African Elephants in Europe 2020

Elephantelephant said:
So,
Tembo from Dresden will move soon to Vienna, Tonga from Hodenhagen to Dresden. Akili from Peaugres will move to Beauval (how much longer will we wait!).

My opinions:
Impy and Mchumba they should move to Noah's Ark
Jack from Basel should move to Beekse Bergen
Jambo from Valencia to Lissabon
Jassa from Lissabon to Peaugres
Tembo should stay in Colchester, Zola will be move somewhere (Blair Drummond, Amneville...), any two cows from Valencia to Colchester (Valencia has space for four cows and two bulls), if they wanted, they could relocate Opal somewhere
Yambo or oder bull from Cabarceno move to Valencia
Carl from Talinn move to Sosto (if he is fertile at all)
Abu from Halle will should move to Zlin in two years (among other things, it is very likely that it will really happen, because Zlin said that they are making prospects for a bull from Germany in the coming years and is a very successful breeder. This is what describing Abu.)
As for the West Midlands, it will take a while, so I wouldn't deal with it yet. (for example, Niko from Amneville could go there)
Click to expand...

@Elephant Enthusiast is this what you would do if you were the Studbook Keeper for European African Elephants? If your answer is no can you please show me what you would do if you were in the shoes of the Studbook Keeper?

Kind regards George
 
Tembo is now scheduled to move to Vienna in November. Presumably Tonga will be moving to Dresden in November as well. If it follows what seems to be the increasingly common theme for bull transfers in Europe, they will likely leave their respective facilities on the same day.

As I mentioned earlier, although the odds are iffy at best, one can only hope it will go for the best, as it has the potential for HUGE growth for the African population if everything goes well, with potentially up to 9 different cows becoming pregnant because of it.
 
Elephantelephant said:
Yes, that's what I would do if I were the studbook keeper.
Click to expand...

@Elephantelephant it would be a dream come true if Jambo moves back to an English Zoo! I followed his plight on Zoo Days that was filmed at Colchester Zoo and presented by Konnie Huq. Ever since I have always wanted to meet him in person.I secretly hope that Jambo moves to the new and enlarged African Elephant enclosure at West Midlands Safari Park.
 
The Hedgehog said:
@Elephantelephant it would be a dream come true if Jambo moves back to an English Zoo! I followed his plight on Zoo Days that was filmed at Colchester Zoo and presented by Konnie Huq. Ever since I have always wanted to meet him in person.I secretly hope that Jambo moves to the new and enlarged African Elephant enclosure at West Midlands Safari Park.
Click to expand...
It would also be a good solution to move him to the West Midlands.
 
Elephantelephant said:
It would also be a good solution to move him to the West Midlands.
Click to expand...

@Elephantelephant I really hope that this happens,Jambo is very genetically important as he is sole offspring of Rosa and one of only 2 surviving progeny from Tembo. Tembo's other surviving Son is Abu who was born through Artificial Insemination (AI). If Jambo was moved to West Midlands I'd definitely pay a visit to see my favourite celebrity!!
 
The Hedgehog said:
@Elephantelephant I really hope that this happens,Jambo is very genetically important as he is sole offspring of Rosa and one of only 2 surviving progeny from Tembo. Tembo's other surviving Son is Abu who was born through Artificial Insemination (AI). If Jambo was moved to West Midlands I'd definitely pay a visit to see my favourite celebrity!!
Click to expand...
Except (and accept) that he will not move there.
 
Excellent news! Jack has moved back to Sosto from Basel to rejoin his son, daughter, and the mature cows Kwanza and Buba after three and a half years away. Although his time as Basel was sadly in vain since no pregnancies occurred, I have no doubt that things will be quite the opposite now, and I would be willing to bet very good money that were will be a calf on the ground out of Jack and Kwanza sometime during the second half of 2022.

Also re the whole Jambo debate...He is a very interesting animal. At 16 years old, he looks nothing like a proper bull. He is pot bellied with skinny legs, a small, angular head, and a narrow trunk base. Compared to other bulls at the same age (his half brother Abu at Halle, Kibo at Erfurt, Coco at Howletts, Niko at Amnville, etc...), he looks more like a cow than any semblance of a maturing bull. One has to wonder if it is an issue with him, or an issue with the quality/amount of feed he has been getting in recent years, as until around 2017 he was fairly on track development wise for a young bull.

