North American Common Hippopotamus Population

csartie said:
...according to Hipposworld (which I assume likely got the majority of their data from studbooks), Bibi's parents are Rosie and Henry while Tombi's parents are Viviana and Norman.
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I've checked the North American Nile Hippopotamus Studbook (2011). This publication confirms the information on the HipposWorld website (i.e. "Henry" and "Rosie" are the parents of "Bibi" while "Norman" and "Viviana" are the parents of "Tombi"). However, as you've pointed out, HipposWorld's data presumably came from studbooks originally so this is no surprise.
csartie said:
I'm also very curious about Louisiana Purchase Zoo's hippo, Monreaux. He was born in Poland (possibly Wroclaw...?) on November 17th, 2012, but no animal with that birth date is listed on Hipposworld... I'd like to know his original name prior to import and the names of his parents, if possible..
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I've checked the European Studbook for Common Hippopotamus; frustratingly no hippos are registered as being born on 17th November 2012.
 
Tim May said:
I've checked the North American Nile Hippopotamus Studbook (2011). This publication confirms the information on the HipposWorld website (i.e. "Henry" and "Rosie" are the parents of "Bibi" while "Norman" and "Viviana" are the parents of "Tombi"). However, as you've pointed out, HipposWorld's data presumably came from studbooks originally so this is no surprise.

I've checked the European Studbook for Common Hippopotamus; frustratingly no hippos are registered as being born on 17th November 2012.
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Thank you so much!! That really makes me wonder why Saint Louis called them sisters, and continues to do so. It isn't unheard of for studbooks to have some inaccuracies, I've seen it plenty myself, so I'm eager to see if the responses from the respective zoos will clear anything up. Or at the very least confirm the studbook data!

Hopefully I'll be able to find more info on Monreaux. Very odd that he has no prior record.
 
Both Cincinnati and Saint Louis have confirmed the studbook data for their respective hippos. So it's very odd that STL chose to call them sisters throughout their time there up until current day but I won't think anymore of it, I guess!
 
csartie said:
Both Cincinnati and Saint Louis have confirmed the studbook data for their respective hippos. So it's very odd that STL chose to call them sisters throughout their time there up until current day but I won't think anymore of it, I guess!
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I think the reason why they call them sisters is because maybe at their time at STL they formed are strong sisterly bond
 
Mr.Ivory said:
Such a shame he was a great breeding bull siring 8 calves with Funani
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Yes, it’s very sad but actually he only sired 5 calves with Funani. Adhama in 2011, a male calf that died shortly after birth in 2014, Devi in 2015, Tony in 2017, and Amahle in 2020. He also has two grand-daughters through his late son Adhama: Rosie at DAK and Adanna at Dallas.

Funani's three other female calves (Mashavu and Kiboko of STL and Jazi of Ellen Trout) were sired by the late Jabba of LA.
 
Animals R AMAZING! said:
Yes, it’s very sad but actually he only sired 5 calves with Funani. Adhama in 2011, a male calf that died shortly after birth in 2014, Devi in 2015, Tony in 2017, and Amahle in 2020. He also has two grand-daughters through his late son Adhama: Rosie at DAK and Adanna at Dallas.
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I was thinking of Funani then because in the series The Zoo: San Diego a man asked how many calves Funani had the keeper said several calf's
 
Petal and Perky will be leaving Toronto eventually. They are being phased out of the zoo though to the best of our knowledge no where as offered to take the girls. They are non breeders due to an unknown pedigree and are getting up there so it will take a special home. Until then I will enjoy them.

Little fixes to other Canadian hippos...

