Proposed captive elephant reform (?)

[KevinB]

The way I read this, nothing has been decided yet. Apparently an ‚insider‘ has leaked what he believes is going to Happen in a couple of months.

I doubt that very much.

I would hope that it is solely the beginning of the end for elephants in UK zoos and that it will not impact other species held.

I am worried that this would well turn out to become a legislative "slippery slope" towards more and more animal species and groups getting banned. And if the anti-zoo crowd gets to celebrate their victory on elephants, they will almost certainly be emboldened to push more and harder for anti-zoo policies.

The current UK government has already shown how much it cares about the future of zoos with the whole relief fund debacle (i.e. not much at all).

And if the political will is found for an elephant ban, who says it couldn't happen for great apes, large cats or any other animal group? Who says the politicians won't be swayed for for more bans? Appeasing the animal rights crowd once will not make them give up, it will only make them worse. British politicians better head the warning that "An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile—hoping it will eat him last".

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

I am worried that this would well turn out to become a legislative "slippery slope" towards more and more animal species and groups getting banned. And if the anti-zoo crowd gets to celebrate their victory on elephants, they will almost certainly be emboldened to push more and harder for anti-zoo policies.

The current UK government has already shown how much it cares about the future of zoos with the whole relief fund debacle (i.e. not much at all).

And if the political will is found for an elephant ban, who says it couldn't happen for great apes, large cats or any other animal group? Appeasing the animal rights crowd once will not make them give up, it will only make them worse. British politicians better head the warning that "“An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile—hoping it will eat him last".

If the current UK government has already shown how much it cares about the population of the country (which apparently isn't very much at all) then realistically speaking how much can they be expected to care about the future of zoos ?

I think it would be an enormous shame if it is to be a slippery slope as there are world class zoos in the UK that make outstanding contributions to conservation around the world.

Lets hope it doesn't go that way.

 

[Chlidonias]

The way I read this, nothing has been decided yet. Apparently an ‚insider‘ has leaked what he believes is going to Happen in a couple of months.

Yes, exactly, the articles say nothing of actual substance. Despite the strong "is now banned" language, buried in the story are parcels of truth such as the line "The Government is due to receive the results of a report on the welfare of elephants in captivity soon. It is understood that it argues against keeping them in zoos."

In other words, there is a report made by one of the anti groups which will say the same stuff they always trot out, and despite the journalist not knowing what is actually in the report or what the outcome will be (because the report hasn't even been presented yet!) they are making up an "elephants are now banned" story.

 

[Pertinax]

As the tile of this thread says the Banning of Importation of elephants is the topic. The ban is not just on wild elephants but on elephants from other zoos not in the UK.

The title of the thread just says broadly 'Proposed captive elephant reform'. The headline of the Daily Mail article that started the discussion says' Keeping of Elephants in Zoos and Safari parks will be banned'. So I am still confused rather as to whether it is about importation, or keeping them at all.

 

[littleRedPanda]

The title of the thread just says broadly 'Proposed captive elephant reform'. The headline of the Daily Mail article that started the discussion says' Keeping of Elephants in Zoos and Safari parks will be banned'. So I am still confused rather as to whether it is about importation, or keeping them at all.

Hasn't this been combined with another thread about the same topic? I'm not interested in either mail or sun link, so haven't read the thread.

 

[Chlidonias]

The title of the thread just says broadly 'Proposed captive elephant reform'.

There were two threads which I merged as they were about the same articles (hence the post you quoted, and the linking to the same article several times within the now-single thread).

 

[KevinB]

The title of the thread just says broadly 'Proposed captive elephant reform'. The headline of the Daily Mail article that started the discussion says' Keeping of Elephants in Zoos and Safari parks will be banned'. So I am still confused rather as to whether it is about importation, or keeping them at all.

From what I understood all imports would be banned, and all breeding would also be banned uner the proposed rules, to phase out elephants in UK zoos.

If UK zoos were no longer permitted to breed elephants I assume valuable breeding animals would likely be transferred to other zoos by the studbook keepers, if space is available...

 

[littleRedPanda]

@KevinB It's not worth worrying about as it's only the sun and mail rags. Let the thread drift down the pages until something solid is reported.

 

[KevinB]

I know these papers are gutter rags, but presumably even they wouldn't be publishing this if it was baseless fake news, right? They seem to have some sources, and between all the sensationalist nonsense in the articles there's still plenty of reason for great concern. It seems quite clear zoo reforms will be happening that will have a major negative impact.

 

[Fallax]

but presumably even they wouldn't be publishing this if it was baseless fake news, right?

You give them too much credit

 

[Nathano]

Just unfortunately the next step after banning keeping of primates in private hands, there is very strong anti-zoo lobby close to the current buffoon in no. 10.

Given an Aspinall Foundation zoo (the charity that Mrs Johnson works for) has the largest breeding herd of elephants in the UK, I somehow doubt this is her.

What seems to have happened here is that somebody heard about the Elephant Welfare Group sending its 10-year-report to the government (which is happening in the coming months) and jumped to a conclusion.

 

[KevinB]

Given an Aspinall Foundation zoo (the charity that Mrs Johnson works for) has the largest breeding herd of elephants in the UK, I somehow doubt this is her.

Please remember that Damian Aspinall actively called for the end of zoos...

