I wasn't aware of Chester having ever had a (dedicated) minibus link - I was thinking of the zoo-sponsored service that used full-sized buses. More recently it was linked to the station by the park & ride then by the Stagecoach Liverpool service which is timed to take roughly 15 minutes from the railway station and 20 minutes from the bus station.
UK city zoos: do they have a future?
- Thread starter Panthera1981
- Start date
I wasn't aware of Chester having ever had a (dedicated) minibus link - I was thinking of the zoo-sponsored service that used full-sized buses. More recently it was linked to the station by the park & ride then by the Stagecoach Liverpool service which is timed to take roughly 15 minutes from the railway station and 20 minutes from the bus station.
Zoo's could quite easily run a mini bus from a dedicated rail station and have pre booked seats only and a dedicated time for departure and return to the station.
Maybe run a couple each way during the day but must be pre booked so the collection know how many passengers they will have before hand.
A fixed ticket rate could also include a small deduction from the entrance fee to make it more viable to passengers.
Maybe run a couple each way during the day but must be pre booked so the collection know how many passengers they will have before hand.
A fixed ticket rate could also include a small deduction from the entrance fee to make it more viable to passengers.
Your choice. Colwyn Bay choose to do it; you don't.
Presumably they felt it was worthwhile, you don't.
Andrew Swales
Well-Known Member
AdrianW1963 said:
Continuous repetition wont change the figures. I guess some zoos can continue to absorb the losses, but clearly most abandon the idea. If you take a step back from the theory and actually work-out the costs of buying and running such a vehicle, administering a pre-booking system, dealing with under and over subscription, training a minimum of 2 drivers for it, it becomes clear that it isn't 'quite easy' at all, and even if the Welsh Mountain Zoo does justify the losses, most of the biggest zoos are not prepared to divert funds to subsidise such, let alone smaller ones.
And, similarly, you continuously repeating that it is all fantasy and that it doesn't work doesn't change the fact that for some collections it does work. Even in New Zealand, which has a tiny population, there are free shuttles throughout the day between Zealandia and the city centre (in Wellington) and for Orana Park (in Christchurch) there is a fixed-time non-free shuttle from the city centre.
Providing either free or paid-for transport will work for some zoos and not for others.
It went from Chester railway station to the pedestrian entrance of the zoo, and was discontinued when said entrance was closed.
Andrew Swales
Well-Known Member
Exactly, this is precisely what I said. Some zoos might be able to stand subsidising such a venture, and I trust you you will forgive me for not knowing how this is funded in your examples, which you have not detailed. Transport is never free, someone has to pay for it - are these two paid for by the tax payer? - like the empty one which passes our gates twice a day in the wrong direction. My issue was with what had been written here, and that to simply state that it is easy for every zoo to put on such a mini-bus, is both an over simplification and not actually true.
edit - to take this further. I resent the comment that providing such a service for visitors is 'easy', and that it is our choice not to do so. This is not true either. We take our environmental responsibilities very seriously, and have thoroughly costed the options on several occasions, both with regard to non-car transport, and also the possible installation of electric car charging points to extend the energy production from our wind turbines, solar panel and biomass installations. Hamerton Zoo Park - Animal Park Huntingdon, Cambridgeshire
I can assure you that our position is a real world one and absolutely NOT a matter of our choosing not to bother.
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On another note, it might be interesting to work out how many major zoological collections in the UK *can* be accurately described as being located in city centres, and then make comparisons working from here.... a fair few city or major town zoos (Chester, Edinburgh and Paignton for instance) are distinctly collections of the suburbs rather than inner city.
Andrew Swales
Well-Known Member
Presumably they were country estate zoos initially? - and the cities have grown up around them.
Many smaller zoos have closed because with encroaching development, their sites have become just too valuable as real-estate - and as they say, 'everyone has their price'...
Dudley, Birmingham, London, can't think of many others, Newquay, Blackpool maybe?
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And worth noting that none of them are on sites that are likely to have a resale value for development - built on a hill round a listed building; sited within a park; leased within a (Royal?) park.
In many ways Bristol's position was unique - owned by the zoo on a flat, high-value site. And very small.
Both Newquay and Blackpool are in parts of open green spaces/parks, situated more in the suburbs of their towns, though Newquay doesn't warrant the term really...
Newquay has a tourist road 'train' that runs in the summer. It goes round the town and stops outside the zoo.
Andrew Swales
Well-Known Member
These are quite a common form of 'ride'/people-mover, and certainly used to be seen at most east-coast resorts, Mablethorpe, Skegness etc. They can generate decent profits, so I would guess are still in use.
If you add in that Bristol also own a huge estate a few miles up the road maybe it is a unique situation.
I think SZ was referring to uniqueness as far as city centre zoos go, rather than zoos in general - but as I know only a little about Flamingo Gardens and nothing at all about the other collections you cite, I wouldn't know for sure.
Another extant city centre zoo has occurred to me since I highlighted the question of how many still exist - Battersea Children's Zoo. Like one or two of the others, it is located within a park and as such the factors relating to these will quite likely also be factors here.
Andrew Swales
Well-Known Member
Yes. I deleted mine as most of those sites sold for building were in towns and villages, and not 'cities'. It is a pressure put on many sites as developments encroach. An example is the East of England Agricultural Show site at Peterborough - moved out of its city site into the country many years ago, and now eaten away by developers so badly as to be marginally un-economic, even pre-Covid.
I've only been to Bristol once, and not to either of its competitors. Just how far apart are the 3 - Bristol/Noahs/WildPlace ?
Per Google Maps, Noah's Ark is about 6.5 miles to the west of Bristol Zoo, whilst Wild Place is about 5.5 miles due north of Bristol Zoo - obviously routes may vary with traffic conditions and use of A-roads, and as such it appears both are pretty much 15 minutes drive from the zoo despite the slightly different distances.
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A point rather demonstrated by the fact that although the distance between Wild Place and Noah's Ark is 10 miles, they are *also* only 15 minutes apart due to the fact one takes the M5 to get between them.
Yes, the route between the Zoo and the M5/ WildPlace, though direct, can be quite congested at busy times, particularly around the Downs. What interests me at Bristol is that if you go the other way, leaving Clifton via the Suspension Bridge, you are almost immediately in rural Somerset on the other side of the Avon gorge, and Noah's Ark is then quite close.
Would Dudley Count as unique as it as 41 acres of unused land just past the Chimpanzee exhibit that was up for sale before the collection changed there minds