Its seems to me that its a bit of a waste having them just sit some where in a bachelor holding yard, As with the two young bulls from dublin moving them at that age over a big distance would be a wiser option than trying to do that with an adult bull. I am surprised more zoos are not trying to aquire a Radza son while young?
Australian and ( NZ) Elephants news and discussion
- Thread starter Jambo
- Start date
I do not think it is the lack of interest. No need for a diatribe over smaller and bigger facilities. Within the EEP/EAZA there is a real need for spaces for bachelor herds and elderly female groups away from the breeding institutions.
Secondly, I would not underestimate the bureaucracy of zoo elephant transfers over Continents. And quite a few times, you have to look within the own backyard for bureaucracy, excessive demands, non streamlined vet regulations and outright outlandish requests. Most of the time the red tape and bureaucracy get so intense that the timeframe or window of opportunity gets missed.
It seems more recently, finally the various zoo regions have come together and maybe there will be a common ground operation and approach how to fly these animal transfers and exchanges intercontinental.
BTW: I personally know of several instances where pachyderm transfers planned US to Europe got cancelled!
Attempts to Breed African Elephants at Dubbo (1986)
I came across this article from 1986 re. attempts at breeding the African elephants at Taronga Western Plains Zoo: Elephants' sex lives largely a mystery - The Canberra Times (ACT : 1926 - 1995) - 5 Mar 1986
The zoo's herd at the time contained 1.3 African elephant:
1.0 Congo (1958): Arrived 1983, died 2000
0.1 Yum Yum (1969): Arrived 1977, died 2010
0.1 Cuddles (1973): Arrived 1977, died 2017
0.1 Cheri (1974): Arrived 1977, died 2007
They appeared to have an ideal starting base of a proven bull and multiple prime aged cows; but sadly never experienced success in breeding.
I came across this article from 1986 re. attempts at breeding the African elephants at Taronga Western Plains Zoo: Elephants' sex lives largely a mystery - The Canberra Times (ACT : 1926 - 1995) - 5 Mar 1986
You would think that when two four-tonne mammals wanted to get affectionate it would be quite obvious, but in fact much to the chagrin of zoo officials who would like them to breed in captivity, the secret sexual life of elephants remains largely a mystery.
Mr Bruce Campbell, head keeper of the Western Plains Zoo at Dubbo, has been overseeing a research program aimed at charting the sexual activity of the zoo's African elephants. It is not easy because elephants are believed to have a four-monthly oestrus cycle and a gestation period of 24 months. However, the open range environment of the zoo is ideal for such research because the conditions, which aim to simulate the elephants' natural habitat, stimulate their normal social and biological behaviour. Many wild animals, including elephants, suppress their normal behaviour when kept in closely confined quarters and fail to breed.
The zoo has four elephants of breeding age: females Cherie, Yum Yum and Cuddles, and a male, Congo. Wild elephants live in sexually discrete groups and get together only for sexual encounters, so this is simulated at the zoo. The sexes are kept in separate enclosures, but in the morning when the elephants are let out of their night quarters, the females are led past the male in an adjacent pen. He checks the females' scent trail and the keeper makes notes on their behaviour. If a female is feeling particularly affectionate she might present her rump to the male and he might respond with a sniff of the appropriate parts of her anatomy.
The keepers have devised a scale on which to score the degree of enthusiasm with which the elephants carry out these activities, and by charting the results they hope to establish when the females are most likely to conceive.
If the activity is particularly enthusiastic the male is let in with the females. This has happened on several occasions at the zoo, but only once has the mating act been observed because they are very shy about when and where they do it.
The aim of the program is of course to breed elephants. Very few are successfully bred in captivity, and it is easy to see why. After two years Western Plains Zoo staff are still waiting to see some results, but they are confident that as more is known about the elephants' sexual activity they will eventually be able to breed them.
Mr Bruce Campbell, head keeper of the Western Plains Zoo at Dubbo, has been overseeing a research program aimed at charting the sexual activity of the zoo's African elephants. It is not easy because elephants are believed to have a four-monthly oestrus cycle and a gestation period of 24 months. However, the open range environment of the zoo is ideal for such research because the conditions, which aim to simulate the elephants' natural habitat, stimulate their normal social and biological behaviour. Many wild animals, including elephants, suppress their normal behaviour when kept in closely confined quarters and fail to breed.
The zoo has four elephants of breeding age: females Cherie, Yum Yum and Cuddles, and a male, Congo. Wild elephants live in sexually discrete groups and get together only for sexual encounters, so this is simulated at the zoo. The sexes are kept in separate enclosures, but in the morning when the elephants are let out of their night quarters, the females are led past the male in an adjacent pen. He checks the females' scent trail and the keeper makes notes on their behaviour. If a female is feeling particularly affectionate she might present her rump to the male and he might respond with a sniff of the appropriate parts of her anatomy.
The keepers have devised a scale on which to score the degree of enthusiasm with which the elephants carry out these activities, and by charting the results they hope to establish when the females are most likely to conceive.
If the activity is particularly enthusiastic the male is let in with the females. This has happened on several occasions at the zoo, but only once has the mating act been observed because they are very shy about when and where they do it.
The aim of the program is of course to breed elephants. Very few are successfully bred in captivity, and it is easy to see why. After two years Western Plains Zoo staff are still waiting to see some results, but they are confident that as more is known about the elephants' sexual activity they will eventually be able to breed them.
The zoo's herd at the time contained 1.3 African elephant:
1.0 Congo (1958): Arrived 1983, died 2000
0.1 Yum Yum (1969): Arrived 1977, died 2010
0.1 Cuddles (1973): Arrived 1977, died 2017
0.1 Cheri (1974): Arrived 1977, died 2007
They appeared to have an ideal starting base of a proven bull and multiple prime aged cows; but sadly never experienced success in breeding.