Regardless, I don't think sending him to West Midlands would be in the best interest of the population. Five, despite living with Jack for many years before he was moved to Sosto, never became pregnant naturally, and Latabe has never gotten preganant at all. Now at 28 and 27 years, respectively, Latabe is for all intents a write off, and Five destined to only conceive calves via AI, if at all at this point. Of course, she might submit to a large, mature, confident and experienced bull and allow herself to be bred, but I have my doubts about that, and regardless, Jambo is not that bull.

West Midlands has stated they intend to build their future herd around Sutton as a breeding bull, and although I truly hope they do get Five pregnant again, I have a feeling that we won't be seeing any new calves until new cows are brought in, sadly. As for Jambo, I think he should be sent somewhere to bulk up and mature for a while (perhaps Noah's Ark or Magdeburg), before moving on to another facility to attempt breeding. As for Valencia, I don't know what's going on there, but they need to get things figured out. Six cows at ideal breeding age, a proven bull, yet not a single pregnancy in sight.
 
The issue is that a good few institutions are as yet mind of matter and some seem to be wanton to keep hold of their animals in the knowledge that they continue to fail on elephant reproduction (and/or even their facilities in general).

Both Mediterranean zoos Zoo de Lisboa and Valencia should definitely part with some of their cows as they are no longer or have failed as yet to reproduce. As HyakII has signalled Valencia need to cut their herd and send at least 3 cows up to a proven bull location as it is important to get elephants into breeding situations before their window of opportunity / cycling has past (for primiparous at 20, for multiparous ... it is an open one). I can think of a few other collections too.

It is beneficial for all if all non reproductive individuals are retained at collections unwilling or unable to breed and designate a dedicated number of facilities as breeding institutions.
 
Kifaru Bwana said:
Except (and accept) that he will not move there.
Click to expand...

Hyak_II said:
Excellent news! Jack has moved back to Sosto from Basel to rejoin his son, daughter, and the mature cows Kwanza and Buba after three and a half years away. Although his time as Basel was sadly in vain since no pregnancies occurred, I have no doubt that things will be quite the opposite now, and I would be willing to bet very good money that were will be a calf on the ground out of Jack and Kwanza sometime during the second half of 2022.

Also re the whole Jambo debate...He is a very interesting animal. At 16 years old, he looks nothing like a proper bull. He is pot bellied with skinny legs, a small, angular head, and a narrow trunk base. Compared to other bulls at the same age (his half brother Abu at Halle, Kibo at Erfurt, Coco at Howletts, Niko at Amnville, etc...), he looks more like a cow than any semblance of a maturing bull. One has to wonder if it is an issue with him, or an issue with the quality/amount of feed he has been getting in recent years, as until around 2017 he was fairly on track development wise for a young bull.

Regardless, I don't think sending him to West Midlands would be in the best interest of the population. Five, despite living with Jack for many years before he was moved to Sosto, never became pregnant naturally, and Latabe has never gotten preganant at all. Now at 28 and 27 years, respectively, Latabe is for all intents a write off, and Five destined to only conceive calves via AI, if at all at this point. Of course, she might submit to a large, mature, confident and experienced bull and allow herself to be bred, but I have my doubts about that, and regardless, Jambo is not that bull.

West Midlands has stated they intend to build their future herd around Sutton as a breeding bull, and although I truly hope they do get Five pregnant again, I have a feeling that we won't be seeing any new calves until new cows are brought in, sadly. As for Jambo, I think he should be sent somewhere to bulk up and mature for a while (perhaps Noah's Ark or Magdeburg), before moving on to another facility to attempt breeding. As for Valencia, I don't know what's going on there, but they need to get things figured out. Six cows at ideal breeding age, a proven bull, yet not a single pregnancy in sight.
Click to expand...

