UK zoos & lockdown going forward...

Andrew Swales said:
We have already heard that applications to the 'ZooFund' have been refused - not sure if they were 'good' ones though, but it does look as though they ARE being 'shortsighted' - which is probably not very surprising.
Click to expand...

I did notice a tweet from Chester Zoo a few days ago stating that they believed the fund to be intended for small zoos in urgent need of financial help. I don't think this was ever explicitly stated before, at least not to the media when the fund was announced, but would probably answer a few questions... except of course, how do you define a "small zoo"?
 
Andrew Swales said:
I think you are being very kind, to them.
Click to expand...
"Kind" is my default setting but I am more than a bit outraged and annoyed over what is happening.

I don't know about government money going to zoos but clearly if a zoo can open and can control the number of visitors with pre booking it is no more, and probably less, risky than a golf course and a garden centre.

Staggering ineptitude.
 
Sand Cat said:
I did notice a tweet from Chester Zoo a few days ago stating that they believed the fund to be intended for small zoos in urgent need of financial help. I don't think this was ever explicitly stated before, at least not to the media when the fund was announced, but would probably answer a few questions... except of course, how do you define a "small zoo"?
Click to expand...
When this was announced in Parliament (when Boris was ill) it was set at £100m. It has now gone down to £14m.
There isn't an obvious definition of 'small', but the maximum help for any zoo is set at £100,000.
This is 'small', by some zoo standards - and less than a Director's salary...!
 
I was just reading about the planned relaxation of the "lockdown" on 15th June and I note this includes allowing museums and theatres to reopen their gift shops - will this apply to zoos I wonder? Surely with so many indoor places being permitted to open it must be time to allow zoos to allow visitors in, albeit under strict guidelines? Indeed, Chester have already stated their plan to re-open will not include their retail outlets, yet this latest information seems to suggest that they may be allowed to re-open before the zoo itself! Utterly, utterly baffling stuff.
 
Sand Cat said:
I was just reading about the planned relaxation of the "lockdown" on 15th June and I note this includes allowing museums and theatres to reopen their gift shops - will this apply to zoos I wonder? Surely with so many indoor places being permitted to open it must be time to allow zoos to allow visitors in, albeit under strict guidelines? Indeed, Chester have already stated their plan to re-open will not include their retail outlets, yet this latest information seems to suggest that they may be allowed to re-open before the zoo itself! Utterly, utterly baffling stuff.
Click to expand...

I think until at least Thursday we won't really know what will and won't be included - as last time, they are dragging the announcements out over a period of time rather than announcing all the changes at once. It would seem very strange if you can go and hang out indoors in Meadowhall or Lakeside but not outside in YWP or Colchester Zoo, though...
 
Sand Cat said:
I was just reading about the planned relaxation of the "lockdown" on 15th June and I note this includes allowing museums and theatres to reopen their gift shops - will this apply to zoos I wonder? Surely with so many indoor places being permitted to open it must be time to allow zoos to allow visitors in, albeit under strict guidelines? Indeed, Chester have already stated their plan to re-open will not include their retail outlets, yet this latest information seems to suggest that they may be allowed to re-open before the zoo itself! Utterly, utterly baffling stuff.
Click to expand...

In the Netherlands, as in the UK, zoos were never forced to close by the government (they closed nonetheless as there was no way to remain open). That meant in the Netherlands that zoos were thus also not part of any of the reopening communications from the government. This was a very confusing situation, but it meant in the end that zoos have mostly opened by now, in line with their communications with local government bodies. I assume the same will apply to UK zoos, but the government should clarify that asap.
 
Maguari said:
I think until at least Thursday we won't really know what will and won't be included - as last time, they are dragging the announcements out over a period of time rather than announcing all the changes at once. It would seem very strange if you can go and hang out indoors in Meadowhall or Lakeside but not outside in YWP or Colchester Zoo, though...
Click to expand...

It would certainly be strange - but so much about the government's handling of this situation has been strange that I wouldn't rule it out... it still melts my brain that garden centres have re-opened before zoos!

As for the comment that zoos were technically not forced to close, I think we all know that was a feeble attempt to free the government of any responsibility for zoos losing revenue, and clarification is definitely needed on when they can re-open... or should I say, when the public are allowed to visit them! A few places seem to be mentioning July, including Banham & Suffolk in the article a few posts up - but I hope we'll see at least some of them open in June. Presumably judging by their recent announcements, Chester and a few others are probably ready to go once they're given the green light.
 
Maguari said:
I think until at least Thursday we won't really know what will and won't be included - as last time, they are dragging the announcements out over a period of time rather than announcing all the changes at once. It would seem very strange if you can go and hang out indoors in Meadowhall or Lakeside but not outside in YWP or Colchester Zoo, though...
Click to expand...

