I would assume any grant of permission would probably include a commuted payment in lieu of provision on site.
Bristol Zoo (Closed) Bristol Zoo - 2022 planned closure of current site, and relocation to Wild Place site.
- Thread starter oflory
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I would assume any grant of permission would probably include a commuted payment in lieu of provision on site.
I like the possibility of "Ollie the olingo" or "potto pot noodles"
Maybe it is indeed innate to humans, this fascination with big cats and megafauna.
There was that study (was it E.O. Wilson?) that proposed that we like open spaces and lawns precisely due to our evolutionary history in the African grasslands so perhaps there is something similarly innate at work with large African (and what were once European too) species ?
When you think about it, the caves of Chauvet and Lascaux are testament to the fascination and reverence that Magdalenian era hunter-gatherer humans had for lions and bears and hoofstock.
However, all that considered and granted, I do not personally like a zoo to develop excessively along those lines for obvious ex-situ conservation based reasons.
Perhaps the best alternative (which I believe you are hinting at Andrew) is a few "charismatics" and many species of conservation concern which is arguably what Bristol had anyway with their gorillas and lions.
Longlive the Jersey spectacled bears, gorillas and orangutangs then ! (meerkats and Asian short clawed otters a different matter though ! ).
This is definitely the kind of approach I love best - and Bristol and Hamerton are probably the two best examples. Keep just enough crowd pullers to draw in the families wanting their big cat fix for a day out, then fill your available space with lots of smaller, more unusual, and rarer creatures. I'm sure most people on this site wouldn't care if Hamerton ditched the white tigers, but I suspect as Andrew has suggested that it would ultimately have dire repercussions for the amazing animal collection we love so much. It actually amazes me that they have made a success of a zoo in the middle of nowhere with not a lot in the way of megafauna - and thank goodness they have!
There is definitely a place for the 'big field' type collections I mentioned in my earlier post, and its the best approach for places with vast amounts of space I guess, but they're never going to be my favourites as I just love small mammals in particular. For me, a trip to Bristol was worth the admission fee just for the nocturnal house - I know they no longer have Sand Cats there but when they did, those and Aye Ayes in the same building was basically zoo heaven for me! I'd like to think that many visitors would be charmed by those species they'd not heard of before, even if they only really went to see the lions and penguins.
I'm afraid that in my opinion the phrase 'world class' has been totally devalued by a chap called B**** J****** who regularly appears in our news media.
But I note from the Charities Commission website that Bristol Zoological Society made a surplus of £3.4 million in the 3 years up to 2019 (on a turnover of about £12 million per year), having made small losses in the preceding 2 years. I dare say that all of that sum will have been used up before all the Covid restrictions are lifted. However this does show that the Bristol Zoological Society has been well managed in the past and their assets totalled almost £39 million at the end of last year. I'm not sure how much of that figure was the value of the Clifton site, but they should be able to provide good accommodation for the gorillas, Indian lions, penguins, reptiles and nocturnal creatures at Cribbs Causeway - which I imagine will be the major expenses involved. I just hope that the phrase 'world class' does not imply architectural extravaganzas.
But I note from the Charities Commission website that Bristol Zoological Society made a surplus of £3.4 million in the 3 years up to 2019 (on a turnover of about £12 million per year), having made small losses in the preceding 2 years. I dare say that all of that sum will have been used up before all the Covid restrictions are lifted. However this does show that the Bristol Zoological Society has been well managed in the past and their assets totalled almost £39 million at the end of last year. I'm not sure how much of that figure was the value of the Clifton site, but they should be able to provide good accommodation for the gorillas, Indian lions, penguins, reptiles and nocturnal creatures at Cribbs Causeway - which I imagine will be the major expenses involved. I just hope that the phrase 'world class' does not imply architectural extravaganzas.
Onychorhynchus coronatus
Well-Known Member
I suppose it is all subjective but I have to admit I'm not keen on white tigers but in the case of Jersey and their bears and great apes I could go with that and it is much more preferable.
