The worst part is the AZA is trying to get more genetically pure bison and let the beefalo bloodline end so Europe could very much help if they do have pure bison
What species are not allowed to be bred in zoos inthe UK and why?
- Thread starter garyjp
- Start date
I remember seeing in the most recent EAZA TAG report that the deer TAG are trying to appeal against the ban on Reeve's muntjac, so that they can be managed as an EEP.
Following with interest
On the subject of the invasive species act in general, the species list seems utterly arbitrary and doesn't seem to particularly be based upon science. In fact, I have read in several sources that one of the banned species (the Egyptian goose) is a historically-extinct native species to the southeastern part of Europe. Several impact assessments of the species say themselves that there is no real data to back up why it is so much worse than, say, a Canada goose which remains off the banned list. Indeed, the issues that Egyptian geese supposedly cause (grazing, aggression toward native birds, fouling with droppings) have all been leveled at native birds such as mute swans, at a time when they were also thought to be non-native to Britain. Apparently, the damage a non-native species causes just disappears if its status changes.
The other species whose banning seems premature (off the top of my head) is the sacred ibis - there was a scientific paper released in 2013 about their impact in Europe and it was pretty damming in calling out some serious biases in earlier papers. One of these earlier studies had accused a pair of ibises of eating all the eggs in a sandwich tern colony, without mentioning that all the eggs had been abandoned three weeks prior after the colony was attacked by a fox. I am really surprised more has not been made of such information.
The other species whose banning seems premature (off the top of my head) is the sacred ibis - there was a scientific paper released in 2013 about their impact in Europe and it was pretty damming in calling out some serious biases in earlier papers. One of these earlier studies had accused a pair of ibises of eating all the eggs in a sandwich tern colony, without mentioning that all the eggs had been abandoned three weeks prior after the colony was attacked by a fox. I am really surprised more has not been made of such information.
See also our native European Tree Frog and Pool Frog populations, which were allowed to go extinct because they were incorrectly presumed to be invasive introductions
This is very interesting because from what I know these sort of laws don't exist for zoos only for pet owners in America (If I am wrong please just tell me). I would think the US would have these laws especially in the warmer parts of the US. Los Angeles has wild Peafowl, Miami has invasive Lion Fish, and Both have invasive parrots. So (if these laws don't exist in the US) why are they so tight in the UK? Do they exist elsewhere?
This book, while eleven years old, is probably the definitive work on naturalized vertebrates in the British Isles both past and present.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Naturalize...ntly readable,impact on the local environment.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Naturalize...ntly readable,impact on the local environment.
I am fuming that the EU has even thought of adding brush-tail possums. Europe might not have competition for brush-tail possum, but it has predators which NZ lacks. To add up to this, Trichosurus spp. don't give birth to large litters like opossums and raccoons.
I can't speak for state laws but the USFWS has the Lacey's act which prohibits the interstate trade on select endangered species and injurious species. The injurious species amendment was first made to protect island occupancies such as Hawaii. So (if I understood the resources I read correctly) banned alien species were still able to be imported to mainland. Then Hawaii became a state and the law was amended to ban trade to the mainland as well. This is why Pteropus spp., meerkats, and Java sparrows could be invasive in Wisconsin according to the government. Banned animals could only be imported for the usual noble purposes (education and research). So pet owners and fur farmers can't get raccoon dogs and red-whiskered bulbuls.
Speaking of animals not allowed in UK zoos is breeding hybrid big cats prohibited?
Sausagefingers
Well-Known Member
I don't believe there is any spicific law against breeding hybrid big cats. Unlike the US we have very few privately owned big cats here so breeding is controlled by biaza/eaza/waza mostly. I also don't think the public here would really be attracted to seeing hybrids, you can buy savanna cats and wolf dogs here but they arnt that popular and you need a licence most of the time too.
I think we're lucky really that we don't have hybrids. There's a much bigger focus on conservation then entertainment in the UK.
I'm not sure about the public not being attracted to seeing hybrids, otherwise why would some zoos keep tigrons and ligers?
