'Help' For Zoos in the UK

J C said:
If you went on google.co.uk and type in deframedia.blog.gov.uk it will be the first result that comes back click on this it’s the second artical on the next page, other wise here is the artical cut and paste,

There has been positive coverage in iNews and Sky News Online of the support available for zoos during the coronavirus pandemic. This includes a commitment from the government to make an emergency fund available to zoos to help them meet their expenses whilst they are unable to open to the public.

The social distancing guidance, urging people to stay at home and save lives, has meant that many businesses have had to close temporarily for the safety of their staff and customers.

Further detail on the Zoo Support Fund and the application process will follow in due course.

The First Secretary of State announced a new Zoos Support Fund, which will be launched and opened soon, at Prime Ministers Questions yesterday (22 April). He said:

We’ve got to look after zoos and all of the incredible animals they put on display for all of us. I’m very pleased to be able to announce that as a result of our engagement and our consultation we can announce a new Zoos Support Fund which will be launched and opened soon.

It will be able to provide dedicated support alongside that already made available by the Treasury to help zoos care for their animals during this crisis. I urge zoos concerned to look at the range of financial support already available but also to make contact with Defra officials so we can see how it can be best tailored for them.

Zoos are eligible to apply for a range of support schemes including business rates relief, the business interruption loan scheme, and the job retention scheme. This is additional to other available relief such as VAT deferral.
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Yes, thanks for this - it was really only the sentence LRP posted, which was missing.
Clearly 'unable to open' is legally different from 'ordered to close' ?
 
J C said:
The First Secretary of State announced a new Zoos Support Fund, which will be launched and opened soon, at Prime Ministers Questions yesterday (22 April). He said:

We’ve got to look after zoos and all of the incredible animals they put on display for all of us. I’m very pleased to be able to announce that as a result of our engagement and our consultation we can announce a new Zoos Support Fund which will be launched and opened soon.

It will be able to provide dedicated support alongside that already made available by the Treasury to help zoos care for their animals during this crisis. I urge zoos concerned to look at the range of financial support already available but also to make contact with Defra officials so we can see how it can be best tailored for them.

Zoos are eligible to apply for a range of support schemes including business rates relief, the business interruption loan scheme, and the job retention scheme. This is additional to other available relief such as VAT deferral.
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Not wanting to steal Andrew's thunder but the devil's always in the details, it's not like politicians making promises that don't live up to expectations is unusual.

The VAT deferral's all well and good (but still, not unreasonably, needs paying at some point) and the job retention scheme is fairly moot for most small zoos who still need to employ their full keeping staff to look after animals (it's not like can afford the luxury of over-capacity of keepers). There might be a small benefit for the odd staff member who runs the entrance gate/catering/gift shop (sometimes the same person) but smaller zoos will still need to employ and pay most of their staff -it's not like they can mothball the business like many others and the government need to recognise this (not an unreasonable expectation given the cash they're throwing about-for instance someone with four holiday lets will be in line to receive £40,000!).
 
Shorts said:
the devil's always in the details, it's not like politicians making promises that don't live up to expectations is unusual.
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The difference is that normally we can ask our accountants for advice and information and they can source it via their professional trade body and pass it on.

Now (for example) we ask them what 'severe financial stress' means, as we have to prove this to even be able to apply to the 'Zoo Fund'. Their answer to this is that the phrase has no legal meaning, and they cannot tell me because the Government wont answer their institutes requests and contacts.

We know that some zoos have furloughed keepers who have then returned to the same zoo to volunteer. This contradicts some of (most of?) the advice, but not all; and the Government tells us that it is a 'grey area', so presumably the decision must be made on ability to defend future legal action?

Along with telling zoos, they didnt have to close, and then telling the public that they did.

Is any of this usual?
 
Andrew Swales said:
The difference is that normally we can ask our accountants for advice and information and they can source it via their professional trade body and pass it on.

Now (for example) we ask them what 'severe financial stress' means, as we have to prove this to even be able to apply to the 'Zoo Fund'. Their answer to this is that the phrase has no legal meaning, and they cannot tell me because the Government wont answer their institutes requests and contacts.

We know that some zoos have furloughed keepers who have then returned to the same zoo to volunteer. This contradicts some of (most of?) the advice, but not all; and the Government tells us that it is a 'grey area', so presumably the decision must be made on ability to defend future legal action?

Along with telling zoos, they didn't have to close, and then telling the public that they did.

Is any of this usual?
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To the extent that government departments often give different, badly-defined and/or conflicting information/guidance -yes (it's just what they're talking about's unusual) -it's the usual usual, if you know what I mean?

Whoever gave/okayed that advice (people who are furloughed are okay to volunteer at the same place) has more cajones than me, I wouldn't be that bold in a lifetime. That said, I do idly wonder if it's possible for zoos to "twin up" and each zoo's furloughed keepers volunteer at the opposite zoo (serious disclaimer: that is not professional advice, just curiosity on whether that would be allowable within the guidelines, even though it might be argued it's against the spirit of things).
 