Hamerton really do have some amazing species kept there and if the price to pay for these to be maintained is white tigers then I suppose that is one worth paying.
I almost see the approach as being a bit of a necessary evil really but agree that it is probably one that works in pulling in the customers whilst also maintaining species that really do need to be there in ex-situ terms.
Totally agree with you with regards to the smaller taxa at Bristol and I really hope that this culture of keeping them goes with them in the move to Wild place. Nevertheless, yes, despite having been there only once I think it is truly a shame what happened with the old site.
By the way, sand cats, when were these at Bristol ? Did they leave the collection recently ?
Onychorhynchus coronatus
Well-Known Member
Well thank you for answering the collared lemur question.
When I first heard about the situation with this species from @TeaLovingDave I was very impressed with how you managed to turn that slide towards the species dying out ex-situ around.
Why were so many zoos fed up with them / bored with them ?
It seems like total madness to me that a species that is in such need of ex-situ populations would be treated like yesterdays newspaper by zoos rather than these primates being a long-term commitment in terms of breeding and keeping them.
Sorry about the confusion with the word "charismatics". What I meant with that word was in the broader sense of species that are perceived to be particularly charismatic by or that are popular with the zoo going general public rather than specifically megafauna.
I find it very hard to believe that meerkats could have had their day. I guess I'll have to see it to believe it.
Given the fact your last visit was long before Wild Place was even open, and the aforementioned collection is pretty highly rated by Zoochatters both in terms of species they have obtained in the few short years they have been open, and the extremely high quality of the exhibits built there, I'd be interested to hear why you have such a low opinion of the place per the following:
I would much rather that wildplace was the one to have bit the dust and in fact I didn't think much of it to begin with anyway.
They held the species for over two decades, from 1996 to 2017, but managed to breed them only very fitfully - as such the last animals died due to old age in the fullness of time.
@Maguari, I can only echo what you wrote! A true shock the Clifton site will close. A quintessential zoo in an iconic location right in the midst of Bristol.
At the same, Wild Place offers so much more space and opportunity to develop and expand the Bristol Zoo into a truly great zoo with a large footprint! I really do hope they can realise the Zoo Vision they put forward for The Wild Place some time ago. Sumatran tiger - Indonesia Forest, Black Rhino - African Savannah et cetera.
Onychorhynchus coronatus
Well-Known Member
Quite complicated to explain why (though I wouldn't say I have a low opinion of the place as such) but one of the reasons that I am able to talk about would be purely down to my personal preference for Bristol.
I just liked the way the zoo looked and felt in the sense of the character of the place.
I think Bristol zoo managed to bridge the gap between being a collection with deep historic roots whilst also being modern very well. It managed this in a way that the London zoo evidently hasn't.
But of course for me probably the principal reason would be because of the smaller taxa kept of conservation concern and the focus on these at Bristol.
Oh, I fully understand (and agree) with your greater love for Bristol - it was your use of the phrase "in fact I didn't think much of it to begin with anyway" that gives the impression you have a low opinion of Wild Place.
Onychorhynchus coronatus
Well-Known Member
Oh no, I didn't intend for it to come across so dismissively but yes I do much prefer the Bristol zoo over wildplace.
Onychorhynchus coronatus
Well-Known Member
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I didn't know that. I think the cameraman/person was South African. I think Meerkats only became majorly popular in zoos after people saw them standing upright...and then the Insurance ads started- reasonable summary?
The reality, given the original Zoo's antiquity, is a shock- but all the time they have been running the two sites simultaneously I've been aware that it was creating a 'division of wealth' animal-wise, working against both. I think it is a very hard decision but the correct one.
Andrew Swales
Well-Known Member
Yes, all the above ground footage was done in the wild, but the underground burrows were 'fake' - for want of a better word... The BBC Natural History Unit was very good at this. In the early days we took a sloth down to a NHU lock-up in Bristol for a series called 'SuperSense'. The 'money shot' they wanted was a view of a hovering hummingbird through the sloths legs, in a programme discussing animal metabolism. The whole thing was filmed in an industrial unit, with the sloth on a branch suspended between two lighting tripods. I have somewhere, a series of photos taken from the sidelines. A fascinating couple of days, but expertly 'faked' just like a faked grand master painting; so good there is almost more skill involved than the original!
