Food Outlets and Picnic Tables at UK Zoos During Covid

Andrew Swales · 19 Jun 2020

pipaluk said:
The problem is laws are open to interpretation and your local authority seems to be taking it to the absolute letter!

If you're not eating what you've purchased on the premises, it is takeaway, but most sensible people would treat the 'premises' as being the outlet where it was bought, not the zoo itself, which Huntingdon and South Cambs councils don't seem to be able to grasp!

We'll see - we've removed the tables today 'adjacent' to the take-away - using common sense, rather than any formal definition of 'adjacent' of which there appears to be none; even if this is not being enforced in Cheshire or Kent for example. It is a little arbitrary anyway, as at current footfall, take-away spend is less than 50% of the cost of providing the product, and probably only 10%-15% of what the Coffee-Shop would normally be taking from the same footfall. So we will see what the weekend and better weather next week bring, before deciding whether to continue with the service and the staffing...

TeaLovingDave said:
Certainly seems like that is precisely what is going on......

Yes - but the law clearly states that all areas adjacent to the take-away are classed as part of the take-away premises.
(3) For the purposes of paragraph (1)(a)(ii) and (b), an area adjacent to the premises of the business where seating is made available for customers of the business (whether or not by the business) is to be treated as part of the premises of that business.
This is what our LA is complying with and apparently (at least) Chester and Kent are ignoring. We will see what happens now we have removed, and confirmed thus, the benches from the 'adjacent' area; which was their written requirement.

The South Cambs approach of stopping anyone from sitting down on site, does not fit into the regulations so far as we can see, and presumably includes sitting down for a rest if you are elderly or physically impaired, or even sitting down on a toilet seat...

As I said above, it is a good job these people were not responsible for giving us permission to open in the first place..!

Quincey · 19 Jun 2020

Hoo Farm have just posted the following on Facebook:

"
A huge thank you to everyone who has visited us already this week. It's been amazing seeing you all and we've had some fantastic comments.

We have a quick update on our COVID-19 measures, please do give these a read through before you visit as they will affect your visit.

The one measure that has changed this week is that we have now been informed that we are able to open a picnic area. However, please be aware that we are NOT allowed to provide picnic tables so please bring your own seating/picnic blanket."

Hoo Farm Animal Kingdom

Andrew Swales · 19 Jun 2020

Quincey said:
Hoo Farm have just posted the following on Facebook:

"
A huge thank you to everyone who has visited us already this week. It's been amazing seeing you all and we've had some fantastic comments.

We have a quick update on our COVID-19 measures, please do give these a read through before you visit as they will affect your visit.

The one measure that has changed this week is that we have now been informed that we are able to open a picnic area. However, please be aware that we are NOT allowed to provide picnic tables so please bring your own seating/picnic blanket."

Hoo Farm Animal Kingdom

Thanks - this does look like another small 'zoo' not being allowed to do what the large ones are doing, which does now seem to be a deliberate trend. This discrimination does feel to now be 'business interruption due to the actions of any authorised' body', which is the definition used by our insurers - and not directly linked to the Pandemic itself. Another job for next week... one of these days, I'll have the chance to do some animal work...

LucasRyan · 19 Jun 2020

London Zoo has outdoor picnic tables available, spaced 2m apart and "cleaned regularly" and sell food/drinks from outdoor kiosks. Sad it is another thing open to interpretation to local councils.

Crowthorne · 19 Jun 2020

Highland Wildlife Park have posted photos of their new info boards, showing picnic benches will be spaced 2m apart, and requesting one family per bench

Highland Wildlife Park, Kincraig

Kifaru Bwana · 19 Jun 2020

LucasRyan said:
London Zoo has outdoor picnic tables available, spaced 2m apart and "cleaned regularly" and sell food/drinks from outdoor kiosks. Sad it is another thing open to interpretation to local councils.

I do not see why this cannot happen everywhere! What is the problem?

Just a personal observation: I must say I do hate the term social distancing, better usage term would for obvious reasons be physical distancing. Unless your are anti-S, that is .... (LOL).

Zia · 19 Jun 2020

@Andrew Swales have the LA actively said people need to go to their cars or is this how your health and safety consultants have interpreted it?

If it is the former and in the absence of a 'official' definition of adjacent I think the good old fashioned definition of "next to or adjoining" should be employed. Obviously if it is not proving financially worth it then it is a moot point - and as you say once the food & drink establishments open it will all change again.

We're off to Howletts tomorrow so I can take a couple of pictures of their set up if you would like me to.

Andrew Swales · 19 Jun 2020

Zia said:
@Andrew Swales have the LA actively said people need to go to their cars or is this how your health and safety consultants have interpreted it?

If it is the former and in the absence of a 'official' definition of adjacent I think the good old fashioned definition of "next to or adjoining" should be employed. Obviously if it is not proving financially worth it then it is a moot point - and as you say once the food & drink establishments open it will all change again.

We're off to Howletts tomorrow so I can take a couple of pictures of their set up if you would like me to.

Our LA sent us the points 4.1 to 4.3 I listed above, and demanded that the 'adjacent' tables were removed. We complied with their demands before opening today and removed those which we considered 'adjacent' using common sense and pretty much your definition as above. So we will see... Without the tables, today's takings were even lower than yesterdays, so it does looks as though our LA's approach will penalise us financially compared to other zoos which are allowed to have tables next to their kiosks. Whether we can put enough data together to support an insurance claim, is another matter.... but yes please, I would be very interested to receive any such info from other zoos.

