-rare species like Walsrode's Paradise Hall, but it does have a nice species line-up in a superbly restored historical building. In essence, Vienna's Bird House has two walkthrough South American rooms: one with two-toed sloths and some poison dart frogs, and then one with birds. Highlights here are blue-backed manakin (breeding regularly!), purple honeycreeper and white-fronted amazon.
In the Aquarium and Terrarium House there are also various South American species on-display. The most notable exhibit here is the large enclosure with an enormous amount of Pallas's long-tongued bats and caiman lizards. Also present are arapaima (visible from an underwater tunnel) and green anaconda (in an enclosure with a large amount of water).
Additionally, a few other species are spread throughout the zoo: scarlet ibis, Seba's short-tailed bat in the Rainforest House, burrowing parakeet near the main entrance, white-nosed coati next to the Rainforest House, collared peccary next to the bison, American flamingos, yellow-billed and black-billed amazons.
The South American Park has a standard combination of larger species: capybara, lowland tapir, vicuña, greater rhea, giant anteater and seriema. This part of the park was renovated in 2010 and it shows, as the indoor housing looks great. The outdoor paddock is pretty huge too, with plenty of water features and vegetation.
In the Ape House there are a couple of South American species housed as well: emperor tamarin, Goeldi's monkey, white-faced saki, common squirrel monkey, pygmy marmoset, southern three-banded armadillo and red-rumped agouti. All of these animals have access to outdoor aviaries and indoor enclosures.
The Bird House has been often talked about, and I think it's important to note that it really is one of the best bird houses in Europe. It's not huge like Berlin's Bird House or has super-rare species like Walsrode's Paradise Hall, but it does have a nice species line-up in a superbly restored historical building. In essence, Vienna's Bird House has two walkthrough South American rooms: one with two-toed sloths and some poison dart frogs, and then one with birds. Highlights here are blue-backed manakin (breeding regularly!), purple honeycreeper and white-fronted amazon.
In the Aquarium and Terrarium House there are also various South American species on-display. The most notable exhibit here is the large enclosure with an enormous amount of Pallas's long-tongued bats and caiman lizards. Also present are arapaima (visible from an underwater tunnel) and green anaconda (in an enclosure with a large amount of water).
Additionally, a few other species are spread throughout the zoo: scarlet ibis, Seba's short-tailed bat in the Rainforest House, burrowing parakeet near the main entrance, white-nosed coati next to the Rainforest House, collared peccary next to the bison, American flamingos, yellow-billed and black-billed amazons.
And Reptiles:
Chester:
Amazon Basin emerald tree boa
Caiman lizard
Graham's anole
Haitian giant galliwasp
Leach's anole
Serrated casquehead iguana
Spectacled caiman
Vienna:
Arboreal alligator lizard
Caiman lizard
Cascabel rattlesnake
Common ameiva
Common anaconda
Exuma Island rattlesnake
Hermann's tortoise
Hilaire's side-necked turtle
Hispaniolan rhinoceros iguana
Honduran Paleate spiny-tailed iguana
Morelet's crocodile
Red-sided curly-tailed lizard
Serrated casquehead iguana
South American snapping turtle
West Indian iguana
Yellow anaconda
Vienna again beats Chester in reptiles 16-7.
Chester:
Amazon Basin emerald tree boa
Caiman lizard
Graham's anole
Haitian giant galliwasp
Leach's anole
Serrated casquehead iguana
Spectacled caiman
Vienna:
Arboreal alligator lizard
Caiman lizard
Cascabel rattlesnake
Common ameiva
Common anaconda
Exuma Island rattlesnake
Hermann's tortoise
Hilaire's side-necked turtle
Hispaniolan rhinoceros iguana
Honduran Paleate spiny-tailed iguana
Morelet's crocodile
Red-sided curly-tailed lizard
Serrated casquehead iguana
South American snapping turtle
West Indian iguana
Yellow anaconda
Vienna again beats Chester in reptiles 16-7.
See, my point is that whilst Chester also lacks any bad or mediocre exhibits for their category species, they DO have four exceptional exhibits - the Jaguar house plus associated sloth, agouti and aquarium exhibits, the giant otters, the spectacled bears and the bat house - along with several excellent exhibits, and it is this which earns the 3-0 in my opinion rather than any failing on Vienna's part.
For me, these 'special' exhibits are the only things that earn Chester a 2-1 win. Elsewhere, Vienna has good to excellent exhibits along with a significantly better species list.
I think the Spectacled bear and Humboldt penguin exhibits for the species are among the best I have seen. The penguins have access to nests carved into the rocks beyond the lake and there is a nice waterfall feeding the pool. They have quit a lot of land area, most of it rocky and steep as it would be in the wild. There is also the polar penguin exhibit inside the Polar area.
Even disregarding these four exhibits, Chester *also* has good to excellent exhibits - and, I would argue, better than the majority of the good-to-excellent exhibits you cite at Vienna.
Which reminds me, two out of the three penguin species you cite are not valid species for the challenge - Humboldt counts, but the other two would come under the Islands geographic zone in my opinion. King could, I suppose, be debated, but Northern Rockhopper certainly isn't a South American species.
