Bullens animals

Z

zoofan12

Member
Hi all

Been looking up information about the alleged big cat on the prowl around NSW. Came accross some information with suggestions that a big cat may have escaped from a circus or private collection.

Thought you guys might have some information/theories on the prescence of big cats. Do you think they exist?

Related to that, is there a good chance that the big cat/s may have escaped from Bullens Animal World or African Lion Safari? When were they operating out there? Was it the 1960s to early 90s? What animals/if any do they still hold out there? Are they required to keep records like public zoos? Where would the public be able to access that? What are their longer term plans re their animals? Anyone got a bit of insider knowledge?

Very interested in hearing peoples thoughts. Thanks
 
zoofan12 said:
Hi all

Been looking up information about the alleged big cat on the prowl around NSW. Came accross some information with suggestions that a big cat may have escaped from a circus or private collection.

Thought you guys might have some information/theories on the prescence of big cats. Do you think they exist?

Related to that, is there a good chance that the big cat/s may have escaped from Bullens Animal World or African Lion Safari? When were they operating out there? Was it the 1960s to early 90s? What animals/if any do they still hold out there? Are they required to keep records like public zoos? Where would the public be able to access that? What are their longer term plans re their animals? Anyone got a bit of insider knowledge?

Very interested in hearing peoples thoughts. Thanks
Click to expand...


Ho hum - here we go again.:(

All licensed holders of exotic animals are required to keep records of those animals and are subject to audits. That includes private people, zoos, circuses - the lot.


For decades there have been stories of exotic big cats on the prowl in Australia. Some of these cats have been "prowling" for so many years that they would have set longevity records if they truly existed! It is significant that many such "sightings" occur after public house closing time! The sources of these prowling cats are usually suggested to be escapes from circuses or private zoos - never public zoos. Funny that. As Ara posted only a couple of days ago, there is rumoured to be a big cat in his part of Sydney. Closest zoo - Taronga. But nobody would suggest that a cat would have escaped from Taronga - it's an "A grade" zoo.:D

The truth is that just about every zoo and circus, irrespective of it's ownership can have an animal escape. It is equally true that it is very, very difficult to hide such an incident from the regulators. I did a fairly detailed exercise on this subject some years ago and discovered that the only known escaped exotic mammal that had never been accounted for was a male Rhesus Macaque that had escaped from a rodeo near Rolleston and was possibly sighted some weeks later near Blackwater but has never been seen again.

NO other "sighting" has ever been proven. You may remember, a year or so ago, that Channel 7's highly reputable, fact finding program "Sunrise":( got a lot of mileage out of a supposed black panther that was shot in Gippsland. When the DNA evidence revealed that the unfortunate corpse was that of a domestic moggy [OK -it was a big one] the sensational story faded away very quickly!

With regard to the Bullen's animals [or anybody else's privately owned property] why on earth would the public be allowed to have access to their details? From time to time on this forum we see people asking for "insider knowledge" about other peoples business. If you really think that YOU have a right to know - ask the people concerned directly. Any other "knowledge" that you get will just be gossip and speculation.
 
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What a coincidence!

There must be something in the air tonight!:confused:

The Toowoomba office of the QPWS has had a report of a lion sighted on Cunningham's Gap over the weekend!!!!

It was as high [the lion, not the sighter] as the bonnet of a car, tawny in colour and very fast.

Naturally they wanted to know if I had done a recent roll call. All mine are present and accounted for, no circuses with lions currently in Queensland - wonder where it could have come from?

PS: Apparently it was sighted quite late at night!;)
 
Rhino escape

Steve Robinson said:
There must be something in the air tonight!:confused:
QUOTE]

Now A Rhinp escape at monarto!!

reads like it was something that could have turned very ugly.

