Mixed species enclosures and other changes for Burgers Zoo

[Jarne]

I don't know how big the breeding facilities currently are, could you maybe show it somehow?

If you look up videos by Burgers' Zoo about the cheetah's you can get an idea of the facilities behind the scenes (a few small separation cages and at least two smaller behind the scenes pens, probably more). However you can't compare the needed size of the quiet current facilities behind the scenes to the size needed on-show. For example it's important that mothers and cubs can keep their distance from the public to avoid stress. I'd estimate you need to double or even triple the space currently on-show to replace the behind the scenes stuff.

Also: Cheeta

 

[Jarne]

Well, they do have greater prairie chickens in spain so that's good enough for me

Here's the new Safari plan: View attachment 458119

I'll see if I can translate the specific species list

Some more comments here.

The aardwolf and klipspringer would never actually happen with the current management seen as Burgers' is kinda anti-wild caught in most cases and both species have alternatives (striped and spotted hyena, dikdik and to a lesser extent red duiker).

I also doubt wether the combination of warthogs and gerenuks will end well. I always thought gerenuks to be stressy animals and their long legs will probably cause them to trip and fall over the holes dug by the warthogs. For breeding the warthogs it might also be needed to have a separate enclosure for the male, they at least separated him for some time when they had piglets in the past.

 

[Westcoastperson]

The old outback map that is somewhere in the thread is outdated, I've updated it since the first design would go right over the parking lot of the open air museum. The Australian birds from the current aviary (such as the kookaburra and pink cockatoo) will fly freely in the larger hall

View attachment 462447

Black swans can be open-air all they really need is a pond

 

[Jarne]

Black swans are indeed winter-hardy in the Netherlands to my knowledge. Some shelter however (a shed or some plants) and preferably an ice-free pond are the only things recommended, even for pinioned birds which have less isolation.

 

[Mr Gharial]

Black swans can be open-air all they really need is a pond

I think you misunderstood, the open air museum (Openlucht museum) is a huge museum shaped like a Dutch town in the middle ages. The first design for the outback hall went right over their parking lot. The New Guinea and Tasmania house should hopefully be small enough to not interfere

 

[Jarne]

I think you misunderstood, the open air museum (Openlucht museum) is a huge museum shaped like a Dutch town in the middle ages. The first design for the outback hall went right over their parking lot. The New Guinea and Tasmania house should hopefully be small enough to not interfere

I believe he means that you have placed the black swans inside the hall, and that they can also be placed outside.

 

[Westcoastperson]

I think you misunderstood, the open air museum (Openlucht museum) is a huge museum shaped like a Dutch town in the middle ages. The first design for the outback hall went right over their parking lot. The New Guinea and Tasmania house should hopefully be small enough to not interfere

So will there be an outback house? if so you don't need an exhibit for the swans just a pond
(Edit) I understand what you mean, I have been talking about the Australian hall

 

[Westcoastperson]

Some more comments here.

The aardwolf and klipspringer would never actually happen with the current management seen as Burgers' is kinda anti-wild caught in most cases and both species have alternatives (striped and spotted hyena, dikdik and to a lesser extent red duiker).

I also doubt wether the combination of warthogs and gerenuks will end well. I always thought gerenuks to be stressy animals and their long legs will probably cause them to trip and fall over the holes dug by the warthogs. For breeding the warthogs it might also be needed to have a separate enclosure for the male, they at least separated him for some time when they had piglets in the past.

Aardwolf is in enough zoos to get a loan and klipspringer can be shipped from America or bioparc
I have seen Warthog mixes work before but I don't know if the space is large enough for a mix, the gerenuks could be mixed with ground birds or vultures though

 

[Westcoastperson]

I believe he means that you have placed the black swans inside the hall, and that they can also be placed outside.

You could but that would require wing clipping when you already have a hall that can alow flight for the swans

 

[Mr Gharial]

So will there be an outback house? if so you don't need an exhibit for the swans just a pond

Yes, it's now as it is on the new map I just showed, and no longer like the one we discussed some time before.
The introduction of the New Guinea and Tasmania house does leave one problem: There aren't really enough species anymore.
With the moving of the cassowary there is now a large amount of unused space in the outback house, and I don't know how to fill it

 

[Westcoastperson]

an

Yes, it's now as it is on the new map I just showed, and no longer like the one we discussed some time before.
The introduction of the New Guinea and Tasmania house does leave one problem: There aren't really enough species anymore.
With the moving of the cassowary there is now a large amount of unused space in the outback house, and I don't know how to fill it

another species of wallaby?