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Andrew Swales
Well-Known Member
By 'had-their-day' I did not mean they are likely to be deleted or replaced; they are probably now too well known (and expected!) and easily kept for any zoo with them to risk that. I meant that they are now too common to be much of a draw in their own right; certainly every child that wants a cuddly soft-toy meerkat now seems to have one. White Tiger softs (at least in a zoo which has the real thing) on the other hand continue to sell so well, it is difficult to keep the shelves stocked.
Just wondering if the land values at the site could of had anything to do with it?
Well it seems I may be the first to say it, five pages in, but good luck to Bristol Zoo with their relocation.
I hope they make enough money from the sale of the prime real estate to turn the 2nd site (which I hope gets rechristened Bristol Zoo), into a truly world class facility for their animals.
It is, after all, the animals that matter, not the ground we walk on when we visit or the gardens.
I can see no reason for some of the slightly overwrought comments-this has clearly long been on the cards, and this year has hastened the decision.
It is a shame London cannot do the same, as I believe (correct me if I'm wrong please) that they do not own the Regent's Park site and so would not gain financially by moving to Whipsnade.
Mind you, knowing London's management, they would probably spend the money on a fleet of shiny new cars each rather than on the animals, given their awful decisions in the past, Zuckerman period onwards.
There really is a site being strangled by the weight of history. Much better that the brutalist Elephant House is turned into the giant public toilet it has always resembled for the listed building lovies to cherish. Maybe the Mappins could be reconstructed as a ski slope?
Anyway, I can see the Bristol decision as nothing but a win. I hope and trust all the animals and keepers transition safely to their new home.
I hope they make enough money from the sale of the prime real estate to turn the 2nd site (which I hope gets rechristened Bristol Zoo), into a truly world class facility for their animals.
It is, after all, the animals that matter, not the ground we walk on when we visit or the gardens.
I can see no reason for some of the slightly overwrought comments-this has clearly long been on the cards, and this year has hastened the decision.
It is a shame London cannot do the same, as I believe (correct me if I'm wrong please) that they do not own the Regent's Park site and so would not gain financially by moving to Whipsnade.
Mind you, knowing London's management, they would probably spend the money on a fleet of shiny new cars each rather than on the animals, given their awful decisions in the past, Zuckerman period onwards.
There really is a site being strangled by the weight of history. Much better that the brutalist Elephant House is turned into the giant public toilet it has always resembled for the listed building lovies to cherish. Maybe the Mappins could be reconstructed as a ski slope?
Anyway, I can see the Bristol decision as nothing but a win. I hope and trust all the animals and keepers transition safely to their new home.
Thanks for the Sand Cat info. I think it was early 2000s when I saw them, so that fits in with your details. I feel even more chuffed now as I actually saw them with kittens who were very playful, so it seems I was even more lucky than I realised!
I wish more zoos had a good nocturnal house thinking about it!
For my sins I’ve only visited a few times, but it’s still incredibly sad news when you consider the history of the place.
Makes you wonder though if this will set a precedent for other city zoos in the UK.
Makes you wonder though if this will set a precedent for other city zoos in the UK.
Looking at the mood boards online, I'm particularly interested in what is planned for Phase 3 - it seems that a large area (in the original plans for the National Wildlife Conservation Park, this area was earmarked for both Tanzanian savannah and Nepalese grassland areas) will contain European bison, Przewalski's horses and red deer, if the accompanying images are to be believed.
I wonder if they will be in a more nature reserve-type setting (similar to what is happening at Wildwood). It certainly doesn't look like a series of smaller paddocks is planned for the area.
I wonder if they will be in a more nature reserve-type setting (similar to what is happening at Wildwood). It certainly doesn't look like a series of smaller paddocks is planned for the area.