Calgary Zoo - Calgary, Alberta - 1.1.0
1.0, Sparky - 30 May 1987 - Flaggstaff x Perky I - Grandmother of Lobi
0.1, Lobi - 31 Oct 2006 - Kiboko x Polita - Grandson of Sparky

Fun fact for you did you know in 2014 Sparky and Lobi had forbidden love twins. The calves didnt make it (thankfully in the long run) as they were very premature. They thought she was too old and he was too young

Safari Niagara - Fort Erie, Ontario - 1.1.0
1.0, Bobo - 2001 - Henry x Polita - half brother to Gladys
0.1, Gladys - 9 Feb 2003 - Kiboko x Polita - half sister to Bobo

Toronto Zoo - Toronto, Ontario - 0.2.0
0.1, Petal - 15 Jul 1986 - Patriarche x Sirene - Sister to Perky
0.1, Perky II - 23 May 1991 - Patriarche x Sirene - Sister to Petal

Zoo de Granby - Granby, Quebec - 2.1.0
0.1, Polita - 15 Jun 1997 - Parents unknown but based on birth place her father was likely Nacho while mother could be Monchi or Panch
1.0, Kiboko - 27 Aug 1992 - Foggy x Sparky
1.0, Coumba - 27 Feb 2017 - Kiboko x Polita

Greater Vancouver Zoo - 1.1.0
0.1, Hazina - 28 Dec 2003 - Kiboko x Polita - sister to Haben
1.0, Haben - 11 Aug 2005 - Kiboko x Polita - brother to Hazina

Hope thats helpful.
 
TZFan said:
Petal and Perky will be leaving Toronto eventually. They are being phased out of the zoo though to the best of our knowledge no where as offered to take the girls. They are non breeders due to an unknown pedigree and are getting up there so it will take a special home. Until then I will enjoy them.

Little fixes to other Canadian hippos...

Calgary Zoo - Calgary, Alberta - 1.1.0
1.0, Sparky - 30 May 1987 - Flaggstaff x Perky I - Grandmother of Lobi
0.1, Lobi - 31 Oct 2006 - Kiboko x Polita - Grandson of Sparky

Fun fact for you did you know in 2014 Sparky and Lobi had forbidden love twins. The calves didnt make it (thankfully in the long run) as they were very premature. They thought she was too old and he was too young

Safari Niagara - Fort Erie, Ontario - 1.1.0
1.0, Bobo - 2001 - Henry x Polita - half brother to Gladys
0.1, Gladys - 9 Feb 2003 - Kiboko x Polita - half sister to Bobo

Toronto Zoo - Toronto, Ontario - 0.2.0
0.1, Petal - 15 Jul 1986 - Patriarche x Sirene - Sister to Perky
0.1, Perky II - 23 May 1991 - Patriarche x Sirene - Sister to Petal

Zoo de Granby - Granby, Quebec - 2.1.0
0.1, Polita - 15 Jun 1997 - Parents unknown but based on birth place her father was likely Nacho while mother could be Monchi or Panch
1.0, Kiboko - 27 Aug 1992 - Foggy x Sparky
1.0, Coumba - 27 Feb 2017 - Kiboko x Polita

Greater Vancouver Zoo - 1.1.0
0.1, Hazina - 28 Dec 2003 - Kiboko x Polita - sister to Haben
1.0, Haben - 11 Aug 2005 - Kiboko x Polita - brother to Hazina

Hope thats helpful.
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Surprisingly, all of that information was on that one website that was linked a little while ago. The information about the incest twins was interesting, I didn't know that!
 
TZFan said:
Petal and Perky will be leaving Toronto eventually. They are being phased out of the zoo though to the best of our knowledge no where as offered to take the girls. They are non breeders due to an unknown pedigree and are getting up there so it will take a special home. Until then I will enjoy them.

Little fixes to other Canadian hippos...