Probably announced it early as a distraction tactic to other things going on there atm! So the detail was never ready.

They announced relaxation of measures and then gave details the next day.
 
Sand Cat said:
It would certainly be strange - but so much about the government's handling of this situation has been strange that I wouldn't rule it out... it still melts my brain that garden centres have re-opened before zoos!

As for the comment that zoos were technically not forced to close, I think we all know that was a feeble attempt to free the government of any responsibility for zoos losing revenue, and clarification is definitely needed on when they can re-open... or should I say, when the public are allowed to visit them! A few places seem to be mentioning July, including Banham & Suffolk in the article a few posts up - but I hope we'll see at least some of them open in June. Presumably judging by their recent announcements, Chester and a few others are probably ready to go once they're given the green light.
Click to expand...

The result of the lobbying is that there will be no change. The 22 May GOV.UK update was that travel to 'private or ticketed attractions' ( a new definition) was banned. The Within 24 hours, the 23 May update then permitted travel to 'land open for the public benefit, where numbers may be controlled by membership or ticketing' (another new definition), appearing clearly to contradict the previous days update.

We now have confirmation that zoos are NOT 'land open for the public benefit, where numbers may be controlled by membership or ticketing', but remain firmly in the same category as wholly indoor leisure and hospitality, with a presumed opening date of July 4th.

This leaves us with an expected date for zoos to re-open of 4th July, and just 8 weeks of potential income before the schools go back and we enter the next off-season. Last winter it started to rain on 21st September and did not stop until two days be Boris' speech on 23 March. This means that there is very little time to recoup income this year, and we will probably not be able to give the 'members and season ticket holders week', prior to full opening we had planned.

Plans are well advanced here (and will be everywhere else I guess), with the physical and administrative issues involved, and our on-line ticketing system has been tested today. If there are enough people made redundant after their furlough and students looking for just 8 weeks of work, we may be able to offer some form of basic take-out catering; but we hope to be able to detail the plans a little more after the weekend.
 
Last edited:
Andrew Swales said:
The result of the lobbying is that there will be no change. The 22 May GOV.UK update was that travel to 'private or ticketed attractions' ( a new definition) was banned. Then, within 24 hours, the 23 May update permitted travel to 'land open for the public benefit, where numbers may be controlled by membership or ticketing' (another new definition), appearing clearly to contradict the previous days update.

We now have confirmation that zoos are NOT 'land open for the public benefit, where numbers may be controlled by membership or ticketing', but remain firmly in the same category as wholly indoor leisure and direct-contact hospitality such as hotels, with a presumed opening date of July 4th.

This leaves us with an expected date for zoos to re-open of 4th July, and just 8 weeks of potential income before the schools go back and we enter the next off-season. Last winter it started to rain on 21st September and did not stop until two days before Boris' speech on 23 March. This means that there is very little time to recoup income this year, and we will probably not be able to give the 'members and season ticket holders week', prior to full opening we had planned.

Plans are well advanced here (and will be everywhere else I guess), with the physical and administrative issues involved, and our on-line ticketing system has been tested today. If there are enough people made redundant after their furlough and students looking for just 8 weeks of work, we may be able to offer some form of basic take-out catering; but we hope to be able to detail the plans a little more after the weekend.
Click to expand...

A couple of typos above, which the cut-off would not let me edit - but it does look as though they will not ever actually use that dreaded four-letter word 'zoos'; the civil servants and lawyers seem to be coming up with these new contradictory definitions instead, each of which keeps everyone guessing and plays for more time. Soon be Christmas, there cant be many shopping days now... at least the shops will be open, even if no-one has any money to spend.
 
Last edited:
lintworm said:
In the Netherlands, as in the UK, zoos were never forced to close by the government (they closed nonetheless as there was no way to remain open). That meant in the Netherlands that zoos were thus also not part of any of the reopening communications from the government.
Click to expand...
Yes, the same - but it has gone further in the UK. Central Government is creating new definitions 'private or ticketed attraction', now 'land maintained for the public benefit, and controlled by member-ship or tickets' etc, which did not ever exist before, and which are quite contradictory. They then leak it out that zoos don't fit into any of the new categories, without officially mentioning anything. It is against this back-ground that we have to advertise for and interview the seasonal staff needed for just a few weeks before next autumn starts...

lintworm said:
This was a very confusing situation, but it meant in the end that zoos have mostly opened by now, in line with their communications with local government bodies. I assume the same will apply to UK zoos, but the government should clarify that asap.
Click to expand...
The same will not apply in the UK. Our 'local government body' simply repeats what is freely available to the public on GOV.UK (including confirmation that zoos never had to close in the first place) and then says that they will not take any legal responsibility for their written comments and that we must check the situation with our own solicitors.
 
