Lowland Gorillas in Europe 2021

Pertinax said:
Lomako is from pretty-well represented parents too. But I think in some instances that gets bypassed if the situation requires it. It would not surprise me if PD pressed the EEP to give them some females now, if they loose this opportunity they will be stuck with just males for many years to come and they have previously tried to get females I know. I guess it depends on what suitable gorillas are available soonest.
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But from the perspective from his mothersside Virunga could be put in some more genetic availibility. Badongo is not really in a very proliferic situation.
So a small group of two females for Lomako is in my opinion not excluded. Otherwise he could act as a gentle all male group leader.
 
john said:
So a small group of two females for Lomako is in my opinion not excluded. Otherwise he could act as a gentle all male group leader.
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I feel sure PD will at least try to get females now as they tried before but failed. They could swap the two silverbacks around perhaps if the 'wrong' one (genetically speaking) is with the two young males...
 
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Pertinax said:
Sorry but I live a long distance from Paignton. Have a good visit though.
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Pertinax said:
Gernot is nearly 6. Some young males have been fertile (and fathered young) at age 6.
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@Pertinax if there is a chance that Gernot could be sexaully mature, why have London Zoo not moved him on? @Pertinax with your wealth of experience which male do you think is the best candidate to be London's Silverback, and when do you think he will arrive? Finally now that her Dad has passed do you think Alika will spend her whole life at London Zoo. Personally I think this would be very sensible as a Mother and Daughter relationship is very strong and holding on to Alika would add a breeding female to the group. In my opion a Gorilla Familly should be founded from Majukuu (Jookie),Effie,Alika and a new Silverback. Could Shomari become London's Silverback? If this option is not viable could one of the males from Longleat or Paignton move to London?
 
Pertinax said:
I feel sure PD will at least try to get females now as they tried before but failed. They could swap the two silverbacks around perhaps if the 'wrong' one (genetically speaking) is with the two young males...
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Many thanks Pertinax for your comment. Much appreciated.
 
The Hedgehog said:
@Pertinax if there is a chance that Gernot could be sexaully mature, why have London Zoo not moved him on? @Pertinax with your wealth of experience which male do you think is the best candidate to be London's Silverback, and when do you think he will arrive? Finally now that her Dad has passed do you think Alika will spend her whole life at London Zoo. Personally I think this would be very sensible as a Mother and Daughter relationship is very strong and holding on to Alika would add a breeding female to the group. In my opion a Gorilla Familly should be founded from Majukuu (Jookie),Effie,Alika and a new Silverback. Could Shomari become London's Silverback? If this option is not viable could one of the males from Longleat or Paignton move to London?
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1. Well, they can afford to keep Gernot on a while yet, a few months at least- but he could be fertile after that.

2. EEP decide new males for breeding positions usually based on genetics/age/ temperament/availability etc. There are something like 50+ surplus males in bachelor groups around Europe. All of those at Longleat and Paignton are from genetically well-represented lines- (as is Shomari in Paira Daiza,) so maybe a less likely choice than some others, but who knows....

3. I presume London will keep young female Alika- there is no reason for her to leave and she could be a future breeding female in due course.
 
Pertinax said:
1. Well, they can afford to keep Gernot on a while yet, a few months at least- but he could be fertile after that.

2. EEP decide new males for breeding positions usually based on genetics/age/ temperament/availability etc. There are something like 50+ surplus males in bachelor groups around Europe. All of those at Longleat and Paignton are from genetically well-represented lines- (as is Shomari in Paira Daiza,) so maybe a less likely choice than some others, but who knows....

3. I presume London will keep young female Alika- there is no reason for her to leave and she could be a future breeding female in due course.
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@Pertinax it is exelent news that Alika will most likely stay at London. With three Females a new Silverback needs to be sought fast. A Gorilla Family without a male is not the best situation.
 
The Hedgehog said:
@Pertinax it is exelent news that Alika will most likely stay at London. With three Females a new Silverback needs to be sought fast. A Gorilla Family without a male is not the best situation.
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No it isn't, but they had a bad episode previously, so will be very wary of anymore bad publicity, particularly after the tiger death as well, and so are being overcautious about how long they wait before bringing in a new one.
 
@Pertinax are you happy that Alika will most probably always reside at London Zoo? I understand London's concern regarding intergrating a new Silverback into the family. If I were London Zoo I would want to avoid another incident like when Kesho murdered Tiny the infant son of Mjukuu (Jookie) and the first Western Lowland Gorilla born at London for 22 years.
 
The Hedgehog said:
@Pertinax are you happy that Alika will most probably always reside at London Zoo? I understand London's concern regarding intergrating a new Silverback into the family. If I were London Zoo I would want to avoid another incident like when Kesho murdered Tiny the infant son of Mjukuu (Jookie) and the first Western Lowland Gorilla born at London for 22 years.
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I only presume Alika will stay in London, I do not know but it seems logical. It is better not to use the term 'murdered' with reference to animals- its an emotive non-scientific description that relates to humans only really. He did attack the baby though which died from its wounds, but it was misguided of them to try such an introduction..
 
