UK zoos & lockdown going forward...

[amur leopard]

Is this a good time for me to say I don't think he's all that great!?

I can't help but think prominent people like that don't want to endorse zoos too much for fear of backlash, as a lot of people who are interested in wildlife are so strongly anti-zoo.

Whilst I think his decision to not support zoos is the wrong one, I hardly think you can deny the impact he has had on the last few generations! In the UK, he is easily the best known 'wildlife documentary guy' and has inspired thousands of people of our and the last few generations to learn more about wildlife and to find out just how diverse and wonderful nature is. This is not to be taken lightly.

 

[Maguari]

I think we should maybe be careful in expecting a lot of him. He's been vocal in support of zoos previously but he's human and in his mid-90s!

 

[Gigit]

The MPs for Torbay and Totnes have sent a joint letter to DEFRA about Paignton Zoo:

Paignton Zoo and Living Coasts
We are writing to raise the position of the urgent need for either a further package of financial support or an ability to re-open in the near future for Paignton Zoo.

From speaking with Simon Tonge, the Executive Director of the Wild Planet Trust which runs Torquay’s Living Coasts Aquatic Zoo and Paignton Zoo, they fully appreciated the reasons for being required to close back in March, not least as case numbers escalated across Devon and Cornwall. The Government is rightly being guided by scientific and medical advice in terms of when it is right to re-open businesses and facilities under social distancing rules. Yet, as a range of outdoor environments begin to re-open, including garden centres and nature reserves with animal collections, and cases are at very low levels in our region (only 1 confirmed Covid-19 case in Torbay over the last 3 weeks and only 1 in the whole of Devon and Cornwall yesterday) they are querying when they may be able to re-open, based on social distancing guidelines.

We appreciate a more indoor environment like an aquarium presents challenges in terms of social distancing, yet a location like Paignton Zoo has more in common with a larger park, especially if indoor facilities like the café and some indoor exhibits like the reptile house remain closed.

The Government’s support packages have assisted the Wild Planet Trust, not least the ability to furlough staff and the CBILS loan scheme, yet the requirements of animal welfare and maintaining the Zoo’s key conservation work mean a large set of core running costs are inevitable each month. The recent package of support for Zoos, whilst welcome, was not enough to make a serious dent in the costs of running a larger collection like the one present at Paignton Zoo.
We appreciate there are many demands on resources in terms of which
businesses/facilities should be allowed to re-open, whilst keeping the Covid-19 virus under control. We hope it is soon possible to allow Paignton Zoo to re-open under social distancing, at least as part of a potential partial re-opening of the tourism industry in early July. If this is not possible, without further support we do fear organisations which are effectively acting as a modern day Noah’s Ark for critically endangered species could be another victim of this pandemic.

 

[Crowthorne]

I think we should maybe be careful in expecting a lot of him. He's been vocal in support of zoos previously but he's human and in his mid-90s!

I was going to say something similar. He's in his 90s, and part of the Shielded population as a vulnerable person. Even before Covid, he was starting to take a step back from public life, and letting the younger generation of presenters take the stage.

On Social Media, Dr Ben Garrod and Jimmy Doherty, among others, are both supporting zoos.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Given the news today that the government aims to get pubs and restaurants opening again for 22 June, the agenda behind the zoo situation is now even more ridiculously-transparent in my opinion......

 

[Brum]

...Jimmy Doherty, among others, are both supporting zoos.

Got to be said that Jimmy definitely has a vested interest in zoos, especially since he wants his own to prosper.

As for Sir David, well yeah, he's in his mid nineties and really can't be expected to start making speeches from his own home. And I'm not 100% certain that he'd be able to pull off a professional looking video under his own guidance, and the British public are fickle... A badly produced video of him may have a negative impact. For an example "Look at the old man saying we need zoo and he can't even use his phone properly..." That might be a bit too cynical of me, but I lack faith in the general public's opinion on zoos on particular.

 

[Andrew Swales]

Got to be said that Jimmy definitely has a vested interest in zoos, especially since he wants his own to prosper.

As for Sir David, well yeah, he's in his mid nineties and really can't be expected to start making speeches from his own home. And I'm not 100% certain that he'd be able to pull off a professional looking video under his own guidance, and the British public are fickle... A badly produced video of him may have a negative impact. For an example "Look at the old man saying we need zoo and he can't even use his phone properly..." That might be a bit too cynical of me, but I lack faith in the general public's opinion on zoos on particular.

