Frustratingly if the government in charge of a country (any country) has no interest in protecting their own wildlife there is little anyone can do. Such an awful situation. 
Can the Vaquita porpoise be saved ?
- Thread starter vogelcommando
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I understand it is a very difficult problem to deal with, both sides have arguments, and both in this case are not willing to compromise apparently. The problem I have with sea sheperds is how agressive and degrading to locals they are.
I can imagine why they could be angry and that this anger and sometimes disrespect comes from their "noble" motivations, but this is no way to deal with a problem. I also get that there is no better solution at the moment, but I believe this is not the right way to do things.
How can you hope for the mentalities to change if all you do is give them more reasons to feel different, less educated or judged ? For the mexicans, the gringos on the ship are just ruining their business for 10 dolphins, they probably don't have the education to actually feel concerned by the problem.
In this matter, there might not be other solutions, but while the motive behind Sea sheperd might be ethicaly right, the way the deal with problems is far from ideal and is definitely not going to change things, it is a bandage on an open wound, in Mexico or elsewhere.
Onychorhynchus coronatus
Well-Known Member
Frustratingly if the government in charge of a country (any country) has no interest in protecting their own wildlife there is little anyone can do. Such an awful situation.
I agree but the thing with sea shepherd is that they are belligerent and controversial activists and have more in common with the animal rights activists than conservationists. Personally I don't consider them as conservationists but rather as animal rights activists.
Yes, some of their work is admirable, but they enflame and escalate situations and are seemingly incapable of understanding the local socio-economic conditions of the fishing communities who they deem as "the enemy". This is not a very helpful stance at all to say the least and in fact very destructive for conservation.
Ideally the long-term ground work in terms of community outreach and the social science aspects of conservation of the vaquita should have been established many years / decades ago but for whatever reason this didn't happen and now at the last hour this is the result.
Onychorhynchus coronatus
Well-Known Member
I don't know if it is a case of the locals feeling "judged" or made to feel more ignorant but rather that they are specifically being labeled and treated as "the enemy" by a bunch of entitled American hippies on a sailing ship who are sabotaging their livelihoods.
In Mexico (and wider Latin America) there are very real and justified historic reasons why Americans are not very well liked and a general feeling that the USA through its millitary, economic and cultural imperialism sabotages the country and its development economically , politically and socially.
This kind of behaviour from sea shepherd just confirms that kind of narrative and dynamic and undermines conservation through enflaming the situation even more and burning bridges in terms of dialogue.
This is why you don't bring in an entitled bunch of first world hippies to deal with complex conservation situations in the developing world at the last hour.
Moreover, this is why at the first sign of a drastic population decline of a species due to anthropogenic drivers you get busy with real long-term "boots on the ground" conservation efforts that involve and engage with the local community.
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You've said it better than I could. Only thing I wouldn't call them hippies, as many hippies wouldn't like to be compared to the Sea sheperds guys
Problem is, no one was willing to do the work needed in that case and the Mexican government didn't do anything. Do you think the Vaquita can still be saved ?
Onychorhynchus coronatus
Well-Known Member
You've said it better than I could. Only thing I wouldn't call them hippies, as many hippies wouldn't like to be compared to the Sea sheperds guys
Problem is, no one was willing to do the work needed in that case and the Mexican government didn't do anything. Do you think the Vaquita can still be saved ?
To me I would classify them as hippies, like I said some of their work is admirable but I believe their approach is wrong and too heavy handed and rather imperialistic.
I think that this death of the fisherman and the resulting dynamic which will probably emerge actually means that Sea shepherd will have effectively ****ed up the effort to save the vaquita even more and they can therefore count themselves as partly responsible for whatever transpires in terms of the extinction of this species.
Yep, the Mexican government should have taken note of the decline a long time ago and implemented a conservation programe for the species but they didn't and this is the result.
I honestly don't know but all things considered it is beginning to look like it may be too late to save the vaquita now which is frankly heartbreaking.
We should have learned our lesson with the baijii dolphin two decades ago and evidently didn't.
I never said anything at all about sea shepherd in my post, so I am not sure why you are quoting me and then talking about them?
@AD, I assume you will go and attend?
I feel like he would need a time machine for that...
Damn, I dunno what happened, I imagined somehow flipped from the wrong page.
Inexcusable.
Onychorhynchus coronatus
Well-Known Member
Onychorhynchus coronatus
Well-Known Member
I quite like the idea of a time machine to time travel and right conservation wrongs.
Prevén expulsar a Sea Shepherd tras conflicto con pescadores en zona de vaquita marina
Asociación de Zoológicos , Criaderos y Acuarios de Mexico , which is the Mexican equivalent to the AZA, has stated that it considers that Sea Sheperd should leave Mexico and that Mexican authorities should be solely responsible for the protection of the vaquita. I was surprised by this.
Asociación de Zoológicos , Criaderos y Acuarios de Mexico , which is the Mexican equivalent to the AZA, has stated that it considers that Sea Sheperd should leave Mexico and that Mexican authorities should be solely responsible for the protection of the vaquita. I was surprised by this.
Onychorhynchus coronatus
Well-Known Member
Its a good move but the question is whether the Mexican government will step up to this responsibility because historically it clearly hasn't done enough (to put it charitably).
México presenta plan para proteger a la vaquita marina; informará a EU sobre el detalle de las acciones
The Mexican government has finally presented a complete plan for the protection of the vaquita. Close cooperation with the United States environmental authorities is presented. The participation of Sea Shepard is not mentioned.
The Mexican government has finally presented a complete plan for the protection of the vaquita. Close cooperation with the United States environmental authorities is presented. The participation of Sea Shepard is not mentioned.
I would favour a compensation scheme for the fishermen and heavy penalisation of those seen to infringe on the exclusion zone. Also, the fact that the fisheries industry is near collapse thanks to overfishing requires a total overhaul of this industry. It is bordering on the criminal negligence.
Glad there is now a transboundary cross border plan for USA and Mexico in terms of vaquita dolphins.
The fact that the Mexican government has just presented an official plan for the protection of the vaquita which also includes binational measures with the United States is certainly due to pressure from the new administration in Washington which is aware of environmental issues. It good to know that the Vaquita has new friends in high places. I only hope it is not too late.
Onychorhynchus coronatus
Well-Known Member
Yes, I agree the timing definitely seems to have coincided with the new administration.
Now, I hope that the presence and pressure of the new administration can put a grip (or perhaps a noose) around Bolsonaro's administration.
Both really. I think the administrative clout of the new administration coupled with already existing initiatives for pronghorn, Californian condor and Mexican wolf can create even stronger links between USFWS and PROFEPA.
Onychorhynchus coronatus
Well-Known Member
I certainly hope so, it would be brilliant if something can be done about the vaquita but I really find it difficult to see any hope with that species, I fear that it is too far gone at this point in time.
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