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Pertinax said:
I only presume Alika will stay in London, I do not know but it seems logical. It is better not to use the term 'murdered' with reference to animals- its an emotive non-scientific description that relates to humans only really. He did attack the baby though which died from its wounds, but it was misguided of them to try such an introduction..
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@Pertinax, I agree that the best outcome would be for Alika to remain at London, and become an additional breeding female. @Pertinax I think it is very likely that Alika will stay at London Zoo. A similar situation occurred at Dublin Zoo as Harry their Silverback passed Due to this his daugter .Kambiri remained at Dublin Zoo.

Regarding Shomari could he join the bachelor group at Port Lyme,Zoo Ouwehands,Dieren Park,Zoo,La Boissiere, Du Dore, Paignton Zoo or Zoo Safari De Thoiry?
 
The Hedgehog said:
@Pertinax,
Regarding Shomari could he join the bachelor group at Port Lyme,Zoo Ouwehands,Dieren Park,Zoo,La Boissiere, Du Dore, Paignton Zoo or Zoo Safari De Thoiry?
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Unlikely. Transferring a new silverback to an established male group is very difficult- near impossible. More likely he will stay where he is and be given new companions. Which sex I don't know.
 
GreatApeFan7 said:
On July 14th, Muna gave birth to a son at Zoo Krefeld. The baby was sired by silverback Kidogo.

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@GreatApeFan7 this is very welcome and the first positive news for the Apes at Krefeld Zoo,since the tragic fire of New Years Day 2019. The fire lead to the death of the entire Orangutan family,a couple of Gorillas a a Chimpanzee. I think the new Gorilla should be named Ash,Flame or Phoenix. This is as the youngster has risen from the tragic fire 2 and a half years ago.
 
I know I am talking now about plans for a few more years but Chester Zoo has announced plans are back in place to start on the African Grasslands Project for 2023 (Postponed due to covid). In the masterplan is a new enclosure and family of Gorillas joining in the collection in the future. But we may be talking several more years yet
 
Leaving gorilla daughters with their mother is not very natural, so it might be better to move Alika to another zoo. But as most breeding had to be stopped in the EEP, due to a lack of space, there is also less need for transfers.
I do nto think that Pairi Daiza will receive females, at least I hope not, as their enclosure is unsuitable for a breeding group.
As for Lomako, this parents were genetically very important; full sibling Badongo has not bred much, neither has full sibling Touni. But there are also some half-siblings breeding, so the line of the sire (Yaounde) is well represented by now. I guess, but do not know for sure, that there would be (genetically) better candidates.
 
Pepe said:
Leaving gorilla daughters with their mother is not very natural, so it might be better to move Alika to another zoo. But as most breeding had to be stopped in the EEP, due to a lack of space, there is also less need for transfers.
I do nto think that Pairi Daiza will receive females, at least I hope not, as their enclosure is unsuitable for a breeding group.
As for Lomako, this parents were genetically very important; full sibling Badongo has not bred much, neither has full sibling Touni. But there are also some half-siblings breeding, so the line of the sire (Yaounde) is well represented by now. I guess, but do not know for sure, that there would be (genetically) better candidates.
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Same Thought As You. Leaving Daughters With Their Mom Is Really Not A Good Idea.
 
Charlie said:
Same Thought As You. Leaving Daughters With Their Mom Is Really Not A Good Idea.
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Why not? Young females may emigrate to other groups in the wild but I'm not sure all do that by any means. In zoo groups where daughters stay in the group longterm there seems a much closer 'family' bond than among unrelated females. In a case like London, there seems no need to remove her as the new male will be unrelated, they currently only have two other females and it would save the effort of any transfers. I don't see a problem at all.
 
Pertinax said:
Why not? Young females may emigrate to other groups in the wild but I'm not sure all do that by any means. In zoo groups where daughters stay in the group longterm there seems a much closer 'family' bond than among unrelated females. In a case like London, there seems no need to remove her as the new male will be unrelated, they currently only have two other females and it would save the effort of any transfers. I don't see a problem at all.
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Neither do I @Pertinax, I think it would be very good if Alika could stay at London Zoo. At Chessington World Of Adventures they have Shanga and her Mum Shani this has worked out extremely well.
 
GaiaZoo is currently looking for a replacement for their late silverback, Makula. Due to the number of parties involved and the permits required, it will still take a couple of months. They are looking at the demeanor of potential candidates and want to make sure he'd be unrelated to the current females. Castrated male Loango, the younger brother of the late silverback, does attempt taking control but the females know how to stand their ground.

Source: Update na overlijden zilverrug Makula - GaiaZOO
 
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