Asian Elephants in Europe 2021

Hi

I am curious, why "very good" about Washington D.C.? Spike could also mate with Maharani, they had three calves, none living. I guess I am not a big fan of that zoo after Toni.

But, yes, USA needs fresh genetics. For some reason the Ringling cows at the Columbus Zoo are not pregnant as of yet. And we dont know whose semen Phoebe was inseminated with. I heard Hank is sterile.

Does anybody in USA know who is the father of Winnie yet? The only breeding male at Houston Zoo is Tupelo's father.

I also would love to know who is the new bull that Dublin is planning to bring since Upali left?

Thanks.
 
ZCChip said:
Hi

I am curious, why "very good" about Washington D.C.? Spike could also mate with Maharani, they had three calves, none living. I guess I am not a big fan of that zoo after Toni.

But, yes, USA needs fresh genetics. For some reason the Ringling cows at the Columbus Zoo are not pregnant as of yet. And we dont know whose semen Phoebe was inseminated with. I heard Hank is sterile.

Does anybody in USA know who is the father of Winnie yet? The only breeding male at Houston Zoo is Tupelo's father.

I also would love to know who is the new bull that Dublin is planning to bring since Upali left?

Thanks.
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Spike and Maharani have been breeding regularly since as early as mid to late 2018 but so far no calf or pregnancy and it's been several years since Maharani had her last calf. Also, even if Maharani surprises us with a calf sometime soon, Spike is very genetically valuable through both his parents and it would be nice for him to have a couple more cows to breed with.

The father of Phoebe's calf (which is due this month! :D) is indeed Hank, he is not sterile, he is just a behavioral non-breeder and I believe it has something to do with his weight. And it is very frustrating that Rudy and Sunny have yet to have a calf, especially Rudy (she is already 19!) I do believe Beco has been attempting to breed the girls but I'm not sure on how sucessful he has been with that. If that doesn't work, they may also try to inseminate them with Hank's semen like they did with Phoebe.

Houston has still not annouced who the father of Winnie is but the calf was born via artifical insemination so she is not an inbred calf.

I'm not sure on this one, but I don't think Dublin will be recieving a new breeding bull anytime soon. Firstly, many zoos in Europe have been restricted from breeding their elephants due to overpopulation in Europe, and Dublin's elephants do come from a well-represented line so there isn't exactly a need to breed from them. Also, I read somewhere that Dublin won't be getting a new bull till they send all their young bulls away to bachelor herds. Kavi and Ashoka have already moved to Sydney since then, but Kabir and Sanjay are still a bit too young to be moved. So I'm guessing that once they are sent away, Dublin will start thinking about bring a new bull in. I also think with so many cows (I believe they have 7 currently), at least a couple will be sent to a different zoo when the younger ones start hitting breeding age.
 
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I agree it is highly unlikely that any of the current NZP cow herd will ever calve. I am afraid the breeding of Spike with Maharani is now a dead in the water affair.

Could they not put bull Hank on a slimming diet course? What weight is he at anyways?
(This phenomenon of being overweight is a recurrent theme for some elephants both M/F in captivity and probably factors in as a big preclusion to successful breeding and birthing).

On European EEP/EAZA Asiatic elephant breeding program: How did it ever come to this ... (I ask you a bit tongue in the cheek), the program has seemingly become too successful for its own good??? It would be nice if out of this predicament a close cooperation can be fostered across the zoogeographical regions and that EAZA and AZA managers combine their capacities in curating their respective programs and building cross Atlantic animal transfer deals (when it seems we have overrepresented lineages in European zoos that would be a great addition to US/North American elephant stock).
 
Animals R AMAZING! said:
The father of Phoebe's calf (which is due this month! :D) is indeed Hank, he is not sterile, he is just a behavioral non-breeder and I believe it has something to do with his weight. And it is very frustrating that Rudy and Sunny have yet to have a calf, especially Rudy (she is already 19!) I do believe Beco has been attempting to breed the girls but I'm not sure on how sucessful he has been with that. If that doesn't work, they may also try to inseminate them with Hank's semen like they did with Phoebe.

