I believe the biggest problem for this idea is the current lack of ungulate species within the region, Monartos massive size will need a certain amount of stock to display if its going to live up to something even close to it full portential, If the ZAA had stuck to its original idea of having Impala as the regions designated Gazelle species and the Sable antelope as the other chosen antelope species for the region this would have gone a long way to having better species selection in open range exhibits across the region. perhaps we can hope for a little bit of sunshine to filter through the door in the future in this regard.
Monarto Safari Park Monarto Safari Park News 2020
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Perhaps impala and sable can be added to the theoretical bovid import paperwork. One of them was previously in the country, if that makes the slightest bit of difference. It would seem that South Africa and New Zealand will be the two countries vital for any future bovid transactions.
Oh and I remember reading that wildebeest won't happen because they can carry some nasty disease which puts them on the banned list alongside any wild cattle, sheep or goat species. Unfortunately because I think they would suit the open-plains zoos well too.
Oh and I remember reading that wildebeest won't happen because they can carry some nasty disease which puts them on the banned list alongside any wild cattle, sheep or goat species. Unfortunately because I think they would suit the open-plains zoos well too.
As far as I can remember two zoos in Australia had Sable, Werribee and Pearl coast zoo, I believe if better numbers had of been imported in the beginning we may of had a thriving population by now they are well suited to our climate and open range conditions.Impala running across exhibits in Western Plans zoo, Werribee and Monarto would looked wonderful perhaps even better than seeing Indian Blackbuck moving around African Giraffe!
Agreed on both points! Both are beautiful antelopes.
toothlessjaws
Well-Known Member
To be honest i’m a bit confused when trying to understand the current state of bovid import rules. My last take on it was as an interim, there was a doorway opened via NZ for some species already in the region, which got the bongo and nyala through. The end game wasapproving a process for bovids in general, direct from South Africa, USA etc. But I’m not at all confident I got this right.
But assuming this is correct, you’d expect zoos to freely be able to apply to have new bovid species added to the live import list, and then free to enter. Last i checked, quite a few species no longer here were still on the list such as congo buffalo, sable, sitatunga, lechwe, gemsbok and some gazelle species.
interestingly, species some of these, such as grants gazelle, are also currently on both NZ and Australian import lists. Not sure if this means technically there is an existing pathway...?
I agree its all a bit grey, this process has been on going for a very long time and from what I understand it was always going to be completed by the end of the year but few knew which year as it kept being pushed and and delayed again and again but dont expect anything soon!
toothlessjaws
Well-Known Member
Thinking further, I'm not sure if you’d need an inordinate number of antelope species to make the experience feel authentic from a visitor perspective.
To use the Mara as an example, I think 99% of the antelopes I saw where either blue wildebeest, thompsons gazelle, grants gazelle, impala or to a lesser extent topi.
The other ungulate species mostly encountered were masai giraffe, plains zebra and warthog...
Its not a lot.
A big part of the satisfaction of a real safari is not the just the diversity of species but also the sheer number of animals. Our zoos actually seem terribly understocked by comparison. If Monarto could achieve bigger herd sizes it would be a big part of the appeal IMO.
To use the Mara as an example, I think 99% of the antelopes I saw where either blue wildebeest, thompsons gazelle, grants gazelle, impala or to a lesser extent topi.
The other ungulate species mostly encountered were masai giraffe, plains zebra and warthog...
Its not a lot.
A big part of the satisfaction of a real safari is not the just the diversity of species but also the sheer number of animals. Our zoos actually seem terribly understocked by comparison. If Monarto could achieve bigger herd sizes it would be a big part of the appeal IMO.
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I fully agree with this. To use Bongo as an example - most zoos in the region holding this species (even the open range zoos) have had a pair or a trio. This is a species that can live in herds of up to 50 females and their young. Aside from the visual impact a herd of this size would have; importing larger founder bases would offset the consequences of some females not successfully breeding etc.
toothlessjaws
Well-Known Member
And no doubt there are positive behavioural repercussions from keeping them in a more natural scenario like this.
I dont believe the public would want to see 200 Eland and a smattering of odd and ends lets try and make it a all round outstanding job so Joe Public want to keep coming back
toothlessjaws
Well-Known Member
I dont know of anyone called Joe Pulic do you?
toothlessjaws
Well-Known Member
I dont know of anyone called Joe Pulic do you?
Ha, you beat me to the edit! Joe Pulic sounds like a guy we all went to high school with who now leases out luxury cars. I bet he’d hate safari as well.
For what its worth yes I have been to Africa and seen a few things. I have agreed with just about all your comments on this thread. If you do sell used cars for a living I am not going to hold that against you.
toothlessjaws
Well-Known Member
For what its worth yes I have been to Africa and seen a few things. I have agreed with just about all your comments on this thread. If you do sell used cars for a living I am not going to hold that against you.
