Trophy Hunting

ashley-h said:
And I'm in the same boat as you by the looks of it.
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Obviously, not. You could not support your generalizing opinion about hunting other than by stating your emotions-and remain(ed) immune to factual arguments. Like I wrote before: I don't think that's an opinion that I could honestly(!) accept. Yet if you don't want to discuss this subject any more-do as you please.

Of course there are other ways to control a population other than by hunting-did I ever doubt and deny that? However, sometimes the controlled decimation of a few specimens to get trophy hunters pay big bucks which come in handy both for the local population and the local wildlife population, isn't the worst solution.
Conservation can't rely on western blue-eyed idealism; all too often, it's the direct profit that counts-especially for the local community.

"just killing everything" Another exaggeration born out of ignorance.

How should the "equipment" look like? Not all (more or less occassionally carnivorous) creatures must look like cats, snakes or owls-take a look at chimps, pigs, heck even squirrels and Brown rats. What he lacks in scary claws and teeth, Homo sapiens makes up with inventiveness (which prevents us from getting "screwed", if only temporarily, even in the most hostile environments), stamina and craftsmanship, making him able to kill almost everything, may it be 30m long cetacea, tiny bacteria (although we"re not that successful here...) or dangerous apex predators, till the brink of extinction.
Form and function of the whole human digestive track indicate an omnivorous lifestyle-and the rich diversity of food eaten worldwide by humans supports this assumption. If you don't want to eat meat, then it's your cup of tea. But don't judge about something you don't know anything about.

Hunting with spears is a double-edged subject, and not really a point of 'fairness': the hunter must be really, really good at its use, probably even more so than at using a riffle-as mistakes might not only prove to be fatal for the hunter, but also the animal. Or do you want to see jaguars dying slowly somewhere in the forest, with broken spear ends thrown by clumsy hunters sticking out of them, causing considerable pain and wound infection?
 
So would you ever go hunting?

Edit: And I did give reason, I said that although I can see where other people are coming from (which is an opnion, something everyone's allowed), I feel hunting is cruel, unneccesery and there are other ways of population control etc other than hunting. But I'm not the type to go out and throw red paint on hunters and that ;)
 
I'm right there with you ashley-h,

hunting is something I could not respect in the game itself going out and killing animals, I understand the purpose of hunting in some areas to keep populations stable but as I mentioned before I just can't stop seeing if a more superior race came down and hunted us off, to keep the human population stable for their living. Then again there might be no other option, then killing another race or your own. :(

Though what I can respect is that the people who choose to hunt. Most at least have respect and honour for the purpose and animals their hunting ( from what I've read) but of course there are always gonna be those "hoons" that go out and kill for fun. :mad:
 
dragon(ele)nerd, are you a vegetarian
I could not respect in the game itself going out and killing animals
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If you are not you are just having someone else kill animals for you to eat. I dont want peole to become vegetarians but I feel a lot of people are against killing animals but are happy if someone else does the killing and the meat arives in a foam tray covered in plastic.

ashley-h
I feel hunting is cruel, unneccesery and there are other ways of population control etc other than hunting.
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Other ways such as steraliztation are expensive and take years to have an effect, they are also an enormous waste of resources. Naturaly populations which got to big died of starvation or disease. I also dont believe hunting is cruel, animals in the wild dont die painlessly of old age.
 
I believe the most common "natural" causes of death in all wildlife are starvation, Dehydration or being hunted. . . none of these would be particularly pleasant or pain free.
 
Monty said:
dragon(ele)nerd, are you a vegetarian
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No I am not, I am a type of Buddhist who eats meat believing in the cycle of life, ( from family and I love them enough to stand by them) but every half moon and full moon, is a vegetarian day where no living creature should be harmed by repsecting Buddha. I'm sorry if this doesn't make sense to you and personally it doesn't fully to me, when I get older hopefully I will get the nerve to become a vegetarian, though sadly I don't know when it will come.

So yeah in a way I'm a hypocrit. :(
 
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ashley-h said:
So would you ever go hunting?
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Yepp, and also fishing, raising livestock for human consumption etc. Actually, have pretty much done that all already-including working in slaughterhouses...

ashley-h said:
Edit: And I did give reason, I said that although I can see where other people are coming from (which is an opnion, something everyone's allowed), I feel hunting is cruel, unneccesery and there are other ways of population control etc other than hunting.
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That's not reasoning-that's just repeating your personal opinion once again. So everyone is allowed to have an opinion (tell that to the people in North Korea and Burma...)-but does that mean everyone is entitled to bleat out anything without sensible reasoning and argumentation behind it? I somehow doubt that...or would you tolerate blantly racist, sexist or in any other form discriminating, insulting opinions stated here?