 

[Mr Gharial]

You could but that would require wing clipping when you already have a hall that can alow flight for the swans

They currently already have swans in an open enclosure together with the swamp wallabies, so I'm pretty sure their wings are already clipped

 

[Mr Gharial]

another species of wallaby?

I'm probably going to add another enclosure for wallaroos and red kangaroos, and replace the red kangaroos in the walkthrough with Eastern greys

Edit: scratch that, I have a better idea. I'll replace the swamp wallabies with wallaroos and make a seperate, more foresty exhibit for Eastern greys and swamp wallabies

 

[Jarne]

Aardwolf is in enough zoos to get a loan and klipspringer can be shipped from America or bioparc
I have seen Warthog mixes work before but I don't know if the space is large enough for a mix, the gerenuks could be mixed with ground birds or vultures though

You really think that the few zoos with aardwolf will simply send theirs away? In Europe only 3 parks have them housing a total of 5 individuals. The same could be said about the klipspringer, why would the bioparc get rid of their animal whilst it fits perfectly in their current exhibit? The US population is small and they are trying to increase their own population so obtaining some from there is also quite difficult at the moment.

Warthogs have been mixed in large exhibits yes, or in smaller with sturdy species like rhino that don't trip so easily.

 

[Westcoastperson]

You really think that the few zoos with aardwolf will simply send theirs away? In Europe only 3 parks have them housing a total of 5 individuals. The same could be said about the klipspringer, why would the bioparc get rid of their animal whilst it fits perfectly in their current exhibit? The US population is small and they are trying to increase their own population so obtaining some from there is also quite difficult at the moment.

Warthogs have been mixed in large exhibits yes, or in smaller with sturdy species like rhino that don't trip so easily.

I guess the aardwolf is understandable but I believe you underestimate the klipspringer population in america

 

[Jarne]

You could but that would require wing clipping when you already have a hall that can alow flight for the swans

Or an aviary

 

[Westcoastperson]

Or an aviary

no forget what I said up there their wings are already clipped so it should be fine

 

[Jarne]

I guess the aardwolf is understandable but I believe you underestimate the klipspringer population in america

42 in 2019 and dropping, of which 30 in AZA zoos and 12 in non-AZA zoos. They are not at their target population, and even though they require new holders sending animals to Europe would only make things worse due to all the paperwork needed to exchange animals making regular transfer almost impossible.

https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...8357986055/2019+-+Midyear+Program+Updates.pdf

 

[Westcoastperson]

42 in 2019 and dropping, of which 30 in AZA zoos and 12 in non-AZA zoos. They are not at their target population, and even though they require new holders sending animals to Europe would only make things worse due to all the paperwork needed to exchange animals making regular transfer almost impossible.

https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...8357986055/2019+-+Midyear+Program+Updates.pdf

In that slide AZA stated they wanted to expand the program, grow the population, and spread klipspringer influence so I believe they would take the chance to bring more klipspringer to Europe to breed with Bioparc and add diversity to the gene pool

Also African wild dogs would be a great replacement for the aardwolves

 

[Jarne]

In that slide AZA stated they wanted to expand the program, grow the population, and spread klipspringer influence so I believe they would take the chance to bring more klipspringer to Europe to breed with Bioparc and add diversity to the gene pool

Which would mean you need let's say about 4-5 additional parks at least which are willing to invest in good klipspringer enclosures to create a semi-sustainable population in Europe. Seen as dikdik and red/blue duiker already have trouble getting enough holders with decent exhibits, you probably won't find that many zoos willing to make those costs for just another small antelope. You'd just end up with the same problem as in the US, a lack of parks willing to commit to the program.

This would also mean that a large population would need to be shipped to begin with (8-10 animals is kind off a bare minimum, and other imports will be needed). With a population of just 42 (and only 30 in AZA) that's a huge part of your population that you risk to lose, and don't forget that the long-range transport can cause some losses. No way that they are going the send away all those animals. Especially if some non-AZA parks are not willing to cooperate, the AZA-population will not be put the already decreasing population at risk because a park in Europe likes to have a special species of hoofstock.

As I stated before just exchanging animals from 1-2 zoos in Europe with the US is way too costly and almost certainly not sustainable, you really need a larger program to achieve anything useful. Even if you can import 1 or 2 klipspringers you won't be building a sustainable population that way. The only thing it achieves is that some zoo-nerds can happily see the species in Europe for a bit longer whilst the total zoo-population is put at risk.