Nobody was breeding flamingos in those days, modern diets have made all the difference. It’s likely they started off with reasonable numbers of both taxa
Adelaide Zoo So what happened to Greater???
- Thread starter Sarus Crane
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I think it's a bit difficult to compare Adelaide Zoo's experience in the early 1900s to Auckland's more recent importation. In any case, from 1919 to 1933 Adelaide Zoo imported 34 Greater Flamingos to establish their flock. They only ever imported 4 Chilean Flamingos in 1948. Of course being the era that it was, there was no breeding (as already mentioned above) and this number slowly dwindled.
How many of those were alive when zoos around the world began regularly breeding them?
I'm not sure about when flamingos started regularly breeding in captivity (I'll let someone else with more knowledge about that answer your question). What I do know is that by the late 1970s the flock at Adelaide Zoo was reduced to two Chileans and two Greaters therefore having little chance of breeding with such a small group of ageing birds.
Yes I believe flocks need to be at least 15-20 Flamingos for breeding to occur.
Yes. It seems like it was a similar story for the last few flamingos at Taronga Zoo as well. They imported 20 Chileans in August 1948 and that number again dwindled until the last one died in 2009. They tried using mirrors to get them breeding in the 1980s to no success: Taronga Farewells Last Flamingo
The mirrors sound like an innovative idea!
Very first successful breeding of flamingos in zoos dates in late 1950s, but it became common occurence only in 1980s.
The mirror trick is very old and actually not effective. I have seen maaaybe 1 study that showed it helped to increase courtship displays in very small colony. But in normal zoo setting, it is basically useless and believe me, very many zoos tried it so far.
The mirror trick is very old and actually not effective. I have seen maaaybe 1 study that showed it helped to increase courtship displays in very small colony. But in normal zoo setting, it is basically useless and believe me, very many zoos tried it so far.
Andrew Swales
Well-Known Member
FBBird is quite right about modern diets. Historically Chileans were commonly kept in waterfowl collections as imported birds could be purchased for around £40 each. They were usually just ornament, kept in small numbers and fed on wheat and chicken pellets like the ducks.
34 Greaters should have been enough if the sex ratio was OK, had modern diets been available. We received a flock of two dozen when Blackbrook closed, and they had produced an odd chick there. Since adding them to our existing birds the flock is now breeding every year and is around 40 birds. Some flocks, especially Chileans, can easily be disturbed and halt all breeding activity, which also happens in the wild; and Cubans seem to start breeding in smaller flocks. Mirrors seem novel idea, but in practice we found them useless, with the birds only responding to the hustle and bustle, and noise, of a tight displaying flock.
edit - other 'myths' which we have disproved are that deep water for swimming is needed for mating, and that pinioned birds cannot mate successfully.
I know of three instances of very small groups attempting to breed:
*two pairs of Lessers in a relatively small aviary were said to have laid, but deserted owing to interference from other birds
*group of six Chileans reared a chick
*small group (maybe seven) Greaters in a long narrow aviary produced a fertile egg, artificially incubated and hand reared
The last case was in a zoo, where the public passed very close to the birds, and it is possible the close proximity of people in some way replicated the noise and bustle of a flamingo colony, and helped stimulate breeding behaviour.
*two pairs of Lessers in a relatively small aviary were said to have laid, but deserted owing to interference from other birds
*group of six Chileans reared a chick
*small group (maybe seven) Greaters in a long narrow aviary produced a fertile egg, artificially incubated and hand reared
The last case was in a zoo, where the public passed very close to the birds, and it is possible the close proximity of people in some way replicated the noise and bustle of a flamingo colony, and helped stimulate breeding behaviour.
From what I’ve read online (and observed at Auckland Zoo), flamingos form long term monogamous pairs. It’s obvious that having a large founder base would give them more mate choice and increases the odds successful pairs will be formed.
Of the now seven successful chicks hatched at Auckland Zoo, three have been born to the same pair; and two to a second pair - suggesting those pairs will reliably breed in the future; while conversely, there’s probably some individuals/pairs who will never breed.
Of the now seven successful chicks hatched at Auckland Zoo, three have been born to the same pair; and two to a second pair - suggesting those pairs will reliably breed in the future; while conversely, there’s probably some individuals/pairs who will never breed.
This is actually very unnatural for flamingos. Yes, it is often seen in zoos, but this is due to low pool of sexual partners and is not normal. Wild flamingos NEVER pair with the same partner more than 1 season. And if wild flamingo pair loses egg/chick and decides to try again with a new egg in the same season, they will most likely chose a different partner too.
@Jana . What zoos would you know of that do breed them in larger numbers in Europe or even in the US? Thanks!
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What species?
Any species
Any species
So, I will concentrate on Europe. Around year 2000, no flamingo species was yet self-sustaining in EAZA zoos, too few zoos bred them. Greaters were first to reach that status, they seem to be the easiest zoo species and well suited for continental Europe. Caribbeans reached that status within last decade, Chileans are approaching that now I would say despite high mortality of their chicks. Lessers are hard nut to crack, still faaar away but with good steps lately. The two high Andrean species are basicaly doomed.
Some good reagular breeders of Greaters - Ohrada, Dvur Kralove, Olomouc, Zlin, Jihlava, Prague, Bratislava, Vienna, Budapest, Basel, Slimbridge, Bussolengo, GaiaPark last year.
Caribbeans - Ostrava, Dresden, Heidelberg, Slimbridge, Chester, Avifauna...
Lessers - Leipzig, Karlsruhe last year
So overall would you believe that the bigger the numbers in a flock the better the results for the breeding?
According to EAZA husbandry guidelines a minimum of 40 birds should be maintained for 'regular breeding.’
This article certainly supports this re. Chilean flamingo:
Using data on flocks of flamingos in Britain and Ireland, the relationship between flock size and breeding in captive flamingos was examined. Breeding flamingo flocks were significantly larger than nonbreeding flocks and larger flocks bred more frequently than smaller flocks. All Chilean flocks containing more than 40 birds have bred successfully; however, one flock of only 4 Chilean Flamingos has reared at least one chick. All Caribbean flocks over 20 birds have successfully reared a chick, yet the smallest flock to rear a chick was one of 14 birds.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/zoo.1430110402
Andrew Swales
Well-Known Member
It may be that close confinement could be a factor. Certainly the first eggs produced by our Greaters were indoors during the winter in a very small (temporary) winter house, where they were very tight. They could not nest and incubate of course, but now the flock has started, they have continued annually in the new permanent (and much larger) accommodation. Larger flocks would give the same feeling of security.
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I believe a few years ago within the UK there was a move within the zoos there to transfer any and all small flocks of the Chilean Flamingos to other zoos that had larger groups to give them a better chance of breeding success!