Because there is no evidence anything is bothering them!
Best UK Bush Dog enclosure
- Thread starter britishzoofan
- Start date
Andrew Swales
Well-Known Member
Quite - but he seems to be saying that there is some underlying issue which is hidden (difficult to identify) in this particular spp. Never having kept them I was just curious to know what this was.
The_melford_manatee
Well-Known Member
I think it lowers the quality of the exhibit generally.It seems unnatural.
zoogiraffe
Well-Known Member
All zoo enclosure are unnatural, regardless of how good they look because at the end of the day they are designed so people can see the animals.
Poll closed. Congratulations to Colchester on winning the vote for Best UK Bush Dog enclosure. It was extremely close and in the end they won by 1 vote over Chester. This is Colchester's first outright win in the polls and perhaps more remarkable is the fact this is the first time they have beaten Chester in a poll they have both been involved in. There had been 10 previous instances where they had failed to do so. This is perhaps more a reflection on Chester's quality than Colchester's failings. Knowsley, Twycross and Exmoor all picked up a good proportion of the votes and each clearly have good enclosures for Bush Dogs. Perhaps if Knowsley was more visited it would have done better in this poll and the Tiger one.
Colchester: 30.4%
Chester: 28.3%
Knowsley: 13.0%
Twycross: 10.9%
Exmoor: 8.7%
Dudley: 4.3%
Chessington: 2.2%
Port Lympne: 2.2%
Colchester: 30.4%
Chester: 28.3%
Knowsley: 13.0%
Twycross: 10.9%
Exmoor: 8.7%
Dudley: 4.3%
Chessington: 2.2%
Port Lympne: 2.2%
The 10 previous species which Colchester failed to beat Chester in are as follows:
Orangutan
Chimpanzee
Sun Bear
Cheetah
African Wild Dog
Lion
Tiger
Giraffe
Penguin
Aardvark
Orangutan
Chimpanzee
Sun Bear
Cheetah
African Wild Dog
Lion
Tiger
Giraffe
Penguin
Aardvark
The_melford_manatee
Well-Known Member
On 2 of those(Chimpanzee and Sun Bear)I believe Colchester deserved the win but on the others it’s logical which Chester won.
Also,Colchester was under other on the Penguins thread.Chester received no votes so some of the votes under other may have actually gone to Colchester meaning with Penguin it may not be the case.
Congratulations to Colchester!
I think Chester only actually won 3 of those polls anyway, orangutan, wild dog and Sun Bear?
The chimpanzee votes were irrelevant really as Edinburgh strolled it. Chester also won Sun Bear comfortably though so most don't agree with you on that enclosure.
Congratulations Colchester! One of if not my favourite collection in the UK. Personally, I think a lot of Colchester's exhibits are very underrated so it's nice to see them take this win!
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Andrew Swales
Well-Known Member
But why do you then assume that is bothering the bush dogs, and in a way that is 'difficult to identify'?
The_melford_manatee
Well-Known Member
Well maybe it is not bothering them but it just does not appeal to me.
Yes they do have many underrated exhibits though I do not think which the Bush Dogs is one of them.It is one of my favourite collections too.
I agree, the problem is though it has plenty of above average exhibits, some good ones like the elephants or tigers, but they are not going to be voted the best by many people as there is quite often a stand out exhibit at another zoo way above the rest.
What helped here is there was no Bush dog enclosure that was significantly better than the rest so most of the votes were well spread across 5 zoos that all got 4 or more votes (even Dudley got 2 votes!). It made a change to have an interesting contest, the Giant Otter poll is a bit of a waste of time as Chester simply has no competition in that one!
I agree with the points everyone has made above and there are probably a couple of polls where both Chester and Colchester have had a low number of votes and consequently drawn but if you had asked everyone which exhibit they preferred out of the two Colchester would have won.
However, as others have mentioned the reason Colchester has not performed well in this comparison and the polls as a whole is because it has a lot of good enclosures but not many great ones. What I was really trying to demonstrate by the fact about them never beating Chester is that there isn't a single exhibit (of species we have looked at so far) where Colchester is clearly better than Chester. This probably is an indication of Chester's consistent high standards and Colchester's inability to produce a real world class exhibit.
However, as others have mentioned the reason Colchester has not performed well in this comparison and the polls as a whole is because it has a lot of good enclosures but not many great ones. What I was really trying to demonstrate by the fact about them never beating Chester is that there isn't a single exhibit (of species we have looked at so far) where Colchester is clearly better than Chester. This probably is an indication of Chester's consistent high standards and Colchester's inability to produce a real world class exhibit.
My two favorites are Twycross Zoo and Colchester Zoo, especially the latter.
