Artificial ecosystems

Mr Gharial

Well-Known Member
5+ year member
A thread to discuss artificial ecosystems in zoos, how close can we get to a full, self-providing ecosystem in a greenhouse?

Also for things like free-roamers (and their effect on the flora), what plant types are better suited for greenhouses, what types of biomes can be replicated and the types of abiotic factors we can or cannot recreate
 
A thread to discuss artificial ecosystems in zoos, how close can we get to a full, self-providing ecosystem in a greenhouse?
So a sustainable closed system? If there are animals/insects that eat plants then there needs to be predators to control those folivores. There need to be systems to control the population of predators. Or will you include human keepers/horticulturists as part of the ecosystem?
 
Also for things like free-roamers (and their effect on the flora), what plant types are better suited for greenhouses, what types of biomes can be replicated and the types of abiotic factors we can or cannot recreate
The types of plants better suited for greenhouses and those whose requirements have been met by the greenhouse. That includes light (ambient or supplemental), humidity, temperature, etc. Soil mix will also control what can b grown
So there is no simple general answer to your question (is it a question?)
 
Given that it isn't hard to create a small-scale self-sustaining ecosystem at home (I have two different ones set up in jars) I'm surprised more zoos don't try to do this on a larger scale.
 
So a sustainable closed system? If there are animals/insects that eat plants then there needs to be predators to control those folivores. There need to be systems to control the population of predators. Or will you include human keepers/horticulturists as part of the ecosystem?

I do count human caretakers, so not a full ecosystem

I mean things like Burgers' Bush, Gondwanaland, and others
 
I do count human caretakers, so not a full ecosystem

I mean things like Burgers' Bush, Gondwanaland, and others
So all of the indoor mixed species exhibits with at least some free-range animals would be included?
Bronx Zoo JungleWorld?
Zoo Zurich Masoala Rainforest ?
Omaha Henry Doorley Zoo - Lied Jungle ?
etc.?
 
So all of the indoor mixed species exhibits with at least some free-range animals would be included?
Bronx Zoo JungleWorld?
Zoo Zurich Masoala Rainforest ?
Omaha Henry Doorley Zoo - Lied Jungle ?
etc.?

Basically, yes.

I was mainly curious about how much can be recycled, or how much extra fertilizer is needed besides that of free-roamers (and could it be possible to use that of enclosure animals)
 
Basically, yes.

I was mainly curious about how much can be recycled, or how much extra fertilizer is needed besides that of free-roamers (and could it be possible to use that of enclosure animals)
Ah... interesting question. Zoos do not pursue this so there are no answers to be found in zoo exhibits. The keepers clean up all the feces they can locate usually. Such an exhibit as you are considering would require a healthy biotic soil and there is always the risk in this sort of situation of pathogens getting established and spreading so few zoos would want to risk that.
 
Biosphere 2 tried but by now it's basically just plants and some bugs due to various issues. If they can't even get a small-scale ecosystem right yet, I wouldn't expect a zoo to try.
 
So, we've established that a true artificial ecosystem can't be replicated on a zoo scale

But there are still some questions.

Like, what are all the biomes that zoos can cover in a greenhouse?
And what animals can be kept free-roaming without being too destructive?
What impact do free-roaming animals have on the plant life?
 
That I know of, there's only five ecosystems that have been replicated in zoos

Tropical rainforests (of varying types), Deserts, Grasslands/Bushland (Sort of), swamps, and Mangroves. (Also tundra/ice desert but that's not really an ecosystem since they never use plant life)

For free-roamers I think all birds (except for Cassowaries, ostriches and most parrots) can theoretically free-roam in a greenhouse, as well as most smaller herbivorous mammals (Capibaras, Deer, Okapi, Smaller antilopes, Porcupines, Armadillos, Aardvarks, Tamanduas and Squirrels), reptiles (Turtles, Tortoises, most lizards), most primates (Squirrel monkeys, Lemurs, Macaques and Guerezas) as well as some smaller predators (Otters, Mongoose and small foxes), if done correctly. But the question is how they effect the plant life and other free-roamers
 