Andrew Swales · 19 Jun 2020

Kifaru Bwana said:
I do not see why this cannot happen everywhere! What is the problem?

The problem is that currently it is illegal in the UK for a food take-away to have tables and/or seats next ('adjacent') to it. This is quite clear.
Our issue is that for the Government (Local and/or National) to allow Chester (and others) to break this law, whilst requiring Hamerton to comply with it (which appears to be the current position) is discriminatory.

SMR · 19 Jun 2020

Andrew Swales said:
Our issue is that for the Government (Local and/or National) to allow Chester (and others) to break this law, whilst requiring Hamerton to comply with it (which appears to be the current position) is discriminatory.

Have you thought about contacting Cheshire West and Chester (referred to as "quack" locally) and asking them to detail what it is that Chester are doing that allows them to have picnic benches next to their kiosks?

Andrew Swales · 19 Jun 2020

SMR said:
Have you thought about contacting Cheshire West and Chester (referred to as "quack" locally) and asking them to detail what it is that Chester are doing that allows them to have picnic benches next to their kiosks?

No, not yet. This has only come up in the last 24 hours, so little chance to deal with anything other than the mechanics as yet, especially as our secretary is working from home because she has children who are not in school and nursery. We will email them next week.

Kifaru Bwana · 20 Jun 2020

Andrew Swales said:
The problem is that currently it is illegal in the UK for a food take-away to have tables and/or seats next ('adjacent') to it. This is quite clear.
Our issue is that for the Government (Local and/or National) to allow Chester (and others) to break this law, whilst requiring Hamerton to comply with it (which appears to be the current position) is discriminatory.

AS, I did get that on the first go. No need to elaborate further.

My quote is merely to address the fact that I do not see an issue when the 1.5 / 2.0 m spacing is adopted that any zoological establishment can serve refreshments and snacks on the go. It would boost catering sales and income for the establishments involved. Well, the Govt. policies on zoos and indoor educational/cultural establishments are a total no-brainer to me.

BTW: We in the Netherlands now operate as per the above. Zoos and museums are open and have limited entry capacities and time slots. You can eat on the go and some indoors have spaced out tables where one can sit and eat a meal or do a drink. No problemo!

Andrew Swales · 20 Jun 2020

Kifaru Bwana said:
AS, I did get that on the first go. No need to elaborate further.

My quote is merely to address the fact that I do not see an issue when the 1.5 / 2.0 m spacing is adopted that any zoological establishment can serve refreshments and snacks on the go. It would boost catering sales and income for the establishments involved. Well, the Govt. policies on zoos and indoor educational/cultural establishments are a total no-brainer to me.

BTW: We in the Netherlands now operate as per the above. Zoos and museums are open and have limited entry capacities and time slots. You can eat on the go and some indoors have spaced out tables where one can sit and eat a meal or do a drink. No problemo!

My point was, and continues to be, the Government discrimination shown in the UK. I assume whatever the rules are in NL (and regardless of whether you agree with them or not) they are being applied equally to all zoos? or indeed any other sector? - or are some being allowed to break the law, like they are over here? Large influencial bodies with political support (albeit late coming, once the 'band-wagon' was already rolling) are being given financial advantage over smaller ones with such.
If we have to remove our benches, then Chester should have to, as well - simples...

Kifaru Bwana · 21 Jun 2020

In the Netherlands, rules are for all zoological facilities in equal measure, there is no favouritism whatsoever. Government guidelines are thankfully now not as diffuse as before and in most zoos now open the routine has set in. Local authorities do have a say and frequently do enforce more specific guidelines in cooperation with local zoo management. I have not experienced any issues to date at all. It is worth remembering that all zoos I do know operate on specific time slots and specific day/time entry only.

Cultural establishments like museums here that are mostly indoors have some more stringent guidelines and I have personally have had experience of 3 sits where a restricted access policy and physical distancing are in force and working very well and where these rules are respected by most, if not all visitors (I tend to think your average into it museum visitor is more observing of social rules than elsewhere TBH).

When considering how things "work" in the UK, I do think the rules of "engagement" handed down by Govt. are diffuse, flawed and rather inconsequential as well as sometimes downright anti-zoo / economics in general. This more than anything to my mind is the real issue and which could and should be challenged at all cost.

On the original topic we were discussing of being able to serve snacks and drinks on site I continue to see no issues for having zoos allowed to do so and open when 1.5 / 2.0 meter distancing can be enforced at tables. With restricted admittance and time slots/specific dates web operated entry tickets, zoos would be perfectly able to serve more than the odd one out sandwich or cup of tea on the go. Handwashing machines on site and at various locations is another thing that works quite well. Well, I can now again experience when seating inside or outside a restaurant or cafe around here in the Netherlands too (all when adopting a full set of government directed strict CoVid19 guidelines). So, where is the problem then (for the UK Govt. to pretend otherwise)!

Zia · 21 Jun 2020

@Andrew Swales - pictures from Howletts as promised. Lots of picnic tables all over the park and directly adjacent to the food outlets. The descriptions in the gallery give an idea which outlets are which. Worth noting that the outlet next to the elephant enclosure (second shot below) has seating behind it also in an area enclosed by a low fence that leads off from the building itself i.e. definitely adjacent. You can see it in the picture to the left of the building. Hope that helps - feel free to use them for anything you need to.