QUOTE=ashley-h;133300] But I'm not the type to go out and throw red paint on hunters and that ;) [/QUOTE] Well, that kinda mollifies me...;)

"a lot of people are against killing animals but are happy if someone else does the killing and the meat arives in a foam tray covered in plastic."

A very important point; being detached from the actual process of killing and finishing makes it very easy for a lot of people to be overcritical-but still consume the product without a bad conscience.

Personally, I think that one should honestly judge and animadvert most things only if having factual knowledge and experience in that very matter-may it be hunting or zoo exhibits.

"hopefully I will get the nerve to become a vegetarian" Why this should be a goal worth pursuing is still a mystery to me...
 
No, no, Sun - you're going about it all wrong!;)

You don't actually throw the spear at the jaguar - you wouldn't survive for very long doing that - the correct method (as I understand it) is to hold the spear firmly with both hands and advance towards the animal. When you are within its flight/fight distance and it charges you, then you impale it.

OK so I'm being a bit facetious; but I believe that hunting with a high-powered rifle is just a brisk, efficient and gutless way to kill an animal. While necessary at times, it's nothing to brag about.
 
Ara said:
is to hold the spear firmly with both hands and advance towards the animal. When you are within its flight/fight distance and it charges you, then you impale it.
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Sounds kind of unnecessarily risky and stressful for all involved, as it also requires to corner the animal. And the danger mentioned above caused by clumsily led weapons is still prominent.

About the "surviving" aspect: well, look at the Massai hunting lions...;)

"brisk, efficient" yes.
"gutless" No-unless we're talking about canned hunts here. Better ensure a quick kill than end up with a slow and painful one.
 
You do not have to be pro-shooting to understand the potential largescale conservation benefits of African game hunting.
 
@mark77: My thoughts exactly-and don't forget Game Hunting in other areas of the world-for example Central Asia.
 
Well to be fair the "spear killing method" as described above gives the animal a chance at least, survival of the fittest and all that.
And Sun, what I said was hardly insulting or discriminating. If I wanted to be picky, I could easily say that you saying "Why anyone would want to become vegetarian is a mystery to me" is discrimination, and that you saying that is hypocritical, as you gave no valid reason as to why to you feel this way. However, I'm not complaining because I don't care, it's an opinion, so lets leave this now as its getting old;)
 
@ashley-h: What is "fair"? Do you really want the human to be mauled and killed?

"survival of the fittest and all that." Sorry to say that, but that's just another cant. Let's say there's someone very dear to your heart who wants, for whatever reason, to hunt a jaguar or another dangerous animal and can't be persuaded to do otherwise. Are you sure you would want to give the animal "a chance", even if that means the death of your friend/love/relative-or would you make sure that the human will be safe?

"Why anyone would want to become vegetarian is a mystery to me" is discriminating vegetarians?!? Only if you really, really, really... want to interpret it like that-but then, you could also interpret anything NOT praising vegetarism as "discrimination", couldn't you?

Oh, I could name some reasons while I think vegetarism is not the smartest idea-may it be the resulting need of artificial supplimentation (f.e. Vitamin B-12; yeah, yeah it's easy-if you live in a country with drugstores all over the place...), its limited fidelity (think of the creation of milk products or the various consumer items incooperating animal products), its limits in 3rd World Countries ("drugstores"...) or growing juveniles or last but not least the great taste and smell of bison stew, Scaloppine or Pata negra ham...;)
In the reverse conclusion, I might also ask why humans lack features like multi-chambered intestines, functioning as fermantation "organs", teeth with very large grinding surfaces etc. to adopt them to a solely herbivorous diet...;)

If you feel it is getting "old"-why do you bring it up again and again?
 
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To try and end it :P You kind of ask me to reply anyway, but its over now. Just another point though, elephants are herbivore and I don't think they have a 4 chambered stomach.
Oh, and I said could potentially be calssified as discrimination, not that it is discrimination.
 
@ashley-h: "kind of"-another 'misinterpretation', maybe? ;) And by picking it up again and again with insufficient argumentation, won't certainly end "it"...

Instead of a chambered stomach (which doesn't have to be "4" chambered-see Tylopoda), elephants (once again mentioned!), like other large hindgut fermenters, have their large colon to serve this purpose. And don't forget to remember the large grinding molars...qed
 
Oh, I'm sorry for mentioning my favourite animal many times, such a bad thing to do :rolleyes:
 
I though you used elephants "only as an example", not because you favoured them over other animals-like pangolins, turtles or abalones? The latter would indeed be a very, very bad thing to do-after all, that would be discrimination...;)
 
Picky, picky... Lol, they are my favourite animals, but hypothetically if I were to go hunting, then I wouldn't happily shoot a zebra yet say "no, I don't want to shoot an elephant because it's an elephant".
 
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