I think the public have been pretty sympathetic towards badly produced home videos, and a short statement via his agent woudn't have been too taxing even for a 90 year old in lockdown. The death of the institutions with which his career was so closely tied, would not be much of a legacy..

I was going to say something similar. He's in his 90s, and part of the Shielded population as a vulnerable person. Even before Covid, he was starting to take a step back from public life, and letting the younger generation of presenters take the stage. On Social Media, Dr Ben Garrod and Jimmy Doherty, among others, are both supporting zoos.

Which others...? Have the new 'crop' which make at least part their living from fronting zoo programmes, been public in their support, or are they silent too...?

 

[amur leopard]

As for Sir David, well yeah, he's in his mid nineties and really can't be expected to start making speeches from his own home. And I'm not 100% certain that he'd be able to pull off a professional looking video under his own guidance, and the British public are fickle... A badly produced video of him may have a negative impact. For an example "Look at the old man saying we need zoo and he can't even use his phone properly..." That might be a bit too cynical of me, but I lack faith in the general public's opinion on zoos on particular.

Good example, although I think the general consensus in my generation (which is probably the age group you think would comment on phone usage etc. ; 15-16 yr old boys) is certainly that he is quite an inspirational figure. I think part of what you say could be turned on its head - I know that many of my mates would find his message to be all the more powerful if it were to be punctuated by tech issues because of the commitment it demonstrates.

However, to some extent, it is a sensible decision. In this time of division and rifts in society, where people are getting further and further apart despite globalisation and the illusion that we are coming closer together, the last thing he would want is to cause a division among wildlife lovers.

 

[Crowthorne]

Which others...? Have the new 'crop' which make at least part their living from fronting zoo programmes, been public in their support, or are they silent too...?

Are you never satisfied? I give two examples, to show that there has been support, and you just ask for more?

 

[Andrew Swales]

Are you never satisfied? I give two examples, to show that there has been support, and you just ask for more?

It was YOU who said among others - all I wondered was if you knew which others...
Brum commented about one, and in my ignorance I had never heard of the other, and had to Google..

WE are having to deal with a confused public. They dont know what is going on and cannot understand it. We are not in a position to help them as we dont know ourselves, and the feeling of impotence when your life's work and peoples livelihoods are at stake, is pretty over-whelming at times. The quest for information is continuous and the tone of your reply is insulting.

The commonest questions from our visitors are -
'when are you re-opening, and why are you still closed '
followed by, this week -
'why are you asking us to write to our MPs and sign petitions, when the Government has given you money'
plus a trickle of others, like -
'if it is so serious, why is no-one famous supporting you'
Which was why it was in my mind, when Leone posted.

 

[Crowthorne]

It was YOU who said among others - all I wondered was if you knew which others...
Brum commented about one, and in my ignorance I had never heard of the other, and had to Google..

Yes, I did say "among others"; it showed I had done a bit of research, but didn't feel the need to be making lists. Everyone is free to do their own research.

The way your post was worded didn't come across as a genuine question, it came across as demanding.

 

[Andrew Swales]

Yes, I did say "among others"; it showed I had done a bit of research, but didn't feel the need to be making lists. Everyone is free to do their own research.

The way your post was worded didn't come across as a genuine question, it came across as demanding.

My question was an attempt to do just that - my own 'research'; and I would still be interested to know the answer, if anyone else does. Although, there seems to be plenty of lists on here on other subjects, I personally think this one is the most important we face at the moment.

 

[Jonfla]

The Guardian have picked the story up, but other media now giving bulk of output to "Black Lives " protests. Rotten timing.

The Mail and Telegraph have picked up the story for tomorrow.

 

[Andrew Swales]

We have had the weekly change in legal definitions. Last week in the UK, a zoo was legally a collection of non-domestic animals open to the public for 8 or more days in any calendar year. Any such establishment needed to be licensed under the Zoo Licencing Act. This definition has now changed to the following:

'Zoos, including safari parks, must close under the Regulations. A zoo is a business whose main activity is keeping animals not normally domesticated in England for exhibition to the public. Other businesses that keep and exhibit those types of animals, for example nature reserves, may open. They should ensure that areas where these types of animals are exhibited are restricted where possible. All possible steps should be taken to reduce risk of visitors gathering at particular animal or other attractions in the establishment. As with other visitor attractions, indoor areas must remain closed'.

