In fact, it is only known for definite for Chawang. The origins of the others including their only breeding cow Sri Nandong are unknown(s).
Australian and ( NZ) Elephants news and discussion
- Thread starter Jambo
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I guess six months from now, it’ll be the sad duty of @Chlidonias to rename this thread ‘Australian Elephants News and Discussion.’
I would hope Elephants could return to New Zealand in the future. Maybe Orana?
Orana Wildlife Park were hit hard by Covid and elephants would certainly be out of their reach in the immediate future; though I've always thought a herd of African elephants would be a brilliant addition to Orana (as would Common hippopotamus) - especially if Monarto were to ever go this route. I frequently find myself wondering how differently things might have turned out for African elephant in the region if Taronga Western Plains Zoo had succeeded in breeding them.
Its unlikely to happen in the future unless substantial amounts of money can be found to have elephants kept in a proper manor, for long term breeding requires larger amounts of space muti yards/barns (like at Dubbo) and specialised keepers, part of Aucklands problem is they were half in the door and half out of it.
More elephant news for the region. Luk Chai the Asian Elephant bull has arrived at Melbourne Zoo! He came from Taronga Western Plains Zoo. He will be introduced to the females for breeding and act as a mentor for their adolescent bull Man Jai.
A Massive Welcome for a Huge New Melbourne Zoo reisdent
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Melbourne could have an Elephant Calf by 2023 if everything goes well! Exciting development!
I’m visiting in a few days so it would be a pleasure to see him. It’s great to know that Melbourne have taken brilliant initiative with this import as it will allow them to successfully breed their females before the move to WORZ.This is pleasant news! I saw a video posted about 4 months ago of Luk Chai breeding one of the cows at TWPZ, so he definitely knows what to do. Shame it wasn't Putra Mas going instead, but alas, a breeding situation is a breeding situation all the same.
A video about Luk Chai's move to Melbourne.
Source: Zoo's Victoria's Facebook page
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Source: Zoo's Victoria's Facebook page
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Young elephant bulls frequently display mounting behaviour amongst themselves and with other conspecifics. It is another question whether he is able to sire or be accepted by unfamiliar, older cows of reproductive age as a breeding partner. Remember that even at 11 years of age a zoo born Asiatic elephant bulls is as yet an adolescent (and nothing near a mature bull of breeding age) and would require at least another 10+ years in the wilds to get to that stage. Hence, the phenomenon of bulls in this age range being planned for "breeding male" are somewhat an artificiality of zoo environments.
I am a very strong supporter+believer in having pubescent and adolescent Asiatic elephant bulls be maintained with or around an experienced breeding bull to get to know how to behave and get things done! Separate and bigger bull facilities are a must as is the need / requirement for Australian zoos to set up a bachelor male herd before none too long (preferably at a location where a mature and proven breeding bull is at work).
POST SCRIPTUM: Do not get me wrong, I support the move for now. Just so you know what the picture looks like without all the PR/marketing/social media attention ... taking away from some factual matters on the ground.
Elephantelephant
Well-Known Member
This is very great news! Of course, he is not yet fully adult, there is simply no such selection of elephant bulls in Australia. They could get 31-year-old Putra Mas from Perth Zoo, but they wants to keep their elephants until Tricia's death (but they could have moved Putra Mas before). I thought Melbourne would no longer breed elephants and was just waiting to they moved, but that's a great move. Although he is not yet fully adult, he will hopefully ensure that the cows will no longer be old for breeding after transport. In their case, every month is important for reproductive health.
What are the realistic options with bull Putra Mas at Perth Zoo?
Elephantelephant
Well-Known Member
Perth Zoo obviously wants to keep it with Permai until Tricia's death. Then they move somewhere. Since Dubbo and Melbourne, in the future Weribee, have a bull, I don't know where they will move them. It occurs to me that they could rebuild the group at the Taronga Zoo in Sydney, where they have only two cows. Or maybe move them to the Weribee Open Range Zoo if it has enough space. They could have two bulls.
Elephantelephant
Well-Known Member
Sydney Zoo Welcomes Two Bull Elephants
Here is the official statement that Kavi and Ashoka are already in Sydney. They seem to want to try to merge them with Saigon.
Here is the official statement that Kavi and Ashoka are already in Sydney. They seem to want to try to merge them with Saigon.
I'm well aware. I also support keeping immature males in the matriachal herd as long as possible, having good bachelor groups led by socially savvy bulls, and the like.
That said, have worked around asian elephants myself, have friends and past co-workers who work with *very* successful breeding herds, and am quite familiar with their reproductive potential in captivity.
While nothing is set in stone, I have seen video of this animal breeding (complete with insertion and intromission) a mature cow. He definitely knows how to breed a cow. Of course he could be infertile, or the older cows at the new facility might not be accepting of him, or the young cow might not be willing to stand for him due to lack of socialization with a mature breeding bull, but overall, there is a good likelihood he will be a successful breeder, and this is not unique in captivity.
Despite your constant notation that these young bulls should, by all accounts, not be successful breeders at young ages in zoos, you constantly seem to be proven wrong on that. A zoo environment is far different from the wild, and these animals, along with being developmentally far more advanced than wild animals at the same age, are also in, like you said, somewhat unique social situations, where a young male is the only possible option for a breeding bull.
With a little light looking, some young sires in "recent" years that prove you wrong are (at conception) for Asians, Bancho at 6, Kosala at 6 years 10 months, Winner at 7, Kiba at 7, Gung (Luk Chai's sire) at 7, Mac at 8, Romeo at 9, Emmett at 9, Albert at 9, Upali at 9 years 8 months, Doc at 9 years 10 months, Johnson at 10, Chanda at 10, Chang at 10,Assam at 10, Timber at 10, Thai at 10, Gajendra at 10, Po Chin at 11, Raja at 11, Ramon at 12, and Sibu at 12. That's 22 different animals from a number of different lines, on a number of different continents, all successfully siring offspring at young ages, and pretty much all of them aside from Albert sired their offspring through natural breeding. I think its fairly safe to say an 11 and a half year old bull asian elephant in a zoo environment can be generally well regarded as having strong breeding potential. They might not be anywhere near physically mature at that age, but they are most definitely sexually mature.
Wow, this is huge news! I’m thrilled Melbourne are finally taking a step towards breeding their females.
Luk Chai may be young; but it’s worth noting that at his age (11 years), his sire had already sired two offspring (one of which was to an adult female). Combined with Luk Chai’s social background, there’s no reason to doubt he won’t be successful.
I would have to agree if he has the size he should be able to do the job lets hope so!
I am pleased with this out come I only wish the new elephant exhibit at Werribee zoo was put first before the Bison paddock
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They have already introduced the two bulls to Saigon. The video below shows them all together in the exhibit.
Source: 7News Sydney's Facebook page
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I’m not sure Burgess understands the social structure of elephants when he makes comments like ‘Saigon will be a matriarch to these boys and teach them the ropes.’ I’d like to know what he thinks an elderly cow from an abnormal background would teach two bulls from a normal social background, who are entering adolescence. Melbourne have the right idea, getting Luk Chai to mentor the younger bull, Man Jai.
Nonetheless, Saigon’s clearly benefiting from their company; and until they reach adolescence and their desire to spar continuously becomes intolerable, I’m hope she will continue to enjoy contact with them.
Thats really nice to see her having some company!