Australian and ( NZ) Elephants news and discussion

[Zoofan15]

If Perth’s and Aucklands animals are destined for the same location, theres possibly the option to move Aucklands cows to Perth first, allowing Permai to establish new bonds prior to Tricias death and also allow Anjalee breeding opportunities be it naturally or via a much more straightforward AI procedure (assuming the covid-related issue at Auckland is flying in the semen and not the experts, which wont be much different at Perth).

Once ready, the entire herd can be moved to another zoo.

but im just thinking aloud.

This idea has many benefits. Integrating into a new herd will be less daunting for Permai if she has the support of two elephants she's known for a couple of years; and by the time Perth Zoo are ready to transfer Permai (upon Tricia's death), the Werribee facility should be up and running (and could also be an option). I'm sure Perth Zoo would be thrilled to welcome an elephant calf in the interim if that eventuates during the timeframe.

Having visited Perth Zoo, I was very surprised at the lack of space their elephants have. Doubling the female herd might not be viable; but given the time frame is short term, it may well be justifiable. Relocating Burma and Anjalee to TWPZ might appear the obvious option; but the fact they haven't announced it means they're open to exploring other possibilities - of which this could well be one.

 

[toothlessjaws]

.....but the fact they haven't announced it means they're open to exploring other possibilities....

Agree. I actually think there is every chance they don't end up in Australia, though you'd think at the very least Sydney Zoo will be placing a very enthusiastic offer to take them.

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

Agree. I actually think there is every chance they don't end up in Australia, though you'd think at the very least Sydney Zoo will be placing a very enthusiastic offer to take them.

Sydney Zoo does not have breeding bulls!

 

[Elephantelephant]

I think it's also possible that they relocate to the United States. US would welcome new elephants. But let's be surprised.

 

[Zoofan15]

Sydney Zoo does not have breeding bulls!

They have two adolescent bulls that could at least be used for AI right here and now. However, Sydney Zoo have two elephant paddocks, one for the two young bulls; one for a cow which doesn't socialise well with other elephants. They really don't have the facilities to take on two additional cows.

Auckland Zoo would also be unlikely to send their cows to a facility of similar size to their own, keeping in mind their reasons for phasing out their elephants. They genuinely want them to have a better life.

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

They have two adolescent bulls that could at least be used for AI right here and now. However, Sydney Zoo have two elephant paddocks, one for the two young bulls; one for a cow which doesn't socialise well with other elephants. They really don't have the facilities to take on two additional cows.

Auckland Zoo would also be unlikely to send their cows to a facility of similar size to their own, keeping in mind their reasons for phasing out their elephants. They genuinely want them to have a better life.

Auckland Zoo has probably made the decision not just out of concern for the current Asiatic elephants they hold and for which they wish for a best outcome - proven existing breeder location, management must already have looked at future opportunities for the exhibit that was renovated for pachyderms all along. It will be interesting to see how Auckland Zoo goes into its next phase (after the Orangs).

 

[Zorro]

Agree. I actually think there is every chance they don't end up in Australia, though you'd think at the very least Sydney Zoo will be placing a very enthusiastic offer to take them.

I dont believe Sydney zoo could really do a good job holding 5 elephants due to lack of room for that number and holding yards in case they need to be separated!

 

[Zorro]

Auckland Zoo has probably made the decision not just out of concern for the current Asiatic elephants they hold and for which they wish for a best outcome - proven existing breeder location, management must already have looked at future opportunities for the exhibit that was renovated for pachyderms all along. It will be interesting to see how Auckland Zoo goes into its next phase (after the Orangs).

I always felt AZ were half hearted with having elephants and not wanting to hold a bull, also I feel not having brought over two young at the same time which would give any animal rights groups a second chance of causing problems!

 

[Jambo]

I think it's also possible that they relocate to the United States. US would welcome new elephants. But let's be surprised.

This could be an option, but i’m all behind keeping Anjalee in Australia. Being only fourteen, she is still quite young, and her genetics are unrepresented in the region. It would be a huge waste of genetics for her to leave.

 

[toothlessjaws]

Sydney Zoo does not have breeding bulls!

I dont believe Sydney zoo could really do a good job holding 5 elephants due to lack of room for that number and holding yards in case they need to be separated!

I'm not advocating for Sydney Zoo. I've made the point many times that I am disappointed a new zoo on the scene chose to keep elephants in a small urban environment.

I was just pointing out that Sydney's mouth must be watering....

 

[toothlessjaws]

This could be an option, but i’m all behind keeping Anjalee in Australia. Being only fourteen, she is still quite young, and her genetics are unrepresented in the region. It would be a huge waste of genetics for her to leave.

Yes and no. Anjalee is a Sri Lankan elephant, whereas all the other elephants in the breeding program are of mainland stock. I don't think the intention of the Australasian breeding program thus far has been to manage elephants at the subspecies level, but I always felt that it would be desirable if they did.

 

[Zorro]

Yes and no. Anjalee is a Sri Lankan elephant, whereas all the other elephants in the breeding program are of mainland stock. I don't think the intention of the Australasian breeding program thus far has been to manage elephants at the subspecies level, but I always felt that it would be desirable if they did.

I guess part of the problem is the Australian population is quite tiny when compared to the US population and European, it maybe beggers cant be choosers. As with Australia zoo going with the Sumatran sub-species just makes it a little bit harder with the regions small population base!

 

[Zoofan15]

I guess part of the problem is the Australian population is quite tiny when compared to the US population and European, it maybe beggers cant be choosers. As with Australia zoo going with the Sumatran sub-species just makes it a little bit harder with the regions small population base!