Other than wild Greylag/Canada crosses the only hybrid I recall ever seeing in the UK is the lone Zedonk at Groombridge Place in Kent. The Attraction - Groombridge Place
Onychorhynchus coronatus
Well-Known Member
Yes, but this appears to be mainly the public in the USA who seem to want to see these kind of things.
Andrew Swales
Well-Known Member
In a continued attempt to correct such miss-information; the UK is actually flooded with hybrids. Pheasants and waterfowl (just look at the media gallery on here); numerous other bird spp, finches, parakeets, macaws etc; 'wolf'dogs'; any number of designer reptiles; Serval and Leopard Cat crossed with domestics; the list could go on...
Indeed - I have seen hybrid owls and falcons at a *minimum* of a dozen UK collections, for instance, and there are still several species-level hybrid gibbons in UK collections.
Last edited by a moderator:
I think the 3 main "big" zoo animals that have been hybridized are giraffe,chimps and tigers although the majority of these species are now in single sex groups or prevented from breeding. There are probably a lot more hybrid animals in the UK that aren't made public knowledge, the main thing is that known hybrids are prevented from breeding but that could be easier said than done
Onychorhynchus coronatus
Well-Known Member
Unrelated to the thread (well perhaps tangentially considering the Duke thing) but just wanted to say well done Andrew for keeping the collared lemur going ex-situ, very impressed by what I've read about it.
Last edited by a moderator:
Sausagefingers
Well-Known Member
Of course there are hybrids. My comments were more along the lines of big cats which were referenced and not to do with subspecies. I don't think I've ever seen a tigon/liger etc in the UK and don't believe they would be a draw. However I know there are hybrid capuchins/marmosets/birds of various varieties and have seen many hybrid frogs. However I don't believe theses are a draw to the public. And as I mentioned there are savanna cats and wolf dogs available for sale online at an uncomfortably High rate.
America likes bigger and more dangerous animals leading to hybrid/Cross breeds being big crowd pullers where as in the UK it seems to be more conservation success that draws us in.
Of course this is all from my view point.
Last edited by a moderator:
I totally understand and agree with your comment.
To claim conservation as a priority, which most zoos do as their main raison d'etre, and then deliberately breed and display hybrids would make a mockery of such claims.
Some of the bloodlines of the various subspecies such as tigers and giraffes that still exist as hybrids go back many years and are only discernable by DNA analysis.
Some tragic mistakes happen, such as the introduction of Amur DNA into the wild Bengal Tiger population, which I don't believe can now be corrected.
Sometimes, as in the attempted breeding of the Northern White Rhino, it would be necessary (if it had worked).
Of course this is mainly mammals, as bird, reptile and fish hybrids can take place with private breeders breeding for looks rather than to maintain a pure bloodline, mainly for commercial reasons.
But accidents do happen, such as hybrid marmoset held at Monkeyworld. I understand that their breeding of Woolly Monkeys contains a number of cross sub species hybrids but due to the low numbers in captivity this is ignored.
I also understand that most chimps are non sub specific due to mixing of imported animals.
This also extends to the import of Killer Whales in the past where different species, as we now understand them, with very different behaviours and food sources were put together and unsurprisingly in hindsight, failed to prosper, as they had no commonality.
Sausagefingers
Well-Known Member
Absolutely!!! I agree there are times hybridization may have a slight benifit. Monkey world I believe is a mix of 3 subspecies of woolley monjey? But with such small captive bloodlines and little success it's better having woolley monkeys breeding then not.
I believe that new subspecies are found all the time, wasn't it just a few years ago that red ruffed lemurs were found to be from 2 subspecies leading to a breeding holt before restarting once the purest animals were found.
The only place in the UK breeding a hybrid line that's not needed that I can think of could be noahs arks giraffe. Many sites choosing to let hybrids live out there days in none breeding situations.
Noah's Ark is one of 2 places that breed hybrids in the UK, Dudley zoo is the other one. However NAZF lost their breeding female(she was purebred) earlier this year. So we will wait to see if another female is sourced(hopefully not). Dudley had 2 females however one died about 5 years ago and fortunately she wasn't replaced.
NAZF have a hybrid bull and Dudley have a hybrid female