@
Hyak_II said:
Excellent news! Jack has moved back to Sosto from Basel to rejoin his son, daughter, and the mature cows Kwanza and Buba after three and a half years away. Although his time as Basel was sadly in vain since no pregnancies occurred, I have no doubt that things will be quite the opposite now, and I would be willing to bet very good money that were will be a calf on the ground out of Jack and Kwanza sometime during the second half of 2022.

Also re the whole Jambo debate...He is a very interesting animal. At 16 years old, he looks nothing like a proper bull. He is pot bellied with skinny legs, a small, angular head, and a narrow trunk base. Compared to other bulls at the same age (his half brother Abu at Halle, Kibo at Erfurt, Coco at Howletts, Niko at Amnville, etc...), he looks more like a cow than any semblance of a maturing bull. One has to wonder if it is an issue with him, or an issue with the quality/amount of feed he has been getting in recent years, as until around 2017 he was fairly on track development wise for a young bull.

Regardless, I don't think sending him to West Midlands would be in the best interest of the population. Five, despite living with Jack for many years before he was moved to Sosto, never became pregnant naturally, and Latabe has never gotten preganant at all. Now at 28 and 27 years, respectively, Latabe is for all intents a write off, and Five destined to only conceive calves via AI, if at all at this point. Of course, she might submit to a large, mature, confident and experienced bull and allow herself to be bred, but I have my doubts about that, and regardless, Jambo is not that bull.

West Midlands has stated they intend to build their future herd around Sutton as a breeding bull, and although I truly hope they do get Five pregnant again, I have a feeling that we won't be seeing any new calves until new cows are brought in, sadly. As for Jambo, I think he should be sent somewhere to bulk up and mature for a while (perhaps Noah's Ark or Magdeburg), before moving on to another facility to attempt breeding. As for Valencia, I don't know what's going on there, but they need to get things figured out. Six cows at ideal breeding age, a proven bull, yet not a single pregnancy in sight.
Click to expand...


Hyak_II in my view Jambo is one of the most impressive Bull African Elephants I have ever seen. I do find it strange that Jambo has not sired any offspring in his 12 years at Bioparc Valencia.I have a theory and this is how it goes. Jambo was exseptionally younger practecly a calf himself when he was moved to Bioparc Valencia. Due to this I speculate that the Elephants Cowes at Bioparc Valencia see him as their calf so do not feel \are dominated by him. A similar situation occurred at Longleat Safari Park with Nico and Samba the Western Lowland Gorillas. Nico and Samba were paired up at an incredibly young age so felt more like siblings than a consenting couple. I reckon that if Jambo moved to another destination for instance Noah's Ark Zoo Farm to mature or West Midlands to breed he would become a brilliant Bull.
 
Jambo did not produce any calves because he does not understand with dominant cow Matla very well and therefore probably does not have access to the cows (or if he has, Matla does not want to let him to cows). It's great that Jack is back in Sosto. But it was also told that Basel was looking for a new bull, which I find unnecessary, because Maya is already old on the first calf and I heard Rosy that she can't even get pregnant anymore.
 
As Colchester Zoo mentioned performing Artificial Insemmination (AI) useing Jambo’s sperm,could Colchester receive Jambo back and not just his sperm? Why don’t Colchester Zoo transfer Tembo along with Zola to Bioparc Valencia in exchange for Jambo and a couple of young females?

The reason behind this suggestion is that Jambo is of prime breeding age and might mate with one of the younger females he currently lives with without Matla being within their abode. it is a well known fact that the other Elephant Cowe’s haven’t clicked with Zola. The only Elephant Zola has got on with is Tembo. I think Tembo would dominate the Cowes at Bioparc Valencia and Zola should befriend the Cowes that reside within the Bioparc. @Elephantelephant and @Elephant Enthusiast do you both agree or see the reasoning behind my ideas?
 
Last edited:
Elephantelephant said:
Jambo did not produce any calves because he does not understand with dominant cow Matla very well and therefore probably does not have access to the cows (or if he has, Matla does not want to let him to cows). It's great that Jack is back in Sosto. But it was also told that Basel was looking for a new bull, which I find unnecessary, because Maya is already old on the first calf and I heard Rosy that she can't even get pregnant anymore.
Click to expand...
If Basel Zoo is to succeed they need younger females and a proven bull on site.