Not sell used cars. LEASE luxury cars! But to get back on topic, if you’ve been on safari I’m surprised by your initial statement - You didn’t find the volume of animals was part of the appeal? I remember being stunned at how high the animal to m2 ratio was. It made me think how sad Werribee zoo was by comparison. In the context of the Monarto expansion, my point was that more bovine species was only a part of fulfilling its potential, another was bigger herds.
OK I will try to explain my view, If one goes out to see animals in the wild it boils down to you get what you see on the day but as a zoo visitor of more than 50 years I would expect to see a larger range of species for my buck in a zoo, I am the same distance from Australia zoo as I am the Darling Downs zoo but to myself I do not visit Aust zoo because in my view there not enough for me to see while Darling downs has what I believe one of the largest range of species for a zoo visitor to see in the state so for me DDZ wins every time.
The San Deigo Safari park is a classic case of what I view as an all round open range collection, in fact outstanding. I believe if the SDSP had say just Topi and Zebra they would get less visitors and less income, this is the point I was trying to say.
As you mentioned Werribee I would not visit as it is atm but I would go once the new expansion is completed. Another point just speaking for myself is having blackbuck living with Giraffe as is the case at the WPZ, my view is they should have a range of African species in an African exhibit not stand ins because the lack the native species of that country.
The San Deigo Safari park is a classic case of what I view as an all round open range collection, in fact outstanding. I believe if the SDSP had say just Topi and Zebra they would get less visitors and less income, this is the point I was trying to say.
As you mentioned Werribee I would not visit as it is atm but I would go once the new expansion is completed. Another point just speaking for myself is having blackbuck living with Giraffe as is the case at the WPZ, my view is they should have a range of African species in an African exhibit not stand ins because the lack the native species of that country.
I am not sure that a tropical rainforest species that is quite often solitary like bongo really do congegrate in herds of up to 50 individuals. You might have the bongo confused with another Tragelaphus species?
I would underline that at the moment the bongo in Australia is far from being maintained in pairs or 3-somes. At best, there is one functional pairing and a few singletons+ in few other collections. I really cannot understand why import regulations remain a hold up to create some sound regional management with sufficient founder stock here. (SE Asia, Korea and Japan even hold bongo in numbers).
Following the thread, I do agree that any open range zoo in Australia - not just Monarto - would benefit from having 6 antelope species on the range: wildebeest, hartebeest, sable/roan antelope, gazelle big and small, impala and eland and/or kudu. Add on giraffe, rhino, elephant and warthog and zebra (plains and Grevy's) you would have a very nice set up.
When I look at the wildlife trading business pretty much the 6 named species can be imported in numbers. South Africa at the moment having the bulk of the business in selling surplus stock all the time and most species mentioned are freely available. But I could think of other countries like Namibia, Zimbabwe, even East Africa like Tanzania, Uganda and perhaps Kenya warming to an ex situ initiative if the net result is cash for conservation.
The bottom line: there are import restrictions in place and a system (obviously not working) to regulate vetted imports of exotic wild animals (and I assume this pertains to wild plants too) in the region. For the love of our brains, to me it remains absolutely incomprehensible a few informed zoo staffers cannot explain to bureaucracy the evidence-based need for population management with conservation value within Australia with regard to exotic wildlife.
It really should not take 10-15 years to accomplish an import before something positive "happens", nor the push back that seems to have occurred for yonkers years (the subject has been discussed time and time again for Australia/New Zealand). I assume there is a lack of political will coupled with a lobby by private interest groups to prevent these imports / exports (!!!) from becoming reality.
BTW: The import of the nyala sometime ago was the only high point to date.
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I agree on all your points. I also believe the mindset of some zoo managers has changed of resent years and we may find this is one of the reasons for the lack of species being exhibited these days in our major zoos and the doubling up of many species being held within the said zoos to fluff out the numbers.I feel there is a degree of mis management going on as has been mentioned on the forum before, the Maned Wolf species just being an example, but saved by a small but progressive regional zoo!
Similar situation when I went to Chobe a couple of years back. There were only four species of antelope. Impala were by far the most common, with a fair number of greater kudu, waterbuck near the river and a few puku.
Yes, that is all basically correct.
Antelope can currently be imported to Australia from New Zealand (most recently the Nyala group and the female Bongo).
The draft for the new risk analysis for importing zoo bovids from other countries was completed last year and released for submissions. The actual legislation is not finalised yet - but note that this is nothing to do with the zoos or the ZAA, it is in the hands of the government department, so it will be ready when it is ready. Sometimes these things take well over a year.
Any new species a zoo is interested in can be applied for to add to the approved list of importable species. (But, again, it is a lengthy process). Anything already on the list of approved species can be imported once the legislation is in place.