Dangerous animals: Chimpanzees

[JT]

Well I don't buy the sort of Utopian / hippy / "better angels of our nature" myth that has been popularized by many people who have never studied the bonobo in the wild and clearly have a new age / polyamory agenda / ideology.

Of course bonobos are not quite as violent as chimps but there are reports of infanticide, violence and pedophilia (something that the hippies seem to consistently overlook).

I agree with you there, I think while they do deserve more attention and more awareness from the general public, this hippie portrayal is not the way to go about it and I feel as though they have more to them than just “oh look they love peace and sex”

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

I agree with you there, I think while they do deserve more attention and more awareness from the general public, this hippie portrayal is not the way to go about it and I feel as though they have more to them than just “oh look they love peace and sex”

Totally agree!

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

Signage I think works to a point, as does clearing the pond of coins so as not to give people the idea. This is one of my favourite signs on the subject of not throwing (Wellington Zoo):

View attachment 477908

In this case, the greater danger is the chimps lobbing something back at the crowd. Gombe, one of the young males, was infamous for this prior to his export.

What did Gombe throw back ?

 

[Jambo]

Signage I think works to a point, as does clearing the pond of coins so as not to give people the idea. This is one of my favourite signs on the subject of not throwing (Wellington Zoo):

View attachment 477908

In this case, the greater danger is the chimps lobbing something back at the crowd. Gombe, one of the young males, was infamous for this prior to his export.

Chimps are famous for throwing their food or rocks at visitors. At the Taronga Zoo, chimps have frequently thrown rocks at their keepers and visitors, standing on the other side of the moat.

Elephants at Zoo Miami, also threw piles of sand at keepers as well.

 

[Batto]

What did Gombe throw back ?

Based on my experience with chimps so far, everything in reach - including self - produced biological waste material...

 

[Zoofan15]

What did Gombe throw back ?

Anything he could use as a projectile! There was an interview with a keeper where Gombe picked up a water bottle from the moat and the keeper thought he was gonna throw it (as he was I’m the habit of doing). On that occasion he used it as a tool to scoop up water.

While Gombe’s behaviour was typical of an adolescent male, he was having a difficult time in the troop due to the death of his mother when he was nine. When the zoo needed to export two males (to balance out the gender ratio), he and his father (the recently overthrown alpha male) were the obvious candidates. They now live at Monarto.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

Anything he could use as a projectile! There was an interview with a keeper where Gombe picked up a water bottle from the moat and the keeper thought he was gonna throw it (as he was I’m the habit of doing). On that occasion he used it as a tool to scoop up water.

While Gombe’s behaviour was typical of an adolescent male, he was having a difficult time in the troop due to the death of his mother when he was nine. When the zoo needed to export two males (to balance out the gender ratio), he and his father (the recently overthrown alpha male) were the obvious candidates. They now live at Monarto.

Interestingly he was also evidently named after Goodall's famous study site in Tanzania.

It is really interesting to learn that there were environmental / social causes and trauma for his aggressive behaviour, they are so uncannily humanlike.

 

[Zoofan15]

Interestingly he was also evidently named after Goodall's famous study site in Tanzania.

It is really interesting to learn that there were environmental / social causes and trauma for his aggressive behaviour, they are so uncannily humanlike.

I think every zoo has had a chimp named Gombe at some stage. Taronga Zoo also had one born five years previously in 1988. Similarly we’ve had multiple red pandas named Tashi; and at least two tigers named Berani (also a common tiger name globally).

The Wellington troop are indeed an interesting case. For many years, the alpha female was a hand raised female with no offspring. In every other case I’ve seen, those two factors would place her at the bottom of the hierarchy; but she had the most incredible tantrums if she didn’t get her way and even the alpha male would scramble out the way.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

I think every zoo has had a chimp named Gombe at some stage. Taronga Zoo also had one born five years previously in 1988. Similarly we’ve had multiple red pandas named Tashi; and at least two tigers named Berani (also a common tiger name globally).

The Wellington troop are indeed an interesting case. For many years, the alpha female was a hand raised female with no offspring. In every other case I’ve seen, those two factors would place her at the bottom of the hierarchy; but she had the most incredible tantrums if she didn’t get her way and even the alpha male would scramble out the way.

What is it about chimps that you personally find interesting / engaging ?