Rajang-GOAT
Well-Known Member
A lot of this is true, but Colchester has a lot of underrated enclosures which in my opinion could potentially be labelled as world class. These include: Elephant Kingdom, Kingdom of The Wild, Playa Patagonia, Dragons of Komodo, Bears of The Rising Sun, and if not now these exhibits were almost certainly world class standard when they first opened. Potentially Chimpanzee Lookout could be considered as first class when it originally opened as Chimp World in 1991. From being on Zoochat my impression has been that Colchester Zoo is quite underrated in general- Trip Advisor I believe states that it is 2nd best in the UK and 11th best in Europe. This possibly reflects that Colchester Zoo should be regarded as one of the best zoos in the UK and Europe a lot more often, certainly top 3 or 5 in the UK. I believe previous achievements in breeding such as with African Elephants and Southern White Rhinos reflects this status. We stand out to have also consistently bred species like Pygmy Hippos, White Rhinos, Aardvarks, Spotted Hyenas, Red Pandas, Victoria Crowned Pigeons, and Cheetahs, as well as having success in 2019/20 with the births of many of these species and others including Amur Tigers and Amur Leopards. I could say a lot more, but I don't deem it necessary.
I rest my case.
I've been visiting Colchester for 20+ years so obviously have an emotive/sentimental attachment to the place, but I think it's generous to label it world-class or underrated in any discussion. It is a good zoo, with a clear strength in large mammal and primate husbandry, if not exhibitry. It also has a few highly individual quirks that set it apart from other UK colletions.
The enclosures you list are good- to high-quality - but most are approaching 15-20 years in age and have been overtaken by better, more recent developments. Citing something as world-class in 1991 isn't really saying much. The new outdoor chimp space is a massive and welcome improvement for the animals' welfare.
TripAdvisor reviews? There are surely better metrics on a zoo's quality than that. I expect Colchester scores highly based on a large collection of frequently visible large mammals, and a large array of food outlets and play areas.
Breeding certain species is also not necessarily a testament to quality. Look at the conditions in which Bristol used to breed Black rhino! The elephants have not had a birth for over a decade, and likely won't again. They have done well in recent years with rhino, but other collections have equally strong records. The pygmy hippos, in their poor enclosure, have bred 3 times (?) since Kingdom of the Wild opened, with two surviving to move to other zoos.
Red panda and Victoria crowned pigeon are bred at pretty much every collection that houses them, and Colchester's enclosures for both are fine at best. The hyena breeding was very welcome, but as far as I'm aware they are now a non-breeding group (believe it's father with offspring, but happy to be corrected). The same is true of the Komodo dragons - excellent results from natural mating, but both parents have since passed and they are not yet in a position to breed again. Their consistent aardvark success has been the biggest standout for a long time. Breeding success with either Amur big cat is hardly exclusive to Colchester, but was welcome after a long time trying, and the larger of the two tiger paddocks is a truly high-class space for the animals in it.
In short, Colchester is good and I think most here would agree, and they do certain things very well, but it is a big stretch to label it one of the best in Europe or indeed the UK.
The enclosures you list are good- to high-quality - but most are approaching 15-20 years in age and have been overtaken by better, more recent developments. Citing something as world-class in 1991 isn't really saying much. The new outdoor chimp space is a massive and welcome improvement for the animals' welfare.
TripAdvisor reviews? There are surely better metrics on a zoo's quality than that. I expect Colchester scores highly based on a large collection of frequently visible large mammals, and a large array of food outlets and play areas.
Breeding certain species is also not necessarily a testament to quality. Look at the conditions in which Bristol used to breed Black rhino! The elephants have not had a birth for over a decade, and likely won't again. They have done well in recent years with rhino, but other collections have equally strong records. The pygmy hippos, in their poor enclosure, have bred 3 times (?) since Kingdom of the Wild opened, with two surviving to move to other zoos.
Red panda and Victoria crowned pigeon are bred at pretty much every collection that houses them, and Colchester's enclosures for both are fine at best. The hyena breeding was very welcome, but as far as I'm aware they are now a non-breeding group (believe it's father with offspring, but happy to be corrected). The same is true of the Komodo dragons - excellent results from natural mating, but both parents have since passed and they are not yet in a position to breed again. Their consistent aardvark success has been the biggest standout for a long time. Breeding success with either Amur big cat is hardly exclusive to Colchester, but was welcome after a long time trying, and the larger of the two tiger paddocks is a truly high-class space for the animals in it.
In short, Colchester is good and I think most here would agree, and they do certain things very well, but it is a big stretch to label it one of the best in Europe or indeed the UK.
Rajang-GOAT
Well-Known Member
You know what, fair enough. I am probably extremely biased and a lot of the claims I made were quite a stretch. The Hyena group is indeed made up of a father and 2 daughters and you are quite right and all of your other points about the species bred are true. We haven't had as many significant births is the past 10 years or so and I know that. It is frustrating if anything, as is the rate of development and new enclosures in the past decade or so compared to 15-20+ years ago. I do hope that the future for our elephants is not as bleak as it seems. I know a lot of the things I have claimed sound far from the truth- really I do just like to rant about Colchester Zoo. It has been a big part of my life for the past few years and has had a huge influence on me. I would go as far to say that Colchester Zoo is my favourite thing and place in the world. Although a lot of my claims probably come from bias it is true that I haven't seen the same impression of Colchester Zoo on here as I have on social media and elsewhere, that is probably what leads me to call it underrated, although I still have a lot to learn about zoos and conservation in general- my claims may be far from the truth.