Houston has still not annouced who the father of Winnie is but the calf was born via artifical insemination so she is not an inbred calf.

I'm not sure on this one, but I don't think Dublin will be recieving a new breeding bull anytime soon. Firstly, many zoos in Europe have been restricted from breeding their elephants due to overpopulation in Europe, and Dublin's elephants do come from a well-represented line so there isn't exactly a need to breed from them. Also, I read somewhere that Dublin won't be getting a new bull till they send all their young bulls away to bachelor herds. Kavi and Ashoka have already moved to Sydney since then, but Kabir and Sanjay are still a bit too young to be moved. So I'm guessing that once they are sent away, Dublin will start thinking about bring a new bull in. I also think with so many cows (I believe they have 7 currently), at least a couple will be sent to a different zoo when the younger ones start hitting breeding age.
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Thank you. I am glad to hear that Hank is not sterile. Yes, he is a big bull. Someone who visited his previous home in Arkansas said he was big and kept by himself, they could not manage him in free contact like they could with the African bulls (per her). He did have one calf there, but was still born and the mother died as well. (I forgot who the mother was). I believe in order to conceive Phoebe's last calf they used his semen and another bull? This is why I asked.

Beco is 12 so he should be sexually mature by now as captive elephants mature quicker than the wild born ones.

Yes, Dublin has been successful and related to many elephants in the UK.

Thanks again.
 
Kifaru Bwana said:
I agree it is highly unlikely that any of the current NZP cow herd will ever calve. I am afraid the breeding of Spike with Maharani is now a dead in the water affair.

Could they not put bull Hank on a slimming diet course? What weight is he at anyways?
(This phenomenon of being overweight is a recurrent theme for some elephants both M/F in captivity and probably factors in as a big preclusion to successful breeding and birthing).

On European EEP/EAZA Asiatic elephant breeding program: How did it ever come to this ... (I ask you a bit tongue in the cheek), the program has seemingly become too successful for its own good??? It would be nice if out of this predicament a close cooperation can be fostered across the zoogeographical regions and that EAZA and AZA managers combine their capacities in curating their respective programs and building cross Atlantic animal transfer deals (when it seems we have overrepresented lineages in European zoos that would be a great addition to US/North American elephant stock).
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That reminds me: Spike's father, Dahlip, is still living at Miami Zoo but resides with an old female. He is genetically valuable as well.

Overweight because they are well fed and they are limited on how they can exercise.

I think egos are involved. EAZA has shifted away from free contact programs and AZA is in the process (even though some zoos in USA are resisting this). Many zoos in USA are not focused on multi-generational programs as EAZA are. Plus more AZA zoos are focused on Africans while most of the Asian population is aging. But I agree, cooperation is needed with AZA, EAZA and Australian Zoos.
 
ZCChip said:
That reminds me: Spike's father, Dahlip, is still living at Miami Zoo but resides with an old female. He is genetically valuable as well.

Overweight because they are well fed and they are limited on how they can exercise.

I think egos are involved. EAZA has shifted away from free contact programs and AZA is in the process (even though some zoos in USA are resisting this). Many zoos in USA are not focused on multi-generational programs as EAZA are. Plus more AZA zoos are focused on Africans while most of the Asian population is aging. But I agree, cooperation is needed with AZA, EAZA and Australian Zoos.
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While I agree with most of this, I do believe most if not all AZA zoos have switched to protected contact by now. And for the record, Asians are doing much better in terms of breeding than Africans in the US. However, both the African and Asian breeding programs are far superior in Europe compared to the US.
 
