Damian Aspinall: You all know my views on zoos prove me wrong

[Damian Aspinall]

If we ignore animals that aren't threatened we ned up with the problem of people just not caring about them; for example before they were introduced to aquariums nobody cared about California Sea Lions , nobody cared they were almost extinct until aquariums introduced them into their exhibits and people learned just how amazing they were and now they are a very common animal and are no longer going extinct. They have world wide attention and are loved by so many because people saw them in so many zoos and their popularity spiked.
And for the argument that zoos are cages I will say this. A place that a man cannot leave is a cage. You believe that zoos are cages because you are thinking how you would feel in a zoo. The problem is over time we will en up meeting thousands maybe millions of our own species in our lifetime, we have protection form diseases and predators, and we (for some reason) enjoy traveling across the world. the same cannot be said for animals who are ok with their small territories where we can bring the best of natures beauty to them.

For me anyone who suggests animals are better off in zoos than the wild is someone where we are just to opposed in our thinking to make any progress in the discussion. I respect your view is different to own but i really really fundamentally disagree with you on this. thank you for taking the time to comment.

 

[Damian Aspinall]

His father was the owner of Port Lympne Wild Animal Park and Howletts Wild Animal Park.
Damian Aspinall is now the owner and he is anti-zoos, therefore he is slowly phasing out the species of said zoos and is not really loved by zoo enthusiast for his degrading dialogue about zoos.
Not sure I summarized it well but there you go

Thank you appreciate your comment. I actually don't own the two parks they are owned by a charity i am responsible for the running of them. I am hated by zoo enthusiasts because having learnt everything I know spending my whole life doing this work looking after animals in captivity i have come to the realisation that this whole concept of zoos is a myth and people have been brainwashed into believing that they are good and worthwhile institutions.

 

[Rayane]

Thank you appreciate your comment. I actually don't own the two parks they are owned by a charity i am responsible for the running of them. I am hated by zoo enthusiasts because having learnt everything I know spending my whole life doing this work looking after animals in captivity i have come to the realisation that this whole concept of zoos is a myth and people have been brainwashed into believing that they are good and worthwhile institutions.

Sorry for the part I didn't get right.
Well, you use very extreme and radical words. You are not hated by zoo enthusiasts. Some people disagree with you, some may hate you, I don't, many don't. The gap between disagreeing and hating is huge.
Then, I believe brainwashing is very subjective in this matter. Antropomorfism is considered an innate tendency of human psychology. A trait very common with regular visitors, people who do not necessarily know animals very well, but also present in some people who know them very well. But I think the more people are into zoology, conservation and animal studies, the less they're inclined to antropomorfism. There is a difference between bad manutention, and "they're better of in the wild". Makes sense, off course they would be if they were wild born. I am not a master of the subject, but something that is omitted when talking about animals is that they're also individuals, they do not have the same background, the same traumas if they have some, and their needs may differ from one another as well.
Also, I do not know everything you have said about zoos, I don't know how bad or well you've talked about zoos in general, but I believe some do a great job, a job that needs to be perpetuated.

 

[Damian Aspinall]

Sorry for the part I didn't get right.
Well, you use very extreme and radical words. You are not hated by zoo enthusiasts. Some people disagree with you, some may hate you, I don't, many don't. The gap between disagreeing and hating is huge.
Then, I believe brainwashing is very subjective in this matter. Antropomorfism is considered an innate tendency of human psychology. A trait very common with regular visitors, people who do not necessarily know animals very well, but also present in some people who know them very well. But I think the more people are into zoology, conservation and animal studies, the less they're inclined to antropomorfism. There is a difference between bad manutention, and "they're better of in the wild". Makes sense, off course they would be if they were wild born. I am not a master of the subject, but something that is omitted when talking about animals is that they're also individuals, they do not have the same background, the same traumas if they have some, and their needs may differ from one another as well.
Also, I do not know everything you have said about zoos, I don't know how bad or well you've talked about zoos in general, but I believe some do a great job, a job that needs to be perpetuated.

I don't think i use extreme or radical words i may speak what is in my view the brutal truth which i understand is uncomfortable for some.I don't see anything wrong with Antropomorfism at all there have been so many studies of animal behaviour and we have learnt so much more about the social ability and the conciousness of animals. We have re wilded over 300 animals so we know it is possible and although there may be what some people call good zoos but at what price. What good do they actually do when considering they have thousands of animals caged for human entertainment ?? Not much sadly

 

[Fallax]

"My view is right and everyone else is brainwashed" is quite the claim to make.

 

[Damian Aspinall]

"My view is right and everyone else is brainwashed" is quite the claim to make.

i said that ?

