"There is no conservation value in keeping exotics in Australian zoos" - prove me wrong.

  • Thread starter Thread starter MRJ
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Kifaru Bwana said:
I have to contest the statements in your first paragraph as either a misinterpretation or factual error:
World captive population: 31/12/2012: 339 (139.206.4) living pygmy hippo / status 31.12.2012.
Source: ISB 2012.
Global wild population:
CURRENT POPULATION TREND: Decreasing
NUMBER OF MATURE INDIVIDUALS: 2,000-2,499 (estimate / guesstimate).
Source: IUCN Red List 2015 (Assessed 23/2/2015)
IUCN Red List of Threatened Species

I think, working with pygmy hippo in Australian zoos can have a benefit for the global population if the population is managed robustly. At the moment, it is a haphazard affair, for which some Australian ZC forumsters feel the local ZAA is not doing enough and has been neglecting this for years. It cannot be too hard to acquire 4-6 pygmy hippo from Asian region (regional population: 50.63 (113) - 31/12/2012) and participate in the SEAZA or in regional alignment with them.

Currently, also the common hippo in Australian zoos is not the largest population and has been pretty much stagnant for a decade. It is somewhat curious that these cannot be sourced from the very same region, where there is a good supply of common hippo that would enable better population management in ZAA region.

If for any informed reasons, the ZAA would decide against either ... than it would be fair to export all (and not phase out over the next few decades). However, this is a road I think the association should not take.

I am perfectly happy with Australian zoos working with Australian faunas per se, but only on the premise it does make a meaningful contribution to global conservation efforts and maintains a representative portion of exotic wildlife from Africa and Asia. Given the island archipelago of Australasia, it would seem fair for its proximity to Australia to fix that on Indo-Pacific. After all, Australia is not separate from the rest of the global family?!!!!!

My wider thoughts on the concerns over local native fauna and flora management and ex situ conservation, I will discuss in more details later. At this point, looking at the numbers Australia would require a few more zoos to really make a meaningful impact on in situ and ex situ conservation of local fauna and flora. TBH: I can cite several examples were a lot more needs fixing.

TO BE CONTINUED.
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Regarding pygmy hippos I took the figure Wikipedia. Regardless, for one who deals with species where numbers are often in the 10's or low 100's that sounds like paradise. The issue here sounds more like a management issue than anything else.

I'm not sure what your definition of proximity is but the air distance between Melbourne and Singapore is 6,000km. By comparison the air distance between London and Moscow is 2,500km. Singapore might pay for the air transport of a hippo from Australia as part of a managed program but I can't imagine many Indonesian or Thai zoos willing to do so. The costs would be enormous, and honestly the money much better spent elsewhere.
 
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Dassie rat said:
I have been to various zoos and seen animals I had never seen or heard of before and species I never expected to see. Surely seeing something for the first time and learning interesting information about it would interest many visitors more than seeing a species they have seen many times before. How many visitors do you think are excited by seeing the 6th enclosure of a species they have already seen that day?
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I have seen research that indicates that while most people come to a zoo expecting mega-fauna, it is often less significant animals that make their day. In fact way back when I saw research that the old London Zoo insect house was the most cost effective exhibit in terms of visitor time spent per dollar (or pound) of running cost.
 
Onychorhynchus coronatus said:
Thats interesting, somehow I expected it to be far more species.

Even with the inherent challenges I do think that Australian zoos should when and where necessary play a role in building ex-situ insurance populations of vulnerable / threatened species from the region and I think there are bound to be many of these in the near future with climate change on the horizon.

Nevertheless I also agree with you that in-situ work should always be the priority and that Australian zoos can play a key supporting role in this.
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You have to remember that while islands often have a high rate of endemics they usually have a limited total number of species. When talking about Pacific islands there are no native mammals and birds are of course prohibited imports to Australia.
 
MRJ said:
You have to remember that while islands often have a high rate of endemics they usually have a limited total number of species. When talking about Pacific islands there are no native mammals and birds are of course prohibited imports to Australia.
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Yes, I agree with regards to lower rates of biodiversity but in terms of native mammalian fauna what about some of the megabat species that occur on Pacific islands?

Some of these are both endemic and threatened by anthropogenic stressors.
 
Onychorhynchus coronatus said:
Yes, I agree with regards to lower rates of biodiversity but in terms of native mammalian fauna what about some of the megabat species that occur on Pacific islands?

Some of these are both endemic and threatened by anthropogenic stressors.
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Yes you got me there.

Australian mainstream zoos seem to be somewhat bat adverse these days. Once again import restrictions would be problematic.
 
MRJ said:
Regarding pygmy hippos I took the figure Wikipedia. Regardless, for one who deals with species where numbers are often in the 10's or low 100's that sounds like paradise. The issue here sounds more like a management issue than anything else.