Seems he went back home of choice at the end of the day as he usually would.
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As steve said it would be quite difficult for an escaped animal to go unknown to the authorities. You referred to the Bullen's animals. I'm sure that as soon as the first reports of big cat sightings were made the bullen's, and other private owners like circuses would have been the first contacted. If the cat exists and was an escapee we would probably know where it came from. With regards to privately owned exotics. There is atleast one private zoo near sydney that keeps exotics and the species this place keeps is easily available on the internet (with pictures and some names) if you know where to look, but if I was to name who owned the property I would be guessing
 
In the UK, we have big cat sitings all over the country. Most occur in scotland, wales, the north-east, the south-east and devon. I believe that, at least some of, these cats do exist. Not least because i know someone who claims to have seen one but also because there is some proof. As well as numerous carcasses of livestock and deer being found with the hall-marks of a big cat kill (some were found up trees!), there was the lynx shot in norfolk in 1991 (it only came to light in 2003) and the puma skull found by a north devon farmer in 2005, plus, 7 jungle cats have been found, either sot or as road-kill. How did they get here? Well, for example, there was a shipment of cougars to exmoor zoo, in the 1980s i think, that never arrived...

Of course, some of the stories are absolute rubbsh. The case of the lion on dartmoor, for example. There were several spottings of a "lion" over a period of several months. Eventually, it was captured and turned out to be a stray alsatian which had long hair around its head making it look as though it had a mane.
 
The Beast of Bodmin Moor.....

redpanda said:
but also because there is some proof. As well as numerous carcasses of livestock and deer being found with the hall-marks of a big cat kill (some were found up trees!), there was the lynx shot in norfolk in 1991 (it only came to light in 2003) and the puma skull found by a north devon farmer in 2005, plus, 7 jungle cats have been found, either sot or as road-kill.
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Lynx and jungle cats could hardly carry a deer up a tree, and if the livestock you refer to are cattle, those species could not kill an adult cow or bull.

As for the skull that was found, along with dead carcasses with hall-marks of a cat - there was a time when crop circles were the 'proof' that we were being visited by aliens. And don't forget Piltdown Man.

Admittedly, I'm not in the UK so I can't really comment with any authority. But based on what you have said in your post, I choose to remain a sceptic.

:)

Hix
 
thorney_devil said:
I remember a few years back 3 Asian Elephants on some land near Warragamba Dam. Have no idea what it was for or who owned them any clues?
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Bullens's had a lion safari at warragamba. Also on a recent trip to sydney my mate was telling me (as we headed from richmond to wallacia) that he remembered seeing elephants camped on a block of land next to the main road. He was always told that one of the circuses was based there. not sure who they belonged to. it wasn't in warragamba or wallacia.
 
Steve Robinson said:
Ho hum - here we go again.:(

All licensed holders of exotic animals are required to keep records of those animals and are subject to audits. That includes private people, zoos, circuses - the lot.


For decades there have been stories of exotic big cats on the prowl in Australia. Some of these cats have been "prowling" for so many years that they would have set longevity records if they truly existed! It is significant that many such "sightings" occur after public house closing time! The sources of these prowling cats are usually suggested to be escapes from circuses or private zoos - never public zoos. Funny that. As Ara posted only a couple of days ago, there is rumoured to be a big cat in his part of Sydney. Closest zoo - Taronga. But nobody would suggest that a cat would have escaped from Taronga - it's an "A grade" zoo.:D

The truth is that just about every zoo and circus, irrespective of it's ownership can have an animal escape. It is equally true that it is very, very difficult to hide such an incident from the regulators. I did a fairly detailed exercise on this subject some years ago and discovered that the only known escaped exotic mammal that had never been accounted for was a male Rhesus Macaque that had escaped from a rodeo near Rolleston and was possibly sighted some weeks later near Blackwater but has never been seen again.

NO other "sighting" has ever been proven. You may remember, a year or so ago, that Channel 7's highly reputable, fact finding program "Sunrise":( got a lot of mileage out of a supposed black panther that was shot in Gippsland. When the DNA evidence revealed that the unfortunate corpse was that of a domestic moggy [OK -it was a big one] the sensational story faded away very quickly!

With regard to the Bullen's animals [or anybody else's privately owned property] why on earth would the public be allowed to have access to their details? From time to time on this forum we see people asking for "insider knowledge" about other peoples business. If you really think that YOU have a right to know - ask the people concerned directly. Any other "knowledge" that you get will just be gossip and speculation.
Click to expand...