Andrew Swales said:
The result of the lobbying is that there will be no change. The 22 May GOV.UK update was that travel to 'private or ticketed attractions' ( a new definition) was banned. The Within 24 hours, the 23 May update then permitted travel to 'land open for the public benefit, where numbers may be controlled by membership or ticketing' (another new definition), appearing clearly to contradict the previous days update.

We now have confirmation that zoos are NOT 'land open for the public benefit, where numbers may be controlled by membership or ticketing', but remain firmly in the same category as wholly indoor leisure and hospitality, with a presumed opening date of July 4th.

This leaves us with an expected date for zoos to re-open of 4th July, and just 8 weeks of potential income before the schools go back and we enter the next off-season. Last winter it started to rain on 21st September and did not stop until two days be Boris' speech on 23 March. This means that there is very little time to recoup income this year, and we will probably not be able to give the 'members and season ticket holders week', prior to full opening we had planned.

Plans are well advanced here (and will be everywhere else I guess), with the physical and administrative issues involved, and our on-line ticketing system has been tested today. If there are enough people made redundant after their furlough and students looking for just 8 weeks of work, we may be able to offer some form of basic take-out catering; but we hope to be able to detail the plans a little more after the weekend.
Click to expand...

So car showrooms and museum gift shops can open yet zoos can't? What nonsense! This just gets worse and worse. A zoo surely fits that definition you mentioned to a tee, yet they're not included in that category?

Its sad, because personally I'm a very cautious person and am scared of doing most things, but visiting a zoo with plenty of open space is something I was actually feeling happier about, especially with all of the good measures in place that Chester, for example, had announced. Indeed, they had mentioned that their retail outlets would probably remain closed when they finally do re-open, presumably because they sensibly think that indoor spaces full of people are not as safe as the zoo itself... yet other attractions can open their (often very small) gift shops next month!

Furious doesn't begin to cover how I feel about this, so I can't imagine how people who run and maintain zoos must be feeling!
 
Sand Cat said:
So car showrooms and museum gift shops can open yet zoos can't? What nonsense!
Click to expand...
Yes (but as LRP says by technicality) and Yes - although in the first case, as you are still not allowed to travel to a 'ticketed or private attraction', (regardless of whether you actually buy a ticket or not, or even if it is actually selling tickets or not), I can't see how you would get to the museum.
Sand Cat said:
This just gets worse and worse. A zoo surely fits that definition you mentioned to a tee, yet they're not included in that category?
Click to expand...
Yes, and No.
Sand Cat said:
Its sad, because personally I'm a very cautious person and am scared of doing most things, but visiting a zoo with plenty of open space is something I was actually feeling happier about, especially with all of the good measures in place that Chester, for example, had announced. Indeed, they had mentioned that their retail outlets would probably remain closed when they finally do re-open, presumably because they sensibly think that indoor spaces full of people are not as safe as the zoo itself... yet other attractions can open their (often very small) gift shops next month!

Furious doesn't begin to cover how I feel about this, so I can't imagine how people who run and maintain zoos must be feeling!
Click to expand...

It is sad. Because of the obvious and irrefutable logic of what you say, and what have been done in pretty much every other country, we must assume that either the lobbying in the UK has been quite inept, or there are simply not enough people employed in the zoo industry for it to be a sector of notice, concern or relevance for the Government. I have said before that they just seem to view us as a revenue source to fund other things, so we really shouldn't be surprised... just saddened.
 
Last edited:
littleRedPanda said:
Maybe chatters should submit a question to the daily conference on the matter of zoos? How about summing up our concerns and confusion and everyone submitting the same text.

@Sand Cat Zoos can open, but we cannot visit them from what I understand.

Ask a question at the next coronavirus press conference
Click to expand...

A neat, concise and simple question would be -
why is it legal to travel to and visit a ticketed botanical garden,
and illegal to travel to and visit a ticketed zoological garden ?

edit - I've just asked exactly this, using the link you listed, from my private email not the zoo one. I opted for the question to be read out to the Minister. The Cabinet Office will contact me within 3 days to tell me if it has been 'chosen' or not.
edit - I missed off the 'garden' in error, sorry. The activities now permitted in the 23rd May update, are 'gardens and land maintained for public access, which can control their numbers by membership or selling tickets'
 
Last edited:
I can only assume that they're covering all shops/retail outlets as a single 'unit', for simplicity sake, irrespective of whether those shops are located in places which are open or not.

The news from the museum sector is that they won't be opening up again until at least July, but possibly August or September. Open air museums (for example Beamish, Black Country Living, Ironbridge, Gressenhall etc), may be able to argue for an earlier re-opening, but the vast majority won't be re-opening any time soon
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top