Calgary Zoo - Calgary, Alberta - 1.1.0
1.0, Sparky - 30 May 1987 - Flaggstaff x Perky I - Grandmother of Lobi
0.1, Lobi - 31 Oct 2006 - Kiboko x Polita - Grandson of Sparky

Fun fact for you did you know in 2014 Sparky and Lobi had forbidden love twins. The calves didnt make it (thankfully in the long run) as they were very premature. They thought she was too old and he was too young

Safari Niagara - Fort Erie, Ontario - 1.1.0
1.0, Bobo - 2001 - Henry x Polita - half brother to Gladys
0.1, Gladys - 9 Feb 2003 - Kiboko x Polita - half sister to Bobo

Toronto Zoo - Toronto, Ontario - 0.2.0
0.1, Petal - 15 Jul 1986 - Patriarche x Sirene - Sister to Perky
0.1, Perky II - 23 May 1991 - Patriarche x Sirene - Sister to Petal

Zoo de Granby - Granby, Quebec - 2.1.0
0.1, Polita - 15 Jun 1997 - Parents unknown but based on birth place her father was likely Nacho while mother could be Monchi or Panch
1.0, Kiboko - 27 Aug 1992 - Foggy x Sparky
1.0, Coumba - 27 Feb 2017 - Kiboko x Polita

Greater Vancouver Zoo - 1.1.0
0.1, Hazina - 28 Dec 2003 - Kiboko x Polita - sister to Haben
1.0, Haben - 11 Aug 2005 - Kiboko x Polita - brother to Hazina

Hope thats helpful.
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Polita's parents are Ramona ("Monchi") and Nacho
 
csartie said:
Polita's parents are Ramona ("Monchi") and Nacho
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Interesting how you know that and I was able to deduce at least Nacho was the most likely father while no source material would tell me that. They said unknown. I totally take your word on it. I know you know your stuff. Just perplexing how those in charge of that info can't figure it out. Lol. Oh well.
 
TZFan said:
Interesting how you know that and I was able to deduce at least Nacho was the most likely father while no source material would tell me that. They said unknown. I totally take your word on it. I know you know your stuff. Just perplexing how those in charge of that info can't figure it out. Lol. Oh well.
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No offense meant or anything (trust me, I know next to nothing about hippos :D) but this is just what's listed in the studbook data.

If it's a keeper we're talking about that was unaware of her parentage, that wouldn't exactly mean it's a total unknown. I have known keepers that simply never learned their animal's family histories -- for them it simply wasn't relevant to the daily care they were hired to provide, particularly when dealing with a large population. There have also been cases (at least that I know of in the US) with imported animals where their parentage may officially be listed as unknown, but it isn't truly unknown at all at the origin facility. I guess sometimes that information gets left behind for some reason...?

Just a couple of possibilities, I certainly never intended to claim to know more about their animals than the people in charge -- I *definitely* don't, at all :D
 
Lol no worries @csartie, I rarely take offense to anything. We all have our sources for the info and sometimes it varies or there are gaps. Id have to have pretty thin skin to be offended by you telling me your info source.

I totally get what you are saying about knowing part of the info. I mean if they only had one bull he's definitely the dad. If they have two cows and no one loves the baby and no one saw it born then maybe you dont know. I would think one of them would be slimmer and have mammary development but Im no hippo expert either. Lol. Sorta surprises me though when they dont do the simple math for some animals. If animal A came from this zoo and they only had animals B, C, D at the time the birth should be easy enough to deduce. Totally times you cannot guess. I have seen what a nightmare record keeping was for some species in Toronto. Lots of animals in the 1970's and early 1980's they just let breed like bunnies with zero record keeping. Thankfully times have changed and for the most part everything is meticulously recorded for studbook keepers so long as the animal is from a fully accredited zoo. Little things get lost but for the most part the wild west days of lets breed these unknown animals is over.

You are definitely right about gaps in info, which I know is very prevalent in the hippos. I think its something like only 30% have a fully or partially known pedigree. And its not always the fault of todays keepers. Geez until the 1980's animal acquisition was the wild west and no one may really know the history of certain animals unless they have someone deep dive the old records to figure it out. I have a sneaking suspicion that isnt gonna happen. Though I stand willing and able to volunteer for the task at any zoo in North America. I will wade through their archives with zeal. Kinda would like to be paid though... Whole need the whole food, shelter and clothing thing. Lol.
 