Shorts said:
That said, I do idly wonder if it's possible for zoos to "twin up" and each zoo's furloughed keepers volunteer at the opposite zoo
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Not just you - we have already asked...
No - it not possible for any industry. Except an exception has just been made for Agriculture only, which bizarrely is about the only part of the economy not affected by covid restrictions - due of course to its very strong lobbyists.
The volunteer/furloughing illustration I gave is not advice. Some zoos, and we have not been able to find out which, have been given permission to do this. We have written confirmation that this is a 'grey area' - but that of course is only until the next written advice is different...
 
There is huge injustice in the government's help to some sectors and not others. The Uk's supermarkets had their busiest month ever in March, yet now they have been given a gift of not paying rates for a year. I don't know for example how many tesco supermarkets there are in the uk(a thousand plus?) with annual rates of over 0.5 million to 1 million in most cases written off by the government when they simply don't need it, it is a disgrace when many who need the help don't get it!
 
Andrew Swales said:
Not just you - we have already asked...
No - it not possible for any industry. Except an exception has just been made for Agriculture only, which bizarrely is about the only part of the economy not affected by covid restrictions - due of course to its very strong lobbyists.
The volunteer/furloughing illustration I gave is not advice. Some zoos, and we have not been able to find out which, have been given permission to do this. We have written confirmation that this is a 'grey area' - but that of course is only until the next written advice is different...
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Surely it down to it being a key industry in order to feed the country? Not because of lobbyists.
 
taun said:
Surely it down to it being a key industry in order to feed the country? Not because of lobbyists.
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But is it losing money, like the supermarkets I mentioned? Probably not! So does it need help?
 
pipaluk said:
But is it losing money, like the supermarkets I mentioned? Probably not! So does it need help?
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I took the post to mean they have not had the restrictions, like being forced to shut down or close.

Also being able to bring in foreign workers.
 
taun said:
I took the post to mean they have not had the restrictions, like being forced to shut down or close.

Also being able to bring in foreign workers.
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There are plenty of British people unable to work so they can just employ them and pay them the minimum wage surely!
 
pipaluk said:
Probably because British people don't want to work for the minimum wage or farms don't want to pay that!
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Apparently a key reason is because it's seasonal work -British people would rather try and get an all year round job than bob backwards and forwards between jobs and unemployment (which is stressful and financially more rocky). Whereas some Europeans, generally from countries with weaker than sterling currencies, are happy to come across for a season and earn well compared with what they could work at home (even at minimum wage).

Also, it's a little slanderous to suggest farms (implying en masse) don't want to pay (or don't pay) the minimum wage). That's not fair and without significant evidence -I say this as someone who's not a massive fan of certain elements of the farming community (the combination of their lobbying power and sense of entitlement does not endear them to me).
 
This stinks and we need to let our elected representatives know we are not happy. Could someone post something clearly explaining what is wrong with the current situation that we could copy and paste to our MPs individually?
 
Shorts said:
Apparently a key reason is because it's seasonal work -British people would rather try and get an all year round job than bob backwards and forwards between jobs and unemployment (which is stressful and financially more rocky). Whereas some Europeans, generally from countries with weaker than sterling currencies, are happy to come across for a season and earn well compared with what they could work at home (even at minimum wage).

Also, it's a little slanderous to suggest farms (implying en masse) don't want to pay (or don't pay) the minimum wage). That's not fair and without significant evidence -I say this as someone who's not a massive fan of certain elements of the farming community (the combination of their lobbying power and sense of entitlement does not endear them to me).
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Well, we are out of the EU and from what I saw most farms wanted out, they will only be able to employ UK workers in the future so they are stuffed! As for slander, I don't think a general comment is anything to worry about and I have nothing to lose!
 
pipaluk said:
Well, we are out of the EU and from what I saw most farms wanted out, they will only be able to employ UK workers in the future so they are stuffed!
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Trust me, I'm aware of the irony and have little sympathy.

pipaluk said:
As for slander, I don't think a general comment is anything to worry about and I have nothing to lose!
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Generalisations begats cliches begats ill-informed prejudice, you might have nothing to lose but the comment fuels a general, unfounded, misconception which can be something to worry about and is not a good thing.:rolleyes:
 
Shorts said:
Trust me, I'm aware of the irony and have little sympathy.



Generalisations begats cliches begats ill-informed prejudice, you might have nothing to lose but the comment fuels a general, unfounded, misconception which can be something to worry about and is not a good thing.:rolleyes:
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Fair enough, but who outside this forum cares what we think. Sorry I believe in freedom of speech and it is well known some people are employed from either Eastern European countries inside the EU or others (currently for a while), legally or from other non EU countries (Albania, Ukraine, Turkey., Bangladesh, Pakistan ......) for below the minimum wage. Sorry that is not slander if its the truth!!
 
pipaluk said:
Fair enough, but who outside this forum cares what we think. Sorry I believe in freedom of speech and it is well known some people are employed from either Eastern European countries inside the EU or others (currently for a while), legally or from other non EU countries (Albania, Ukraine, Turkey., Bangladesh, Pakistan ......) for below the minimum wage. Sorry that is not slander if its the truth!!
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I do not doubt that some people are exploited by unscrupulous employers in the UK economy, I just don't think it's fair to generalise across a whole industry. I strongly believe in freedom of speech too (which necessarily also involves the scrutiny and backing up of claims made) so unless you've got good evidence of UK farmers breaking minimum wage laws on a wide scale (in which case go the HMRC and report it) I suggest we leave matters here.
 
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