Agreed. The region would surely struggle to coordinate an Asian elephant breeding programme at subspecies level. By virtue of them being the only elephants available to them, Australia Zoo has the foundations of a purebred herd however.

It’ll be good if they do indeed acquire two bulls; as they won’t be able to rely on the support of other zoos to provide a second bull to breed with the first generation cows born at the zoo. An import now of two bulls could potentially sustain their herd for close on half a century!

 

[Zorro]

Agreed. The region would surely struggle to coordinate an Asian elephant breeding programme at subspecies level. By virtue of them being the only elephants available to them, Australia Zoo has the foundations of a purebred herd however.

It’ll be good if they do indeed acquire two bulls; as they won’t be able to rely on the support of other zoos to provide a second bull to breed with the first generation cows born at the zoo. An import now of two bulls could potentially sustain their herd for close on half a century!

Even though I am glad they got their own elephants it would of been better as a whole for the regional program if they would have been the mainland sub-species

 

[toothlessjaws]

Agreed. The region would surely struggle to coordinate an Asian elephant breeding programme at subspecies level.....

It’ll be good if they do indeed acquire two bulls; as they won’t be able to rely on the support of other zoos to provide a second bull to breed with the first generation cows born at the zoo. An import now of two bulls could potentially sustain their herd for close on half a century!

Whilst i know your latter part of your response refers to Australia Zoo, I actually think that the argument works in favour of maintaining pure subspecies.

Whilst Europe and the USA might have mixed their asians (?), Australia's ZAA has associations with its equivalent SEAZA and I seem to even recall a Melbourne keeper telling me there had been some past agreement/dialogue with Singapore about managing elephants. A trade of a bull or two with Singapore would keep Australia's hers pure for the foreseeable future.

Whilst officially Australia doesn't manage elephants at the subspecies level, I think the fact that so-far all their acquired animals have been pure mainland animals direct from SE Asia shows its very possible to keep it that way.

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

Yes and no. Anjalee is a Sri Lankan elephant, whereas all the other elephants in the breeding program are of mainland stock. I don't think the intention of the Australasian breeding program thus far has been to manage elephants at the subspecies level, but I always felt that it would be desirable if they did.

It has been the general thought that mainland Deccan Plateau/Indian Subcontinent elephant and Sri Lankan are of similar stock.

Stocks in Europe have not been mixed, other than that there have been f.i. mixed Bornean/mainland offspring in one or two collections. I would be very much in favour of getting the pure-bred Bornean at one locations (similar to the now pure-bred Sumatran line at Madrid Zoo). I know of at least one zoo that wants to acquire Borneans (in the planning stages).

I am not sure but I thought Singapore had Malaysian stock. Just for sure it is only known for their breeding bull Chawang.

 

[toothlessjaws]

It has been the general thought that mainland Deccan Plateau/Indian Subcontinent elephant and Sri Lankan are of similar stock.

I'd read in a few places that some theorised mainland working elephants had been historically brought over first by Tamils, then the British to Sri Lanka and interbred with the wild Sri Lankan subspecies making them all now a mix. Whether the subspecific status of Sri Lanka's elephants is yet to be debunked or not, I personally I find this theory rather ridiculous.

Love to be directed to any up to date studies if anyone has come across them. Also, the conclusion on Bornean elephants if anyone knows?

Stocks in Europe have not been mixed, other than that there have been f.i. mixed Bornean/mainland offspring in one or two collections. I would be very much in favour of getting the pure-bred Bornean at one locations (similar to the now pure-bred Sumatran line at Madrid Zoo). I know of at least one zoo that wants to acquire Borneans (in the planning stages).

No Sri Lankan stock in there at all? Assuming they are indeed different?

I am not sure but I thought Singapore had Malaysian stock. Just for sure it is only known for their breeding bull Chawang.

You'd assume so.

 

[MRJ]

I'd read in a few places that some theorised mainland working elephants had been historically brought over first by Tamils, then the British to Sri Lanka and interbred with the wild Sri Lankan subspecies making them all now a mix. Whether the subspecific status of Sri Lanka's elephants is yet to be debunked or not, I personally I find this theory rather ridiculous.

Love to be directed to any up to date studies if anyone has come across them. Also, the conclusion on Bornean elephants if anyone knows?



No Sri Lankan stock in there at all? Assuming they are indeed different?



You'd assume so.

Elephants were swum across Adams Bridge, a chain of islands that links India and Sri Lanka. But I heard it was the other way - Sri Lankan elephants exported to India. Elephants are pretty good swimmers, while we were there one had to be rescued by the navy swimming way out in the Indian Ocean in the wrong direction.

 

[toothlessjaws]

Elephants were swum across Adams Bridge, a chain of islands that links India and Sri Lanka. But I heard it was the other way - Sri Lankan elephants exported to India. Elephants are pretty good swimmers, while we were there one had to be rescued by the navy swimming way out in the Indian Ocean in the wrong direction.

I should clarify, what I though ridiculous about the theory I had read, is not that some Indian elephants might have been taken to Sri Lanka, but that somehow these Indian animals managed, in just a couple of hundred years, to cast their genetics so wide across the island that they effectively turned the entire, apparently distinctive, Sri Lankan elephant population into a more or less indistinguishable one from the mainland subspecies.

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

I should clarify, what I though ridiculous about the theory I had read, is not that some Indian elephants might have been taken to Sri Lanka, but that somehow these Indian animals managed, in just a couple of hundred years, to cast their genetics so wide across the island that they effectively turned the entire, apparently distinctive, Sri Lankan elephant population into a more or less indistinguishable one from the mainland subspecies.

The oceanic divide is not that big and it has been suggested that a landbridge existed in former geological time frames.