TZFan said:
Lol no worries @csartie, I rarely take offense to anything. We all have our sources for the info and sometimes it varies or there are gaps. Id have to have pretty thin skin to be offended by you telling me your info source.

I totally get what you are saying about knowing part of the info. I mean if they only had one bull he's definitely the dad. If they have two cows and no one loves the baby and no one saw it born then maybe you dont know. I would think one of them would be slimmer and have mammary development but Im no hippo expert either. Lol. Sorta surprises me though when they dont do the simple math for some animals. If animal A came from this zoo and they only had animals B, C, D at the time the birth should be easy enough to deduce. Totally times you cannot guess. I have seen what a nightmare record keeping was for some species in Toronto. Lots of animals in the 1970's and early 1980's they just let breed like bunnies with zero record keeping. Thankfully times have changed and for the most part everything is meticulously recorded for studbook keepers so long as the animal is from a fully accredited zoo. Little things get lost but for the most part the wild west days of lets breed these unknown animals is over.

You are definitely right about gaps in info, which I know is very prevalent in the hippos. I think its something like only 30% have a fully or partially known pedigree. And its not always the fault of todays keepers. Geez until the 1980's animal acquisition was the wild west and no one may really know the history of certain animals unless they have someone deep dive the old records to figure it out. I have a sneaking suspicion that isnt gonna happen. Though I stand willing and able to volunteer for the task at any zoo in North America. I will wade through their archives with zeal. Kinda would like to be paid though... Whole need the whole food, shelter and clothing thing. Lol.
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No my mistake entirely, I simply misinterpreted your tone! :D This is such an unusual mystery though. I believe @Tim May has access to different studbook versions, maybe he would be so kind as to search through them and perhaps shed some light on Polita's parentage?
 
csartie said:
.... I believe @Tim May has access to different studbook versions, maybe he would be so kind as to search through them and perhaps shed some light on Polita's parentage?
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I have a number of different versions of the European hippo studbook but, unfortunately, only one version (2011) of the North American hippo studbook.

Frustratingly that doesn't answer your question as it lists "Polita's" parentage as unknown. Sorry not to be able to help with this query.
 
csartie said:
No my mistake entirely, I simply misinterpreted your tone! :D This is such an unusual mystery though. I believe @Tim May has access to different studbook versions, maybe he would be so kind as to search through them and perhaps shed some light on Polita's parentage?
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Not a problem. We dont know each other well enough from talks for you to guess tone accurately. It's what really lacks in written form, tone and body language.

Polita is a big mystery. She has been recommended for breeding and then not recommended due to unknown pedigree. All of her calves are up here in Canada not breeding when you would think they might want them or at least a couple of them in the US. Even just as options. Lots are not supposed to breed due to unknown pedigrees but she is a rare one that swings back and forth. Quite perplexing. Lets just call Maury Povich and do the DNA test, "Nacho you are not the father! But what Ramona you are not the mother either! And hold up Panch you aren't either! What? Politia you are the secret love child of a red panda and an elk." Yes I may have gone off the deep end. Lol.
 
Tim May said:
I have a number of different versions of the European hippo studbook but, unfortunately, only one version (2011) of the North American hippo studbook.

Frustratingly that doesn't answer your question as it lists "Polita's" parentage as unknown. Sorry not to be able to help with this query.
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No worries at all, thanks so much for the help Tim! You're amazing and we all appreciate you! :D

This is indeed a mystery though! My best guess is perhaps her parentage was previously published in the studbook as a best guess type of scenario and then "corrected" later on and changed to unknown. Genuinely though, I have no idea. Might be worth emailing the facilities about, Disney at least has been incredibly transparent with me in communications before!
 
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