Of course there are NO other businesses that keep and exhibit them, as ALL are classed as zoos under the Zoo Licencing Act, and have to be inspected and licensed under it.

This specifically contradicts what we were told in writing by the BIAZA office, namely that some of their full Zoo Licence holding members, the English Wildfowl Trust centres, had specific-site-permissions which allowed them to open the 'nature reserve' parts of their sites, but that they were prohibited from opening the 'zoo parts'. This now appears to have been wrong.

Coronavirus (COVID-19): advice on accessing green spaces safely

So - from Wednesday you can to Slimbridge - as you would not be interested in their Flamingos, and would walk straight past them, without lingering - but you cant go to Hamerton because you would be interested in our Flamingos, and would stop to look at them.

How the hell do we explain that one to our visitors...? OR, to our creditors, who we could be starting to pay...

 

[TriUK]

We have had the weekly change in legal definitions. Last week in the UK, a zoo was legally a collection of non-domestic animals open to the public for 8 or more days in any calendar year. Any such establishment needed to be licensed under the Zoo Licencing Act. This definition has now changed to the following:

'Zoos, including safari parks, must close under the Regulations. A zoo is a business whose main activity is keeping animals not normally domesticated in England for exhibition to the public. Other businesses that keep and exhibit those types of animals, for example nature reserves, may open. They should ensure that areas where these types of animals are exhibited are restricted where possible. All possible steps should be taken to reduce risk of visitors gathering at particular animal or other attractions in the establishment. As with other visitor attractions, indoor areas must remain closed'.

Of course there are NO other businesses that keep and exhibit them, as ALL are classed as zoos under the Zoo Licencing Act, and have to be inspected and licensed under it.

This specifically contradicts what we were told in writing by the BIAZA office, namely that some of their full Zoo Licence holding members, the English Wildfowl Trust centres, had specific-site-permissions which allowed them to open the 'nature reserve' parts of their sites, but that they were prohibited from opening the 'zoo parts'. This now appears to have been wrong.

Coronavirus (COVID-19): advice on accessing green spaces safely

So - from Wednesday you can to Slimbridge - as you would not be interested in their Flamingos, and would walk straight past them, without lingering - but you cant go to Hamerton because you would be interested in our Flamingos, and would stop to look at them.

How the hell do we explain that one to our visitors...? OR, to our creditors, who we could be starting to pay...

It’s nuts!!

 

[Pertinax]

....English Wildfowl Trust centres, had specific-site-permissions which allowed them to open the 'nature reserve' parts of their sites, but that they were prohibited from opening the 'zoo parts'. This now appears to have been wrong.

From reading their guidelines to visitors in advance of their opening, it seems very clear the whole of Slimbridge is opening, not just the 'nature reserve' part.

 

[Andrew Swales]

Yes, indeed - this fits with the new definition of Slimbridge now being a 'nature reserve' and not a 'zoo', and presumably they wont need a Zoo Licence any longer... ?! Nature Reserves with exotic animals, quite separate from zoos legally - did not exist until two days ago.
This completely contradicts the formal written confirmation we had from the BIAZA office, as I detailed above - and of course the ZLA which still classes them as a 'zoo' and not a 'nature reserve'.

 

[Fallax]

So with the parliament debate in a few days, are we feeling hopeful?

 

[Andrew Swales]

So with the parliament debate in a few days, are we feeling hopeful?

Adjournment Debates are pretty low-key it seems. Just half an hour at the end of each days business, with no vote just a chance for a back-bench MP to ask questions of the Minister. That's about it...
Adjournment debates

 

[Jennings]

'Zoos, including safari parks, must close under the Regulations. A zoo is a business whose main activity is keeping animals not normally domesticated in England for exhibition to the public. Other businesses that keep and exhibit those types of animals, for example nature reserves, may open. They should ensure that areas where these types of animals are exhibited are restricted where possible. All possible steps should be taken to reduce risk of visitors gathering at particular animal or other attractions in the establishment. As with other visitor attractions, indoor areas must remain closed'.

No doubt Port Lympne, much of which can only be accessed by visitors on the back of a lorry, will presently be classed as a reserve and allowed to open. It isn't a zoo, you see, but a place where people are taken on tours of fields which just happen to have exotic animals in them.