I wouldn't say significantly better - especially given the fact that your lists are, as I noted above, not entirely accurate
on a related note, you didn't bother to list the amphibian collections:Chester - 18 species
Bloody Bay poison frog (Mannophryne olmonae)
Blue poison dart frog (Dendrobates tinctorius var. "Azureus")
Coronated treefrog (Triprion spinosus)
Golden poison frog (Phyllobates terribilis)
Green and black poison dart frog (Dendrobates auratus)
Imitating poison dart frog (Ranitomeya imitator)
Lake Pátzcuaro salamander (Ambystoma dumerilii)
Marañón poison frog (Excidobates mysteriosus)
Mexican leaf frog (Agalychnis dacnicolor)
Mission golden-eyed tree frog (Trachycephalus resinifictrix)
Morelet's tree frog (Agalychnis moreletii)
Mountain chicken (Leptodactylus fallax)
Rio Cauca caecilian (Typhlonectes natans)
Strawberry poison frog (Oophaga pumilio)
Sylvia's tree frog (Cruziohyla sylviae)
Titicaca water frog (Telmatobius culeus)
Trinidad leaf frog (Phyllomedusa trinitatis)
Trinidad poison frog (Mannophryne trinitatis)
Vienna - 14 species
Anderson's salamander (Ambystoma andersoni)
Cayenne caecilian (Typhlonectes compressicauda)
Dyeing dart frog (Dendrobates tinctorius)
Golfodulcean poison dart frog (Phyllobates vittatus)
Helmeted water toad (Calyptocephalella gayi)
Lake Pátzcuaro salamander (Ambystoma dumerilii)
Marañón poison frog (Excidobates mysteriosus)
Marine toad (Rhinella marina)
Mission golden-eyed tree frog (Trachycephalus resinifictrix)
Mountain chicken (Leptodactylus fallax)
Strawberry poison frog (Oophaga pumilio)
Surinam toad (Pipa pipa)
Titicaca water frog (Telmatobius culeus)
Yellow-banded poison dart frog (Dendrobates leucomelas)
No, I maintain that the Northern rockhopper penguin makes common appearances on Argentinian and Chilean mainland shores.
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The Southern Rockhopper, which breeds in the Falklands and South Georgia, does indeed occur relatively regularly on the mainland of South America. However, the Northern Rockhopper - which lives and breeds on Tristan da Cunha, Gough Island and the Amsterdam and St Paul islands of the southern Indian Ocean - does not.
Trying to present a range map for all three rockhopper species (which is made obvious by the fact it shows the Pacific range of the Eastern Rockhopper too) and claiming it shows the range of the Northern Rockhopper in order to justify your claims is precisely the sort of thing we have called you out on in the past
funny thing is, it's not even accurate for all three species as the South Atlantic populations of Northern Rockhopper are missing.As you noted the size of the mixed South American paddock, a comparison from the most directly comparable exhibits at Chester (the Brazilian Tapir exhibit, and the opposite mixed Capybara and Giant Anteater exhibits):
Significantly larger, yes?
On a related note, this is the area granted to the neighbouring Spectacled Bear exhibit; for comparison note that the Vienna exhibit is 1,500 m² whilst the Zurich exhibit cited as superior is almost exactly the same size, but marginally smaller, at 4,200 m² :
....and the complex of callitrichid exhibits.....
....and the Jaguar house plus associated outdoor exhibits (including exhibits for Azara's Agouti and Linnes' Sloth, and for Southern Pudu)
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The Southern Rockhopper, which breeds in the Falklands and South Georgia, does indeed occur relatively regularly on the mainland of South America. However, the Northern Rockhopper - which lives and breeds on Tristan da Cunha, Gough Island and the Amsterdam and St Paul islands of the southern Indian Ocean - does not.
Trying to present a range map for all three rockhopper species (which is made obvious by the fact it shows the Pacific range of the Eastern Rockhopper too) and claiming it shows the range of the Northern Rockhopper in order to justify your claims is precisely the sort of thing we have called you out on in the past
As you noted the size of the mixed South American paddock, a comparison from the most directly comparable exhibits at Chester (the Brazilian Tapir exhibit, and the opposite mixed Capybara and Giant Anteater exhibits):
View attachment 427623
Significantly larger, yes?
On a related note, this is the area granted to the neighbouring Spectacled Bear exhibit; for comparison note that the Vienna exhibit is 1,500 m² whilst the Zurich exhibit cited as superior is almost exactly the same size, but marginally smaller, at 4,200 m² :
View attachment 427625
....and the complex of callitrichid exhibits.....
View attachment 427624
....and the Jaguar house plus associated outdoor exhibits (including exhibits for Azara's Agouti and Linnes' Sloth, and for Southern Pudu)
View attachment 427626
As for the Rockhopper penguins, that is an honest mistake caused by two maps which claimed to show the range of the Northern species, on Wikipedia and on google search. However claiming that my whole list is untrustworthy is exaggerating slightly, since there isn't another mistake in there. I don't appreciate the assumption that I 'tried' to put a map of the southern species on there, it came up as one of the first results when I searched up a range map, and recognising the IUCN map style, I chose it. That is just unfair and a show of misjudgement.
As for exhibit sizes, the fact still remains that Vienna's animals have more space in their Pantanal exhibits.
As for the jaguar building, giving the size of the whole building is slightly misleading since a lot of it is keeper areas, visitor walkways and the large hall for the visitors...