 

[Nathano]

Please remember that Damian Aspinall actively called for the end of zoos...

Aspinall has talked about elephant releases in the past, I should point out.

The only elephant report I am aware of that is currently being submitted to the government is the Elephant Welfare Group's 10-year report - which details changes and advances in care, and highlights areas where any improvement is required.

This person obviously heard of the report and, despite not knowing what was actually in the report or what the outcome will be (because the report hasn't even been presented), decided to make up an "elephants are banned" story just to be salacious.

Certainly, it hasn't been mentioned in any previous mentions of the Kept Animals Bill, when you'd imagine it'd be a pretty big issue.

 

[taun]

Given an Aspinall Foundation zoo (the charity that Mrs Johnson works for) has the largest breeding herd of elephants in the UK, I somehow doubt this is her.

What seems to have happened here is that somebody heard about the Elephant Welfare Group sending its 10-year-report to the government (which is happening in the coming months) and jumped to a conclusion.

And has some of the worse indoor keeping of Elephants in the UK.

A zoo that wants all zoos to be closed but continues to breed animals.

A zoo that is run by a man who has ties with the environment minister.

A zoo that has also employed the wife of current prime minister.

But yes none of that has anything to do with it.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

And has some of the worse indoor keeping of Elephants in the UK.

A zoo that wants all zoos to be closed but continues to breed animals.

A zoo that is run by a man who has ties with the environment minister.

A zoo that has also employed the wife of current prime minister.

But yes none of that has anything to do with it.

I think its safe to say Aspinall (given his connections and outspoken stance) has played at least some role in this.

I just hope if it is indeed to come into effect then it remains limited to elephants and is not a slippery slope, I'll be very disappointed if it does go that way.

 

[Nathano]

I just hope if it is indeed to come into effect then it remains limited to elephants and is not a slippery slope, I'll be very disappointed if it does go that way.

I wouldn't worry, however - apparently, today, the minister in question (Zach Goldsmith) has allegedly (statement on Chester Zoo website) denied the reports and has stated that the Government do not intend to ban elephants in UK zoos.

What I think has happened is that somebody heard about the Elephant Welfare Group's 10-year report that is being sent to the government for review, which details changes and advances in care, and highlights areas where any improvement is required, and wrote the article not knowing what it was.

The Sun article even has this quote from Goldsmith, supporting the theory that the report referred to is the EWG's 10-year-report.

“Elephants are iconic, thoughtful and highly intelligent animals, and deserve to be looked after in environments that reflect that.

“We have been clear that all zoo elephants must enjoy the highest possible welfare standards, and that is why we commissioned a robust 10-year-long report from the UK Elephant Welfare Group to suggest and make improvements in the way elephants are kept in UK zoos, and monitor progress.

“They have been given free rein to explore the issue and deliver whatever final recommendations they see fit, and their report will be completed this year and then considered by the UK’s Zoos Expert Committee. Government will respond early next year.”

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

I wouldn't worry, however - apparently, today, the minister in question (Zach Goldsmith) has allegedly (statement on Chester Zoo website) denied the reports and has stated that the Government do not intend to ban elephants in UK zoos.

What I think has happened is that somebody heard about the Elephant Welfare Group's 10-year report that is being sent to the government for review, which details changes and advances in care, and highlights areas where any improvement is required, and wrote the article not knowing what it was.

The Sun article even has this quote from Goldsmith, supporting the theory that the report referred to is the EWG's 10-year-report.

Hmmmm thats an interesting development, thanks for sharing, I hope your right about that.

Incidentally I know that Zac Goldsmith just as Johnson's father and wife all consider themselves to be avid conservationists ( I personally don't consider them as such ).

 

[Nathano]

Hmmmm thats an interesting development, thanks for sharing, I hope your right about that.

Here's the URL (they wrote a statement on it today): Elephants in UK zoos – Chester Zoo response | Chester Zoo

Here's the relevant statement bolded:

“However, we understand that the Minister has strongly denied the reports and has now provided reassurance to the conservation community that the Government has no intention to ban the keeping of elephants in the UK – which would quickly undo years of work to conserve these highly threatened species.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

Here's the URL (they wrote a statement on it today): Elephants in UK zoos – Chester Zoo response | Chester Zoo

Here's the relevant statement bolded:

Thanks for sharing !

The statement does seem to support what you and others have said about a ban of elephants being tabloid speculation and sensationalism to sell papers.

 

[Nathano]

The statement does seem to support what you and others have said about a ban of elephants being tabloid speculation and sensationalism to sell papers.

What I think has happened is that somebody heard about the Elephant Welfare Group's 10-year report that is being sent to the government for review, which details changes and advances in care, and highlights areas where any improvement is required, and wrote the article not knowing what it was.

This is backed up by this quote from Goldsmith in the Sun article:

“Elephants are iconic, thoughtful and highly intelligent animals, and deserve to be looked after in environments that reflect that.

“We have been clear that all zoo elephants must enjoy the highest possible welfare standards, and that is why we commissioned a robust 10-year-long report from the UK Elephant Welfare Group to suggest and make improvements in the way elephants are kept in UK zoos, and monitor progress.

“They have been given free rein to explore the issue and deliver whatever final recommendations they see fit, and their report will be completed this year and then considered by the UK’s Zoos Expert Committee. Government will respond early next year.”