UK zoos & lockdown going forward...

[migdog]

The 50 page document says that phase one (which is from Wednesday) involves the re-opening of outdoor spaces, which I would read as relevant to zoos (but keeping the indoor houses closed), so let's hope this is clarified soon. Jersey Zoo are re-opening to members only tomorrow.

 

[littleRedPanda]

The 50 page document says that phase one (which is from Wednesday) involves the re-opening of outdoor spaces, which I would read as relevant to zoos (but keeping the indoor houses closed), so let's hope this is clarified soon. Jersey Zoo are re-opening to members only tomorrow.

but as zoos are ticketed attractions, they will have to wait til July

COVID-19 effects on zoos and animal conservation

 

[wayne4swfc]

but as zoos are ticketed attractions, they will have to wait til July

COVID-19 effects on zoos and animal conservation

Which would contradict past advice that zoos didn’t have to close? Would this new ruling mean some zoos can now claim on insurance and for further grants?

 

[littleRedPanda]

Which would contradict past advice that zoos didn’t have to close? Would this new ruling mean some zoos can now claim on insurance and for further grants?

The 'rulings' over zoos are as confusing as everything else, as Andrew has been expressing. Apparently Durrell is opening to members tomorrow, via ticket allocation, so I really do not know where zoos in general stand.

 

[Andrew Swales]

The 'rulings' over zoos are as confusing as everything else, as Andrew has been expressing. Apparently Durrell is opening to members tomorrow, via ticket allocation, so I really do not know where zoos in general stand.

Yes LRP, it is quite bizarre that Jersey are opening with the very system, used in many other countries - but which now being effectively banned in England. Whilst Jersey's website refers to the 'Government' on a couple of occasions it also mentions the 'Government of Jersey' - this is the difference I think, and the decision is made locally, and of course they are ahead of England both on the timing of the lockdown and the control of the disease. We had assumed that control of numbers would be part of the English response, as it had been everywhere else, and so went ahead with commissioning DigiTicket. We considered that was a responsible next step, but the Government appears not to think so and we look to have wasted money we didnt have.

With regard to insurance claims. We first thought that this was the reason behind the Govt telling zoos one thing and visitors another, ie an attempted abdication of blame - but our insurers have now confirmed that pandemics negate ALL insurance policies for business interruption, not just ours. To test this in Court would require very deep pockets. There are no further grants. The existing 'Zoo Fund' was originally announced to be £100m when Boris was ill; it has already been reduced to £14m...

 

[Rosie183]

but as zoos are ticketed attractions, they will have to wait til July

COVID-19 effects on zoos and animal conservation

Which make sense as yes they are mainly outdoors but their is always indoor house’s to view animals which would need signage reminding keep your distance, and toilets and even restaurants ! As when their is bad weather people would need some where indoors to shelter x

 

[Andrew Swales]

Which make sense as yes they are mainly outdoors but their is always indoor house’s to view animals which would need signage reminding keep your distance, and toilets and even restaurants ! As when their is bad weather people would need some where indoors to shelter x

Why does that make sense? Garden Centres have large areas wholly indoors and they can receive unrestricted visitor numbers from Wednesday 13 May... they have toilets and restaurants and provide indoor shelter x...

 

[Sand Cat]

Which make sense as yes they are mainly outdoors but their is always indoor house’s to view animals which would need signage reminding keep your distance, and toilets and even restaurants ! As when their is bad weather people would need some where indoors to shelter x

Surely that varies from place to place though - excluding cafes, shops and the like, Yorkshire Wildlife Park springs to mind as one place that is VERY open! Many zoos could, I am sure, close off some animal houses to visitors, and Chester had closed all of its catering outlets prior to the lockdown starting, so I'm sure they could work around these things. Surely it would be better to have zoos open with some sensible precautions in place, than not at all?

 

[Andrew Swales]

Surely that varies from place to place though - excluding cafes, shops and the like, Yorkshire Wildlife Park springs to mind as one place that is VERY open! Many zoos could, I am sure, close off some animal houses to visitors, and Chester had closed all of its catering outlets prior to the lockdown starting, so I'm sure they could work around these things. Surely it would be better to have zoos open with some sensible precautions in place, than not at all?

That does appear to be happening in EVERY other country, including Jersey...

 

[MRJ]

Yes LRP, it is quite bizarre that Jersey are opening with the very system, used in many other countries - but which now being effectively banned in England. Whilst Jersey's website refers to the 'Government' on a couple of occasions it also mentions the 'Government of Jersey' - this is the difference I think, and the decision is made locally, and of course they are ahead of England both on the timing of the lockdown and the control of the disease. We had assumed that control of numbers would be part of the English response, as it had been everywhere else, and so went ahead with commissioning DigiTicket. We considered that was a responsible next step, but the Government appears not to think so and we look to have wasted money we didnt have.