Animals R AMAZING! said:
While I agree with most of this, I do believe most if not all AZA zoos have switched to protected contact by now. And for the record, Asians are doing much better in terms of breeding than Africans in the US. However, both the African and Asian breeding programs are far superior in Europe compared to the US.
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AZA has mandated that all accredited zoos must go PC within the next few years. I do know a zoo In Pennsylvania has resisted this and lost accreditation. Houston, Portland, Washington D.C., Fort Worth and Columbus are still free contact at least with the cows but that information is dated by a few years. You can see this about Columbus when they were all over Phoebe when they were ultra-sounding her before her last calf in the zoo program on TV. They have become really careful showing this because of the animal right groups.

I wish AZA would mandate all breeding zoos must keep multi-generational herds like EAZA does. And yes EAZA is doing a much better job than USA and Canada. This is why I follow EAZA elephant programs closely.
 
ZCChip said:
AZA has mandated that all accredited zoos must go PC within the next few years. I do know a zoo In Pennsylvania has resisted this and lost accreditation. Houston, Portland, Washington D.C., Fort Worth and Columbus are still free contact at least with the cows but that information is dated by a few years. You can see this about Columbus when they were all over Phoebe when they were ultra-sounding her before her last calf in the zoo program on TV. They have become really careful showing this because of the animal right groups.

I wish AZA would mandate all breeding zoos must keep multi-generational herds like EAZA does. And yes EAZA is doing a much better job than USA and Canada. This is why I follow EAZA elephant programs closely.
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Hey don't sell Canada short! The only facility breeding Asian elephants in Canada is doing just as well as the best EAZA zoo, and far better than any facility in the states.
 
Hyak_II said:
Hey don't sell Canada short! The only facility breeding Asian elephants in Canada is doing just as well as the best EAZA zoo, and far better than any facility in the states.
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Yes, I agree!! African Lion Safari has done an amazing job breeding their elephants and they have had so many female calves born in the last couple years! :D
 
Hyak_II said:
Hey don't sell Canada short! The only facility breeding Asian elephants in Canada is doing just as well as the best EAZA zoo, and far better than any facility in the states.
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African Lion Safari :) And yes they are breeding elephants successfully. Plenty of bulls from their program in the North America, including Rex who was their main breeding bull.

It is odd to me though. We have two elephant sanctuaries here in USA, they could take the older cows in enabling zoos to take the old cows there for "retirement", and take in bulls and the larger zoos can manage multi-generational herds. Europe does not have sanctuaries and having a hard time finding homes for the surplus bulls but hanging on to their older cows regardless. Both countries have pretty similar problems.
 
ZCChip said:
African Lion Safari :) And yes they are breeding elephants successfully. Plenty of bulls from their program in the North America, including Rex who was their main breeding bull.

It is odd to me though. We have two elephant sanctuaries here in USA, they could take the older cows in enabling zoos to take the old cows there for "retirement", and take in bulls and the larger zoos can manage multi-generational herds. Europe does not have sanctuaries and having a hard time finding homes for the surplus bulls but hanging on to their older cows regardless. Both countries have pretty similar problems.
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I think there are as yet slightly different approaches in European versus US\North American zoos in that the species coordinator specifically has guidelines on elephant breeding program where zoos with no access to a bull separation facility will not be deemed a breeding herd location.

This effectively means an enabling mechanism for zoos to deal with the issues of elderly and non-reproductive cows in female only groups (note also the attempts at not keeping singletons ... preferably) and bachelor bull herds - which are both essential for the entire program -. Nevertheless, there is no denying that space issues now exist (also due to increased minimum requirements for outlay of elephant exhibits) and for some over-represented lineages breeding is being curtailed or even individuals are being exported.


I would sincerely hope that North American AZA/SSP management will take the road above too and long term attempt to site the non-breeding individuals and bachelor bulls in herds of their own in specifically designated zoos (some already exist, but it could be more ... to have these concentrated in some facilities only) and enabling more zoos to invest in breeding facilities and setting up breeding herds. I would applaud if cooperation across the Atlantic and beyond may increase and that imports / exports of live elephants would become a more regular occurrence and providing much needed new bloodlines and esp. cow elephants in the reproductive age classes for AZA/SSP zoos.
 