 

[Fallax]

i said that ?

Not a direct quote of course, but pretty much.

having learnt everything I know spending my whole life doing this work looking after animals in captivity i have come to the realisation that this whole concept of zoos is a myth and people have been brainwashed into believing that they are good and worthwhile institutions.

 

[Rayane]

I don't think i use extreme or radical words i may speak what is in my view the brutal truth which i understand is uncomfortable for some.I don't see anything wrong with Antropomorfism at all there have been so many studies of animal behaviour and we have learnt so much more about the social ability and the conciousness of animals. We have re wilded over 300 animals so we know it is possible and although there may be what some people call good zoos but at what price. What good do they actually do when considering they have thousands of animals caged for human entertainment ?? Not much sadly

See, caged is an extreme and radical word. I know zoos that don't have cages. Then what good does it do, doesn't it raise money?
Didn't it help study animals? Didn't help crack the husbandry ?
Of course this COULD have been done in-situ, but at what cost ? Zoos work with universities close by don't they ? Of course missions abroad could have been a way of doing it.
So what does the zoo of the future look like? In your opinion they don't exist anymore I believe, well, what a shame, I would never have gotten into animals if it wasn't for zoos.

Also, there have been so many studies on animals, their behavior and their happiness in captivity that goes against what you claim.
Ostrava has a crazy good Sloth bear - Langur exhibit, la Réserve Zoologique de la Haute Touche has huge ungulates enclosure. See, that's how a zoo should look like, huge enclosures, both agreable for visitor and animal.

 

[sooty mangabey]

i have come to the realisation that this whole concept of zoos is a myth and people have been brainwashed into believing that they are good and worthwhile institutions.

I don't think i use extreme or radical words i may speak what is in my view the brutal truth

Mr Aspinall's definition of extreme, and mine, are somewhat different. But then, I've just been brainwashed, apparently.

You are not hated by zoo enthusiasts.

Not the first opinion posted in this thread with which I would disagree....

 

[Damian Aspinall]

Welcome to ZooChat @Damian Aspinall. While we may differ in our views on the value of zoos, I’m always open to hear your perspective as it’s one you share with many people in society. What sets you apart is your extensive knowledge and experience in your field, which adds to the validity of what you have to say (irregardless of whether we like it or not).

I have always had great admiration for the work of Steve Irwin (the episode of The Crocodile Hunter which featured your gorillas was a particular highlight btw). Steve’s philosophy has always centred around igniting a passion in people for wildlife. Nothing can surpass the experience of seeing an animal in the flesh; and in the case of many species, the only way for people to see them is in a zoo. Irregardless of whether the experience inspires then to contribute directly to conservation; many zoos ensure this happens indirectly through contributing a percentage of their admission to their conservation funds. This alone generates millions.

If it were not for the existence of zoos; how would you propose the same passion for the cause of conservation could be instilled in the general population?

Well this is where we differ considerably which is fine..in my mind the idea that we can keep animals in cages just so people can see them in the flesh fills me with utter dread. It makes homo sapiens a horror species that it could be so arrogant to deprive animals from there natural environment for this reason. I literally feel this is barbaric. As to the amount of money you think zoos contribute to conservation on average the amount of money given by every eaza zoo in 35k pa. is that acceptable to you? Has anyone ever measures the effectiveness of that money every year to see if it justifies the animals being kept in cages ..no sadly...

 

[Damian Aspinall]

Mr Aspinall's definition of extreme, and mine, are somewhat different. But then, I've just been brainwashed, apparently.



Not the first opinion posted in this thread with which I would disagree....

Come back with empirical facts that justify the existence of the thousands of zoos in europe please.

 

[Damian Aspinall]

Not a direct quote of course, but pretty much.

you see its not what i said at all you are bending the truth to suit your argument. For there to be any positive change you cannot have a sensible discussion with people with misplaced prejudices.
I started this thread saying prove me wrong. not one argument has managed to do that.
Yes there has been some pretty nasty innuendos aimed at me but that fine i expect that in the lions den ..but don't alter the facts to suit your self..thank you for your comment

 

[Fallax]

you are bending the truth to suit your argument

Just because it isn't a direct quote that doesn't mean it is bending the truth, but alright I won't do it again I suppose.

Either way I have a few questions for you now. And let me remind you that you said in a previous post that you have replied to ALL questions but still have NOT replied to the questions I quoted yesterday so I really hope you DO reply to my following:

1. What should we do about species that can not be released due to a lack of sustainable habitat such as the Kihansi Spray Toad?

