Zoo Inventory for North America (American Zootierliste)?

I think another issue with an American ZTL is the exact reason why ZTL cancelled their plans to expand to cover American collections: some major American zoos are very overprotective over their species list and have threatened legal actions (however weak) against sites publicly posting stocklists. This is also the main reason ZIMS is now private as far as I've heard. Even then, several zoos have refused to join ZIMS for the sake of keeping their stocklists a mystery for some reason.

~Thylo
 
ThylacineAlive said:
I think another issue with an American ZTL is the exact reason why ZTL cancelled their plans to expand to cover American collections: some major American zoos are very overprotective over their species list and have threatened legal actions (however weak) against sites publicly posting stocklists. This is also the main reason ZIMS is now private as far as I've heard. Even then, several zoos have refused to join ZIMS for the sake of keeping their stocklists a mystery for some reason.

~Thylo
Click to expand...

Are you able to say which major American zoos have done this? And do people have any idea why so many zoos don't want their species lists publicly available? To me, it just provides an incentive to visit the zoo when I see what rare species they hold.
 
Okapi Lover said:
Are you able to say which major American zoos have done this? And do people have any idea why so many zoos don't want their species lists publicly available? To me, it just provides an incentive to visit the zoo when I see what rare species they hold.
Click to expand...

I don't know which, but I'd assume the ones which refused to join ZIMS would be at least some of the guilty ones. This could not be true as well, btw, it's just what an admin from ZTL told me once and I know privacy is why ZIMS was privatized.

~Thylo
 
This is something I have been thinking of for quite some time now. Is the only problem the actual 'coding' or website design? As far as I know, I think from volunteers solely from zoochat a North American/ USA database could be fairly reliable and invaluable for figuring out rarities, etc.
 
ChunkyMunky pengopus said:
This is something I have been thinking of for quite some time now. Is the only problem the actual 'coding' or website design? As far as I know, I think from volunteers solely from zoochat a North American/ USA database could be fairly reliable and invaluable for figuring out rarities, etc.
Click to expand...

That isn't the only problem. Many US zoos don't want their lists to be general knowledge; that's why Species360 is private.
 
TinoPup said:
That isn't the only problem. Many US zoos don't want their lists to be general knowledge; that's why Species360 is private.
Click to expand...
Does there any reasonable ground for them to do so (besides those ones under the counter)?
Just couldn't get why they so resisting letting others know what they hold.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CMP
Would it be possible to build up a list of animals in American zoos using websites and visits?
 
itsallfaction said:
Does there any reasonable ground for them to do so (besides those ones under the counter)?
Just couldn't get why they so resisting letting others know what they hold.
Click to expand...

Privacy or being "afraid" of theft would be some official explanation, but in truth they would rather avoid scrutiny I guess... I don't think there would be any legal basis to stop if people tried to do it anyway (though there would be zoos threatening with lawsuits....), especially if one only focuses on stuff that is on-show or if the presence has been publicly acknowledged...
 
lintworm said:
Privacy or being "afraid" of theft would be some official explanation, but in truth they would rather avoid scrutiny I guess... I don't think there would be any legal basis to stop if people tried to do it anyway (though there would be zoos threatening with lawsuits....), especially if one only focuses on stuff that is on-show or if the presence has been publicly acknowledged...
Click to expand...

Are there really any zoos you think would threaten lawsuits for disclosing their species lists? If so are you ok with naming them (or PM'ing me with them)?
 
Dassie rat said:
Would it be possible to build up a list of animals in American zoos using websites and visits?
Click to expand...
It would be difficult, but yes, it could definitely work. I'd love it if a group of us zoochatters tackled this project though, get a database for species kept in US. We probably have members who visit just about every zoological facility in the country. If someone is going to attempt this, PM me and I can assist with the facilities I am familiar with.
 
lintworm said:
Privacy or being "afraid" of theft would be some official explanation, but in truth they would rather avoid scrutiny I guess... I don't think there would be any legal basis to stop if people tried to do it anyway (though there would be zoos threatening with lawsuits....), especially if one only focuses on stuff that is on-show or if the presence has been publicly acknowledged...
Click to expand...
It is probably for the best that the focus should be on what is available to the public. As far as I know, cataloging what you saw publicly available isn't really harming anyone or deserving of legal action, but it always could happen :cool:
 
Dassie rat said:
If a species is listed on a Zoo's website, it's not being kept secret.
Click to expand...
It also isnt being kept a secret if it's on Exhibit at said zoo. Really a zoo can't hide the species it holds on Exhibit, as anyone can walk in and make a list of the species that they see. Afterwards, the individual can do whatever they want with this list they made, and there is likely nothing the zoo can do about it.
 
German Zoo World said:
I think it would be great to have an American Zootierliste.
Click to expand...
I think the only thing stopping us at this point is the actual creation and hosting of the website. Otherwise, there are probably enough willing members at most major zoos, at least, to keep an updated list for those. For smaller and more obscure zoos, the lists will inevitably be less accurate, but I feel as if this is no big deal because smaller american zoos (normally) don't have the most exciting species. Either way, the lists could be updated enough, and it would be much better than not having any list
 
ChunkyMunky pengopus said:
I think the only thing stopping us at this point is the actual creation and hosting of the website. Otherwise, there are probably enough willing members at most major zoos, at least, to keep an updated list for those. For smaller and more obscure zoos, the lists will inevitably be less accurate, but I feel as if this is no big deal because smaller american zoos (normally) don't have the most exciting species. Either way, the lists could be updated enough, and it would be much better than not having any list
Click to expand...
Well finding someone to program and create the website probably wouldn't be too hard considering Zootierliste doesn't appear to be that complicated. You could probably just build it with like WIX or something.
 
ChunkyMunky pengopus said:
For smaller and more obscure zoos, the lists will inevitably be less accurate, but I feel as if this is no big deal because smaller american zoos (normally) don't have the most exciting species.
Click to expand...
I'd definitely disagree with this, often obsucre smaller zoos hold rare species that for whatever reason cannot be found in AZA zoos; for example, Booted Macaques at Catocin Zoo.

I would argue an American ZTL would be more important for smaller zoos given the relative scarcity in information compared to larger zoos, which often have extensive species lists posted on this site as well as hundreds of photos.

As for the ZTL idea itself, I do think it's a good idea and would be a fantastic resource, but I'd doubt how effective it would be considering how little some of the smaller zoos are visited, even compared to smaller collections in Europe.
 
TZDugong said:
I'd definitely disagree with this, often obsucre smaller zoos hold rare species that for whatever reason cannot be found in AZA zoos; for example, Booted Macaques at Catocin Zoo.

I would argue an American ZTL would be more important for smaller zoos given the relative scarcity in information compared to larger zoos, which often have extensive species lists posted on this site as well as hundreds of photos.

As for the ZTL idea itself, I do think it's a good idea and would be a fantastic resource, but I'd doubt how effective it would be considering how little some of the smaller zoos are visited, even compared to smaller collections in Europe.
Click to expand...
Fair enough, but I feel that just because more obscure institutions are left not updated, the whole project should not be called off. Even a concise database for the bigger institutions would be very helpful, along with any (albeit not completely accurate) smaller or more obscure institutions.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top