The zoo herd was in fact the four UK imports that arrived in 1977, Cheri, Cuddles,Yum Yum and the bull David from the Longleat Safari Park. I saw them not long after they arrived in fact the outside exhibit area still had small trees growing in it untouched with everything looking all very new.
The Bull Congo from what I can remember came from the Los Angles Safari Park, I believe he was said at that time to be the largest African bull in a zoo.(Not sure if it was meant in the US or worldwide).
Congo came much later on down the track with one cow who seem to have a permanent bent ear.
I saw all at a later date together but some times David and Congo shared a paddock together.
I do know that the zoo contacted the elephant team at the Toronto zoo for advice about breeding African elephants as they were quite successful there with 8 cows and the 1 bull. I use to have a family member working there with the herd back in the day.
Yes, Congo arrived in 1983 with a cow named Toto that died in 1984. In Postcards from the Zoo, Darrill Clements described him as a large and impressive bull that made an impression on the three cows.
David (not mentioned) sadly died aged 19 on 30/06/1977.
I am sure David lived longer than this I am sure this is not correct!
No, sadly he was euthanised in 1977 after suffering from arthritis:
David, an African savanna elephant at Taronga Western Plains Zoo
He clearly didn't die before he was even imported into Australia! He died in 1987.
The four young African Elephants (David, Cuddles, Yum Yum and Cherie) arrived in December 1977. David died in 1987, Cherie in 2007, Yum Yum in 2010 and Cuddles in 2017.
In 1983, a further two African Elephants, Congo and Toto arrived. Toto sadly died the following year whilst Congo died in 2000.
There was also a female named Nyla who was imported in 1983 at the age of 14 from Lion Country Safari. She died shortly after her arrival to Taronga Western Plains.
I dont know how I missed the last import "Nyla"as I dont remember this at all. Would there be any pics of her anywhere?
Not any that I can find. She’s mentioned on the database, but her exact date of death is unknown. It’s most likely she died almost immediately after she arrived at Taronga Western Plains. It is mentioned she was a former Movie animal.
Nyla, an African savanna elephant at Taronga Western Plains Zoo
I am just wondering If this is one of the young elephants in the 1962 John Wayne movie Hartari, I do know at least one of them ended up going to the San Deigo zoo then on to the SD wild animal park. Also the Black rhino caught in the movie went to the US perhaps also San Deigo zoo. I am surprised I had not known of this animal ever arriving.
I am just wondering If this is one of the young elephants in the 1962 John Wayne movie Hartari, I do know at least one of them ended up going to the San Deigo zoo then on to the SD wild animal park. Also the Black rhino caught in the movie went to the US perhaps also San Deigo zoo. I am surprised I had not known of this animal ever arriving.
If you had a friend that worked at the Zoo at the time, and you didn’t know about the arrival, than it’s possible Nyla might have died in transit or within hours after her arrival.
Both Nyla and Congo came from Lion Country Safari, and it’s possible that Congo arrived as a replacement for Nyla at Western Plains, as Nyla died soon after she was sent there. At the time of Hatari’s release (1962), Congo was a movie Elephant, but he and Nyla did not have the same owner, so I don’t think it’s likely Nyla was in the movie.
I had family working at the Toronto zoo as mention up above not at any other zoo/s mentioned in the thread.
At Melbourne Zoo, Luk Chai has already been introduced to the female herd and young bull Man Jai.
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The Future of Elephants at Taronga Zoo
Taronga Zoo have posted an update on their master plan, which no longer appears to include plans for upgrading the elephant facilities (suggesting they’ve been abandoned or postponed):
Building a Better Zoo
This is likely an indication of what many of us have speculated that the two female elephants will be relocated to Taronga Western Plains Zoo in the not too distant future.
With the region’s zoos abandoning the practice of keeping elephants in city zoos, this seems an inevitable decision - and one that is in the best interests of the elephants.
Taronga Zoo have posted an update on their master plan, which no longer appears to include plans for upgrading the elephant facilities (suggesting they’ve been abandoned or postponed):
Building a Better Zoo
This is likely an indication of what many of us have speculated that the two female elephants will be relocated to Taronga Western Plains Zoo in the not too distant future.
With the region’s zoos abandoning the practice of keeping elephants in city zoos, this seems an inevitable decision - and one that is in the best interests of the elephants.
toothlessjaws
Well-Known Member
With elephants vacating all these expensive asian themed exhibits, featuring deep swimming pools, one would hope Australian zoos reconsider their abandonment of a Malayan tapir breeding program.
An update on their introductions so far:
It’s interesting how Luk Chai is acting as a mentor to Man Jai (who is only four years younger than him) so well, when the role he is playing is typically performed by mature bulls e.g. Bong Su to Ongard; or at least a decade older e.g. Gung to Luk Chai. Luk Chai is clearly demonstrating patience, allowing Man Jai to test his strength against him; when he could easily overpower him.
It’s not hard to see why Luk Chai excels in this area. As the oldest of the first three calves born at Taronga (each eight months apart), he would allow the other two to climb all over him; and later was chosen to be introduced to his mother’s next calf - born seven years after him.
I look forward to seeing Luk Chai continue to mentor Man Jai; as well as his own sons in years to come!
Luk Chai has defenitly exceeded expectations with his introductions to not only Man Jai, but the girls as well. He is very calm and laid back, it would be interesting to know if his father Gung was similar personality wise at Luk Chai’s age. He is also very patient, which is a brilliant trait for a bull to have. From personal observation, he gave a lot of his own time to interact with the girls when they came over to his gate (as they were separated). He would definitely make a great father, hopefully in the near future.