 

[Zoofan15]

What is it about chimps that you personally find interesting / engaging ?

Great question! I suppose the complexity of their interactions and their similarities with humans - so much politics. I also love seeing how traits are passed down through family lines - not just physical traits; but mothering skills etc.

Wellington Zoo has a female named Cara, who was born 1981 at Taronga Zoo. Cara wasn’t a careful mother, she lost two of her four offspring when they were a few months old due to her lack of maternal care. She would leave them laying on the floor and they unsurprisingly sustained injuries from the other chimps. I later learned that Cara’s own mother was described as ‘scatterbrained’ and lost one of her offspring under near identical circumstances.

Cara and her unnamed infant (that died from injuries caused by other chimps) in 2003. Photo credit to @Simon Hampel:

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

Great question! I suppose the complexity of their interactions and their similarities with humans - so much politics. I also love seeing how traits are passed down through family lines - not just physical traits; but mothering skills etc.

Wellington Zoo has a female named Cara, who was born 1981 at Taronga Zoo. Cara wasn’t a careful mother, she lost two of her four offspring when they were a few months old due to her lack of maternal care. She would leave them laying on the floor and they unsurprisingly sustained injuries from the other chimps. I later learned that Cara’s own mother was described as ‘scatterbrained’ and lost one of her offspring under near identical circumstances.

Cara and her unnamed infant (that died from injuries caused by other chimps) in 2003. Photo credit to @Simon Hampel:

View attachment 477995

I can definitely understand why people find them fascinating, as there is always that backdrop of machiavellian politics / intrigue in their social behaviour and its a bit like a simian Game of Thrones.

I mean there is to some extent with any animals that live within social groups but it is definitely more pronounced and...lively...with chimpanzees for want of a better word.

 

[Zoofan15]

I can definitely understand why people find them fascinating, as there is always that backdrop of machiavellian politics / intrigue in their social behaviour and its a bit like a simian Game of Thrones.

I mean there is to some extent with any animals that live within social groups but it is definitely more ...lively...with chimpanzees for want of a better word.

For sure. It’s fascinating how many different ways there are to males achieving alpha status - forming alliances, brute force and by default (being the only alpha male in the troop).

Those that seize power by brute force/aggression are tyrants and rarely last long without the support of the community. They often refuse to step aside and are subsequently killed by other males to effect a change in leadership.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

For sure. It’s fascinating how many different ways there are to males achieving alpha status - forming alliances, brute force and by default (being the only alpha male in the troop).

Those that seize power by brute force/aggression are tyrants and rarely last long without the support of the community. They often refuse to step aside and are subsequently killed by other males to effect a change in leadership.

It is fascinating I agree but also very disturbing to me personally to contemplate this aspect of chimp social behaviour.

I remember reading Goodall's "In the shadow of man" and "Through a window" many years ago, really interesting books.

Have to say though that with primates admittedly I'm just far more interested in the marmosets and tamarins.

 

[Zoofan15]

It is fascinating I agree but also very disturbing to me personally to contemplate this aspect of chimp social behaviour.

I remember reading Goodall's "In the shadow of man" and "Through a window" many years ago, really interesting books.

Have to say though that with primates admittedly I'm just far more interested in the marmosets and tamarins.

Chimpanzees certainly have a dark side. Through reading Jane Goodall’s research, you’ll be familiar with the prevalence of infanticide. You’d expect it from the naturally aggressive males; but anyone unfamiliar with chimps is amazed to learn that the newborn infants of low ranking females are at considerable risk of being killed by high ranking females, seeking to prevent challenges to their status.

There have been a few incidences within the Australasian region, though it’s not common thankfully and has usually involved a contributing factor e.g. a neglectful mother; or an antisocial (handraised) female.

 

[JT]

I think one of the driving factors of my interest in chimps is the variety in personalities and how they translate into social standings. Chimp society and politics is definitely interesting to watch unfold.

Unfortunately, in zoos I haven’t really seen much from chimps, when I have seen them they’ve mostly been lying around however I have heard them from the other side of the zoo on occasion. That being said, I did have a good interaction with William at twycross, however I believe he has a habit of interacting with the public and tends to sit and wait at the window for someone to come .

 

[Pertinax]

but she had the most incredible tantrums if she didn’t get her way and even the alpha male would scramble out the way.