With regard to insurance claims. We first thought that this was the reason behind the Govt telling zoos one thing and visitors another, ie an attempted abdication of blame - but our insurers have now confirmed that pandemics negate ALL insurance policies for business interruption, not just ours. To test this in Court would require very deep pockets. There are no further grants. The existing 'Zoo Fund' was originally announced to be £100m when Boris was ill; it has already been reduced to £14m...

Not bizarre at all. Jersey (and the other Channel Islands) are not part of the United Kingdom, never have been. They have their own governments and are subjects of the Queen, although the UK covers their defence and foreign affairs and they use the UK pound (with their own banknotes). So what Boris Johnson says about corona virus is irrelevant to Jersey.

Otherwise, very sorry to hear about the lack of support you are receiving. However it must be said the only reason Australian zoos got support is because they are important to international tourism, not one cent for animal welfare.

 

[Andrew Swales]

Not bizarre at all. Jersey (and the other Channel Islands) are not part of the United Kingdom, never have been. They have their own governments and are subjects of the Queen, although the UK covers their defence and foreign affairs and they use the UK pound (with their own banknotes). So what Boris Johnson says about corona virus is irrelevant to Jersey.

You have made this point before and it has never been argued so far as I can see. It remains my own opinion that the English Governments rejection of a controlled number, pre-paid visitor system, flexible and successful in other countries, such as Jersey, or CZ, or DE, or the US, (edit) and planned for by the zoos here (as I previously listed) IS bizarre. If you think it isn't, then we will have to agree to differ - but you wont change my opinion, sorry...

edit - NL, now too...

 

[lintworm]

You have made this point before and it has never been argued so far as I can see. It remains my own opinion that the English Governments rejection of a controlled number, pre-paid visitor system, flexible and successful in other countries, such as Jersey, or CZ, or DE, or the US, and planned for by the zoos here (as I previously listed) IS bizarre. If you think it isn't, then we will have to agree to differ - but you wont change my opinion, sorry...

Given how coronacases are still increasing at a high rate in the UK, it makes no sense yet to open zoos (that the UK government is opening other stuff up prematurely is stupid though). Germany and Czechia, among others have much lower increases of cases, but data from Germany & Denmark suggest that even with all measures in place corona infections are on the rise again after easing the lockdown... That doesn't bode well for the UK (Comparing with the US is nonsense, only valid to see how things should not be done).

 

[Andrew Swales]

OK. I'll repeat again. You chose the word 'stupid', and I have chosen the word 'bizarre' - I am sorry if they are not absolutely identical, but would have thought that they both explained the English Governments contradictions. I have no wish to open zoos if the situation is unsafe as the safety and health of our staff is our paramount concern, but if it is unsafe to open a zoo, it is unsafe to open a garden-centre - period.

 

[amaroc]

Garden Centres have large areas wholly indoors and they can receive unrestricted visitor numbers from Wednesday 13 May... they have toilets and restaurants and provide indoor shelter x...

Not true, numbers allowed in at any one time will be restricted, so like shops it will be one out/one in, queues will be horrendous for the first few days like they are and council tips, I personally won't be going anywhere near one.

Cafes in the centres will not be open and I doubt people will be in them anywhere near as long as they would at a zoo, so no cafe no requirement to open the toilets.

I did hear an ad on the radio the other day for one of these firms that will check insurance policies for business re the the virus and make a claim on the usual no win no fee thing, real opportunists at work

 

[Andrew Swales]

numbers allowed in at any one time will be restricted, so like shops it will be one out/one in, queues will be horrendous for the first few days like they are and council tips, I personally won't be going anywhere near one

There appears to be no number restriction in place, which there could be for a 'ticketed attraction' so presumably it will be down to traffic police to deal with the queues of cars, like they did at the National Trust and seaside towns....

I did hear an ad on the radio the other day for one of these firms that will check insurance policies for business re the the virus and make a claim on the usual no win no fee thing, real opportunists at work

The one which cold-called us last month would not offer n-w-n-f in our case, but were prepared to reduce their fees from £50,000 up front and then 10% of the result, down to £15,000 up front and then 10%....

 

[Shirokuma]

the English Governments...

It’s important to note that England doesn’t have a devolved administration - it’s the United Kingdom Government.

 

[Andrew Swales]

It’s important to note that England doesn’t have a devolved administration - it’s the United Kingdom Government.

I never suggested it did, but the lack of such separates England from the other 3 countries in the UK which do.

 

[J C]

Given the new guidelines couldn’t zoos rebrand them selves as garden centres opening for free to the public as an open space selling grass seed at £20 to £30 a bag with eccentric owners that just happen to collect exotic animals

 

[Shirokuma]

I never suggested it did, but the lack of such separates England from the other 3 countries in the UK which do.

You have twice mentioned the English government. No such thing exists.

 

[pipaluk]

You have twice mentioned the English government. No such thing exists.

To be fair, I think @Andrew Swales answered this point quite clearly. Yes it is the UK government we all know that, but since it only has complete control in England which has no devolved government, does it really matter?!