2. If zoos were to be abolished and all the animals released to the wild, would this not cause a lot of environmental stress on the already established wild populations and the local people? Would the other option be to put them to sleep?

3. Without zoos, do you not think there would be a lot less people becoming interested in animals to then help future conservation efforts? I and many others certainly became interested in animals and conservation thanks to visits to the zoo.

4. Where do you expect all the money for conservation to come from without zoo admissions? That definitely makes up a large amount of it and without it I am sure the fate of many other species would be different.

 

[birdsandbats]

Well this is where we differ considerably which is fine..in my mind the idea that we can keep animals in cages just so people can see them in the flesh fills me with utter dread. It makes homo sapiens a horror species that it could be so arrogant to deprive animals from there natural environment for this reason. I literally feel this is barbaric. As to the amount of money you think zoos contribute to conservation on average the amount of money given by every eaza zoo in 35k pa. is that acceptable to you? Has anyone ever measures the effectiveness of that money every year to see if it justifies the animals being kept in cages ..no sadly...

Whether this very idea is horrible or not is a matter of opinion, but let me ask you this. The average person doesn't really seem to care about conservation, and everyone I've met who does has fond memories of seeing animals in captivity. Do you think all of these people would still care if they had not seen an elephants (for example) as a child? I don't think so.

 

[birdsandbats]

you see its not what i said at all you are bending the truth to suit your argument. For there to be any positive change you cannot have a sensible discussion with people with misplaced prejudices.
I started this thread saying prove me wrong. not one argument has managed to do that.
Yes there has been some pretty nasty innuendos aimed at me but that fine i expect that in the lions den ..but don't alter the facts to suit your self..thank you for your comment

It may not be a direct quote but it might as well be, that is what you said.

 

[Damian Aspinall]

See, caged is an extreme and radical word. I know zoos that don't have cages. Then what good does it do, doesn't it raise money?
Didn't it help study animals? Didn't help crack the husbandry ?
Of course this COULD have been done in-situ, but at what cost ? Zoos work with universities close by don't they ? Of course missions abroad could have been a way of doing it.
So what does the zoo of the future look like? In your opinion they don't exist anymore I believe, well, what a shame, I would never have gotten into animals if it wasn't for zoos.

Also, there have been so many studies on animals, their behavior and their happiness in captivity that goes against what you claim.
Ostrava has a crazy good Sloth bear - Langur exhibit, la Réserve Zoologique de la Haute Touche has huge ungulates enclosure. See, that's how a zoo should look like, huge enclosures, both agreable for visitor and animal.

I disagree caged is an extreme word just look on the internet at how zoos keep animals of course they are caged its unrealistic to suggest anything else.
You don't need zoos to raise money for conservation.Far more money far far more money is raised for conservation outside of zoos so this has no merit at all. what use is a study of a caged animals not acting in its own natural environment absolutely none secondly have you not read all the studies that show how much mental harm is done to captive animals. Read Professor Bob Jacobs Colorado college study the subject. Very depressing and completely independent.
Surprised you feel that zoos should exist so that you could benefit seems selfish to me and what about all the animals that have suffered over the time you visited do you knot feel any guilt that they are there just for people like yourself. Thank you for your comment

 

[Damian Aspinall]

Whether this very idea is horrible or not is a matter of opinion, but let me ask you this. The average person doesn't really seem to care about conservation, and everyone I've met who does has fond memories of seeing animals in captivity. Do you think all of these people would still care if they had not seen an elephants (for example) as a child? I don't think so.

I think so for sure especially these days with all the wonderful documentaries and things on social media

 

[Damian Aspinall]

It may not be a direct quote but it might as well be, that is what you said.

well its not! read it back again..this is pointless if you want to take this attitude it is not helpful as its important to debate with people who are serious about the subject. thank you for your comment but i won't respond to you anymore for reason stated above. Of course if you retract then i would be happy to re engage.

 

[aardvark250]

I disagree caged is an extreme word just look on the internet at how zoos keep animals of course they are caged its unrealistic to suggest anything else.
......what use is a study of a caged animals not acting in its own natural environment absolutely none

A lot of zoo are giving their animals nice natural environment and they can enjoy doing what they do in the wild. They can act like they're in it. Of course there are bad zoo around the world, which still use cage in small exhibit, but most of them are throwing away this idea and building exhibit that replicate the nature as much as possible.

 

[birdsandbats]

well its not! read it back again..this is pointless if you want to take this attitude it is not helpful as its important to debate with people who are serious about the subject. thank you for your comment but i won't respond to you anymore for reason stated above. Of course if you retract then i would be happy to re engage.

You have said that you are right and that we are all brainwashed. You can't deny that.