That I know of, there's only five ecosystems that have been replicated in zoos

Tropical rainforests (of varying types), Deserts, Grasslands/Bushland (Sort of), swamps, and Mangroves. (Also tundra/ice desert but that's not really an ecosystem since they never use plant life)

For free-roamers I think all birds (except for Cassowaries, ostriches and most parrots) can theoretically free-roam in a greenhouse, as well as most smaller herbivorous mammals (Capibaras, Deer, Okapi, Smaller antilopes, Porcupines, Armadillos, Aardvarks, Tamanduas and Squirrels), reptiles (Turtles, Tortoises, most lizards), most primates (Squirrel monkeys, Lemurs, Macaques and Guerezas) as well as some smaller predators (Otters, Mongoose and small foxes), if done correctly. But the question is how they effect the plant life and other free-roamers
Why is it that most parrots couldn’t be kept in a theoretical greenhouse?
 
Although not a greenhouse, it is basically a self-sufficient exhibit that all the aquarium has to do is to supply the fish stock every 2 months.

Fair enough. Burgers' zoo does something similar with a huge amount of cichlids and a group of tropical gars
 
That I know of, there's only five ecosystems that have been replicated in zoos

Tropical rainforests (of varying types), Deserts, Grasslands/Bushland (Sort of), swamps, and Mangroves. (Also tundra/ice desert but that's not really an ecosystem since they never use plant life)

For free-roamers I think all birds (except for Cassowaries, ostriches and most parrots) can theoretically free-roam in a greenhouse, as well as most smaller herbivorous mammals (Capibaras, Deer, Okapi, Smaller antilopes, Porcupines, Armadillos, Aardvarks, Tamanduas and Squirrels), reptiles (Turtles, Tortoises, most lizards), most primates (Squirrel monkeys, Lemurs, Macaques and Guerezas) as well as some smaller predators (Otters, Mongoose and small foxes), if done correctly. But the question is how they effect the plant life and other free-roamers

There is a lot to unpack here.

Birds;
The one you named are almost all correct.
Add emu, penguins (wouldn't advise them in a rainforest house :p) majority of predating birds, fragile birds (can be prone to diseases or just super sensitive to the climate they live in or a hard diet) or agressive birds.

Mammals:
- Okapi and Deer are not smaller herbivorous ungulates. Definitely need to be fully enclosed and probably require outdoor access, would be nice at least.
- Capybara; a destructive rodent when they get the chance to munch on plants.
- Smaller antelops; duikers presumeably, from what I know these are rather elusive animals and people-shy. So best to not have them in the same space as where humans walk. Keep them enclosed.
- Porcupine; I know brush-tailed porcupine has been kept free-roam at Dierenpark Amersfoort in De Nacht, but this is a small free-roam area. Perhaps will do fine in a larger display.
- Armadillo; similar to the porcupine, can do fine I think. Just think personally it would be a waste given how shy they can be so for visibility sakes I'd keep them enclosed.
- Tamandua; only seen them being kept in ''free-roaming'' setting where they can climb over ropes and logs that hang in the air in a ''free-roam'' environment, never heard of them being fully free-roam. Probably in similar fashion to sloths.
- Squirrels: eats bird eggs, no-go

Primates; (given u seperated them)
- Lemurs; Zürich has a pair of larger lemur and a few mouse lemurs in Masaolla halle I believe, so perhaps possible. Don't know any other places that keep them fully free-roaming
- Macaques: sounds like a bad idea, only barbary and rhesus I believe have been in walk-throughs, and they will definitely eat birdeggs or perhaps the chicks if given the chances. The tropical species also just aren't kept in walkthroughs with humans to my knowledge or mixed in exhibits with birds or reptiles.
- Guerazas: same as macaques. I think you can keep them on a island maybe but that would be it.
- Squirrel monekys: known to do ok in walkthroughs, no idea if any zoo has them with birds. I know Wildlands has them in their tropical hall but I have never been there so no idea if the birds and other animals have access to them or not.

Carnivores.. I don't even know why you put these in the list of free-roamers... Just don't.

Reptiles; seems about right though land tortoises can be destructive for the vegetation
 
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