I have often argued this same point myself. I have spent a lot of time in the Blue Mountains and I am sure you have all heard about the "Penrith / Lithgow / Hawkesbury / Mountains Panther". As I often remark to friends - These sightings date back 100 years - Unless a breeding pair escaped 100 years ago, SOMEHOW avoiding common sightings, apart from the odd vision here and there, managed to breed an ongoing cycle of cats in the area, SOMEHOW avoiding problems associated with a narrow gene pool to ensure their ongoing prosperity and also SOMEHOW managing not to decimate the native fauna, like so many other introduced species, then yeah, sure... it's completely possible ;) I believe there is a very slim chance of species that we are not aware of out there, but larger than life Panthers / big cats - I think not.
 
thorney_devil said:
I remember a few years back 3 Asian Elephants on some land near Warragamba Dam. Have no idea what it was for or who owned them any clues?
Click to expand...

HI
apparently, i think it is bullens ( the circus that owned the lion safari) still continues to keep exotic animals like tigers,lion, etc. they hold them over 2 properties. This is what my old tafe teacher has said, he worked at the baboon research facility next door. He was telling us storys of working there, and often mentioned bullens cats calling. Like the lions calling in the morning, feed the elephants when they were there once. He even told us the road it was on course people didnt believe that you could see the elephants from the road ( they were only there every so often). Apparently he was told that another person that lived near by had gotten animals of them, once they had all the right things ( this bit however is a little sketchy).
Any way that is what i have been told :)
 
Bullens hold their animals on one property and keep strict records.
The elephants you saw at Warragamba were the 3 girls belonging to Brenton Bullen and they reside at Australia zoo.

As for the big black cat theory? Well, anything's possible. Margolin (Notre Dame) had animals unaccounted for when he closed down.

At this stage I will believe in the big black cat theory when I see it for myself. :)
 
Tigress said:
Bullens hold their animals on one property and keep strict records.
The elephants you saw at Warragamba were the 3 girls belonging to Brenton Bullen and they reside at Australia zoo.

As for the big black cat theory? Well, anything's possible. Margolin (Notre Dame) had animals unaccounted for when he closed down.

At this stage I will believe in the big black cat theory when I see it for myself. :)
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Margolin... A name that sends shivers down my spine. I am not surprised that there were animals unaccounted for.
 
Maezyra said:
Margolin... A name that sends shivers down my spine. I am not surprised that there were animals unaccounted for.
Click to expand...

Can anyone point me in the direction of more information on Margolin? I've looked on the web and all I've found are references to Ron weasley!!
 
mazfc said:
Can anyone point me in the direction of more information on Margolin? I've looked on the web and all I've found are references to Ron weasley!!
Click to expand...
google Emmanuel Margolin and you'll find plenty.
 
They were all colourful charatcers at that time!

I used to regularly see the eles and camels on the Bullen's property. They had the African Lion Safari and Bullen's Animal World, and also had a 'circus on ice' which had a range of animals including South American sea lions travelling the country.

I can vouch for a bear escaping one of the facilities, but it was later dispatched of. Funny how they are always 'black panthers' that are apparently roaming the countryside.
 
I've just finished reading a book titled "Australian Big Cats - An Unnatural History Of Panthers" written by Michael Williams and Rebecca Lang, and I couldn't put it down!

Whether you are a believer or unbeliever in such things, the authors will really make you think about it. As I live in the north-western part of Sydney, that's the area most of interest to me. In the past 10 years or so there have been 335 reported sightings of what appears to be a panther (or panthers) in the Grose Vale - Richmond area, and in as close as Kenthurst. That's too many sightings for there not to be something to it. Many of these sightings were by normal people, farmers, truckies etc. and in some cases reported reluctantly due to fear of ridicule. There have also been large stock losses.

Most of the reports to government agencies were simply "filed away" and reluctantly provided to the authors of the book under Freedom of Information laws. The government's preferred line is that people have instead seen black dogs or ordinary feral cats, but as one government wildlife officer told the authors (off the record) "This thing is killing full grown goats and stashing them 10 metres off the ground in tree forks. I've never seen a dog or feral cat that can do that!"
 
Anything written by micheal Williams should be taken with a pinch of salt, he is prone to stretching the truth and inventing witnesses.... Just my opinion
 
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