They previously had bull Calimero for a some time and and he did produce a stillborn calf with cow Heri. At Safari Beekse Bergen he has not done much and only managed to breed with cow Carla (another stillbirth in 2006). Personally I tend to think he really is not up to the task.
 
Kifaru Bwana said:
If Basel Zoo is to succeed they need younger females and a proven bull on site.

They previously had bull Calimero for a some time and and he did produce a stillborn calf with cow Heri. At Safari Beekse Bergen he has not done much and only managed to breed with cow Carla (another stillbirth in 2006). Personally I tend to think he really is not up to the task.
Click to expand...

I wonder if bringing in a new, younger bull might help for Beeske Bergen. Even if the young bull doesn't breed immediately, having another mature bull might pull Calimero into a strong musth cycle and stimulate an urge to breed the cows again, since he obiviously knows how to do it.

It's seems to have worked for Knies Kinderzoo, after they brought in Mekong, both Mekong and Thisiam went into a STRONG musth, and Thisiam has been showing lots of interest in the cows.
 
African cow Drumbo has moved from Vienna to Dvůr Králové. I knew, that Dvur is looking for new cows, but I hasn't expected Drumbo. She got along very well with the elephant cow Numbi at Schönbrunn Zoo, so I really don't understand why she didn't stay at Vienna. After renovate exhibit in Dvur, they want to keep old cows from other zoos, which is pity for place like Dvur, that they will not build new facility for breeding herd.

Move Jack is great news and I hope, that Kwanza will have new calf as soon as it's possible. About Basel there isn't the reason, why they should have a new bull, when their cows are propably too old to breeding. They were restoring facility, when Maya and Rosy had last chance to have calf instead of searching new bull. So I don't think, that zoos like Basel should get new young elephants, when they had chance to breeding and didn't use it.

Valencia is a big issue, which is discussed several years and nothing is happening. Sending part of their herd to another zoo is the only solution. Jambo should definitely move to place with other bulls, because he has been seperated for several years and he could become more confident with young bulls. Maybe he did not have the opportunity to learn about the mating act in Colchester, because he 's the youngest descendant of Tembo and in Valencia propably hasn't met other males.

I don't know, if building new herd around Sutton in West Midlands is the best idea, because getting young cows will be harder and harder after several years....
 
Last edited:
Tusker said:
African cow Drumbo has moved from Vienna to Dvůr Králové. I knew, that Dvur is looking for new cows, but I hasn't expected Drumbo. She got along very well with the elephant cow Numbi at Schönbrunn Zoo, so I really don't understand why she didn't stay at Vienna. After renovate exhibit in Dvur, they want to keep old cows from other zoos, which is pity for place like Dvur, that they will not build new facility for breeding herd.

Move Jack is great news and I hope, that Kwanza will have new calf as soon as it's possible. About Basel there isn't the reason, why they should have a new bull, when their cows are propably too old to breeding. They were restoring facility, when Maya and Rosy had last chance to have calf instead of searching new bull. So I don't think, that zoos like Basel should get new young elephants, when they had chance to breeding and didn't use it.

Valencia is a big issue, which is discussed several years and nothing is happening. Sending part of their herd to another zoo is the only solution. Jambo should definitely move to place with other bulls, because he has been seperated for several years and he could become more confident with young bulls. Maybe he did not have the opportunity to learn about the mating act in Colchester, because he 's the youngest descendant of Tembo and in Valencia propably hasn't met other males.

I don't know, if building new herd around Sutton in West Midlands is the best idea, because getting young cows will be harder and harder after several years....
Click to expand...
I agree with everything.
 
Great news:
Tembo has moved to Vienna, so there is finally the experienced breeding bull. Tonga will be moving to Dresden after few days.

Akili has moved from Plaisance du Touch to Beuval. He can be ideal partner for Ashanti and N'Dala, who are very genetically important. Other cows in Beuval are propably too old to breeding.

This movements are great for increase the population of african elephants in Europe and hopefully there will be more transfers like these.
 
Well, at Beauval keepers speak mainly about Ashanti for breeding. Less hope for N'Dala. No more.
Maybe suprises could happen
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top