I'm not sure what your definition of proximity is but the air distance between Melbourne and Singapore is 6,000km. By comparison the air distance between London and Moscow is 2,500km. Singapore might pay for the air transport of a hippo from Australia as part of a managed program but I can't imagine many Indonesian or Thai zoos willing to do so. The costs would be enormous, and honestly the money much better spent elsewhere.
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My reply was specifically for import of hippo and pymgy hippo into Australia and in my view transport is then an issue for addressee / importer.
 
Kifaru Bwana said:
My reply was specifically for import of hippo and pymgy hippo into Australia and in my view transport is then an issue for addressee / importer.
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You did mention Australia participating in a SEAZA program. Participation implies both sending and receiving..
 
Dassie rat said:
How many visitors do you think are excited by seeing the 6th enclosure of a species they have already seen that day?
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The only time I’ve seen this done well is the Perth Zoo Sumatran orangutan colony, which are housed in at about five or six interconnected exhibits. The exhibits are dated and due for an overhaul (which they will soon get); but their arrangement doesn’t make you feel as if it’s taking up the space something else could occupy.

The facilities they have allow them to manage a colony and breed more regularly than the others zoos (which is more interesting from a visitor perspective). They’re also the only zoo to release captive bred orangutans back into the wild. I’m aware there’s controversy around this (people have said they merely take the place of more ‘needy’ orphaned orangutans at rehabilitation centres); but you can’t deny it engages the public, who see an example of a direct conservation initiative.
 
Zoofan15 said:
The only time I’ve seen this done well is the Perth Zoo Sumatran orangutan colony, which are housed in at about five or six interconnected exhibits. The exhibits are dated and due for an overhaul (which they will soon get); but their arrangement doesn’t make you feel as if it’s taking up the space something else could occupy.

The facilities they have allow them to manage a colony and breed more regularly than the others zoos (which is more interesting from a visitor perspective). They’re also the only zoo to release captive bred orangutans back into the wild. I’m aware there’s controversy around this (people have said they merely take the place of more ‘needy’ orphaned orangutans at rehabilitation centres); but you can’t deny it engages the public, who see an example of a direct conservation initiative.
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Releasing captive-bred animals back into the wild is an example of direct conservation. It can also be used to justify breeding more animals in zoos. This is an example of the conservation value in keeping an exotic in Australian zoos.
 
MRJ said:
Yes you got me there.

Australian mainstream zoos seem to be somewhat bat adverse these days. Once again import restrictions would be problematic.
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I can understand why given biosecurity concerns and risk of zoonosis.

But I think that it would be possible if (required / necessary) to set up captive breeding facilities for ex-situ in the range country for a number of these endangered megabat species.

Jersey zoo and Carl Jones did this very successfully with the Rodrigues fruit bat in Mauritius in the 1970's.
 
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Dassie rat said:
Releasing captive-bred animals back into the wild is an example of direct conservation. It can also be used to justify breeding more animals in zoos. This is an example of the conservation value in keeping an exotic in Australian zoos.
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No cigar. Releasing one animal is an experiment not a conservation program.

In any case the problem for orangutans is declining habitat and as has been pointed out there are plenty of orphan and former pet orangutans available for release if needed.

Interestingly one of the main people involved with this release, Lief Cocks, was a orangutan keeper at Perth Zoo who went on to found the Orangutan Project. All their work is in orangutan habitat not zoos.

However Perth Zoo does have the type of facilities that would be needed if a breeding program was instituted, ie multiple enclosures. Something not duplicated in other Australian zoos.
 
Onychorhynchus coronatus said:
I can understand why given biosecurity concerns and risk of zoonosis.

But I think that it would be possible if (required / necessary) to set up captive breeding facilities for ex-situ in the range country for a number of these endangered megabat species.

Jersey zoo and Carl Jones did this very successfully with the Rodrigues fruit bat in Mauritius in the 1970's.
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Exactly my point, breeding programs conducted in range countries not in Australian zoos.
 
MRJ said:
Exactly my point, breeding programs conducted in range countries not in Australian zoos.
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I definitely think it would be preferable to do this ex-situ within the range country but then again it has its downsides too, namely having all of your eggs in one basket.

Afterall if we take the example of the Rodrigues fruitbat it was both captive bred in Mauritius and also breeding colonies established at the Jersey zoo and eventually others in UK / Europe and North America.

*The opposite happened with the Livingstone's fruitbat with it first being established at Jersey and a few other UK zoos and now there seems to be a move towards establishing captive breeding facilities for ex-situ in the range country / the Comorros.
 
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I agree that Carl Jones has saved several Mauritian species, but several zoos have been involved in releasing orang-utans into the wild, although the success rate has varied.
 
Dassie rat said:
The Arabian oryx breeding programme was done at Phoenix Zoo in Arizona.
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We are talking about Australian zoos. The US situation is very different.
 
I know, MRJ

I was giving an example of an ex situ breeding programme that saved a species from extinction and allowed some captives to be sent to their original home.

Apart from the orang-utans, are there any other examples of exotic species that have been bred in Australian zoos as part of a reintroduction programme?
 
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