ZCChip said:
Houston, Portland, Washington D.C., Fort Worth and Columbus are still free contact at least with the cows but that information is dated by a few years. You can see this about Columbus when they were all over Phoebe when they were ultra-sounding her before her last calf in the zoo program on TV.
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This may be dated by more than a few years, Washington has been protected contact since right before Bozie arrived and she arrived in 2013. Columbus practice protected as well. What you see on the tv show is then going in when Phoebe is on restraints meaning it’s “safe” which is protected contact. It goes the same with Houston.
 
Does anyone know if the Rostov Zoo in Russia is EAZA accredited? It is bizarre about Ekol being separated from her mother at three years of age to a circus like sitting, alone. And now Yoma is reportedly back in with Ekol's mother who is his half sister as well Sitara Dona who is his half sister/aunt as well?
 
ZCChip said:
Does anyone know if the Rostov Zoo in Russia is EAZA accredited? It is bizarre about Ekol being separated from her mother at three years of age to a circus like sitting, alone. And now Yoma is reportedly back in with Ekol's mother who is his half sister as well Sitara Dona who is his half sister/aunt as well?
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No, EAZA has terminated the zoos membership after they send their elephant to that circus.
 
Yet more transfers are on the horizon!

Alexander, Fahim, and Tom (from Munster, Rotterdam, and Le Pal) are all scheduled to arrive in Lodz within the next month or so.

Additionally, it would seem Nikolai is now scheduled to move from Artis to Munster, as well! Personally, this is a move I'm very excited about. Ratna and Corny desperately need to breed (it might be a bit late for Ratna, but you never know), and very personally, I think Nikolai would produce stunning calves with both girls. Both Nikolai and the girls sire, Hussein, are/were very large, well built, physically impressive bulls. Never hurts to have more animals like that kicking around in the population in my mind!
 
Hyak_II said:
Yet more transfers are on the horizon!

Alexander, Fahim, and Tom (from Munster, Rotterdam, and Le Pal) are all scheduled to arrive in Lodz within the next month or so.

Additionally, it would seem Nikolai is now scheduled to move from Artis to Munster, as well! Personally, this is a move I'm very excited about. Ratna and Corny desperately need to breed (it might be a bit late for Ratna, but you never know), and very personally, I think Nikolai would produce stunning calves with both girls. Both Nikolai and the girls sire, Hussein, are/were very large, well built, physically impressive bulls. Never hurts to have more animals like that kicking around in the population in my mind!
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Hopefully this would mean Thong Tai and Yindee are pregnant. Sanuk might be a wee bit young.

Both Ratna and Corny had stillbirths so maybe they are still viable. But I always was told that Alexander was a persistent breeder? Hopefully with Nikolai the zoo will see positive results.
 
ZCChip said:
Hopefully this would mean Thong Tai and Yindee are pregnant. Sanuk might be a wee bit young.

Both Ratna and Corny had stillbirths so maybe they are still viable. But I always was told that Alexander was a persistent breeder? Hopefully with Nikolai the zoo will see positive results.
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I really hope Yindee is pregnant, since she is almost 16 and has not had a calf yet! While Sanuk is quite young, there is a possibility that she may have concieved since a couple cows have bred at Sanuk's age (i.e. Sithami, Omysha, Saphira) and most of them gave birth to healthy calves.
 
Animals R AMAZING! said:
I really hope Yindee is pregnant, since she is almost 16 and has not had a calf yet! While Sanuk is quite young, there is a possibility that she may have concieved since a couple cows have bred at Sanuk's age (i.e. Sithami, Omysha, Saphira) and most of them gave birth to healthy calves.
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Yes especially for Yindee, I heard she was intimidated by the last bull (second hand information so it can be wrong) so maybe she was better with Nikolai.

Yes it is possible for Sanuk.
 
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