In her excellent book My Friends the Apes, Belle Benchley, director of the San Diego Zoo in the 1930/40's era noted something similar in their Chimps, which at the time were simply a breeding pair with a couple of offspring. When the male displayed, the female would flee 'screaming in pretended terror' to the top of the cage and only return after he had subsided, and groom him submissively.. But if she had a tantrum on the other hand, her behaviour was apt to 'drive him into real seclusion'...

 

[Zoofan15]

In her excellent book My Friends the Apes, Belle Benchley, director of the San Diego Zoo in the 1930/40's era noted something similar in their Chimps, which were simply a breeding pair with a couple of offspring. When the male displayed, the female would flee 'screaming in pretended terror' to the top of the cage and only return after he had subsided, and groom him submissively.. But if she had a tantrum on the other hand, her behaviour was apt to 'drive him into real seclusion'...

I think the issue with a lot of zoos of this era was that they were taking chimps from the wild that were so young, they were effectively handraised - and therefore didn’t have the chance to observe the hierarchy of males being dominant over females. The assumption that chimps lived in monogamous pairs (the same with gorillas and orangutans) also seemed common in the early to mid 20th century.

Auckland Zoo wrote when their first four tea party chimps arrived in 1956 that as the eldest, Janie was in charge; but that the natural hierarchy of the chimpanzees would assert itself as Bobby, the only male in the quartet and the youngest, matured. It didn’t. Janie remained the highest ranking for their entire lives and subsequently never allowed Bobby to mate with her.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

Chimpanzees certainly have a dark side. Through reading Jane Goodall’s research, you’ll be familiar with the prevalence of infanticide. You’d expect it from the naturally aggressive males; but anyone unfamiliar with chimps is amazed to learn that the newborn infants of low ranking females are at considerable risk of being killed by high ranking females, seeking to prevent challenges to their status.

There have been a few incidences within the Australasian region, though it’s not common thankfully and has usually involved a contributing factor e.g. a neglectful mother; or an antisocial (handraised) female.

Again it is disturbingly close to human behaviour.

You can see the same kind of patterns of infanticide by high ranking women occurring throughout human history in the civilizations of Ancient Egypt, Persia, Rome, China , Medieval Europe and the Middle East.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

I think the issue with a lot of zoos of this era was that they were taking chimps from the wild that were so young, they were effectively handraised - and therefore didn’t have the chance to observe the hierarchy of males being dominant over females. The assumption that chimps lived in monogamous pairs (the same with gorillas and orangutans) also seemed common in the early to mid 20th century.

Auckland Zoo wrote when their first four tea party chimps arrived in 1956 that as the eldest, Janie was in charge; but that the natural hierarchy of the chimpanzees would assert itself as Bobby, the only male in the quartet and the youngest, matured. It didn’t. Janie remained the highest ranking for their entire lives and subsequently never allowed Bobby to mate with her.

Chimps living in monogamous pairs , lol

I wonder if this had more to do with their Edwardian social mores and bias rather than them actually genuinely believing that nonsense.

Perhaps they just saw what they wanted to but I can't imagine them being able to ignore the very obvious chimp gang bangs that occur when females come into season.

Gibbons, lion tamarins and owl monkeys definitely are monogamous and it is strikingly obvious... but chimps....LOL.

 

[Pertinax]

I think the issue with a lot of zoos of this era was that they were taking chimps from the wild that were so young, they were effectively handraised - and therefore didn’t have the chance to observe the hierarchy of males being dominant over females. The assumption that chimps lived in monogamous pairs (the same with gorillas and orangutans) also seemed common in the early to mid 20th century.

Auckland Zoo wrote when their first four tea party chimps arrived in 1956 that as the eldest, Janie was in charge; but that the natural hierarchy of the chimpanzees would assert itself as Bobby, the only male in the quartet and the youngest, matured. It didn’t. Janie remained the highest ranking for their entire lives and subsequently never allowed Bobby to mate with her.

Interesting link in that those original chimps at Auckland came from London Zoo. Much more recently London sent a larger group of females to Dudley Zoo to join a single male who had lived there all his life, previously with 3 females with whom he had bred. Although fully mature and previously dominant, he couldn't dominate the several new females which were a united group against him. In fact I think they killed him. Franz de Waal's Chimpanzee Politics has some interesting stories about the balance of power in the large Arnhem group in Holland.