Australasian Asian Elephant Population 2021

@Zoofan15 Poor Gandhi hey having to live in chains constantly so messed up. I've only heard of Sarina's ride giving so don't have any knowledge to offer about which female Asian Eles' beside her gave rides to visitors but on the subject of Chori's living quarters apparently it was the exhibit you mentioned near the present Gorillas and the old Ostrich & Cassowary enclosures. Would be great if we could find out where the ride giving Elephants were kept when not carrying people during the ride giving times, wonder if they just stayed in a typically cramped stable next to the ride path maybe? For want of a better word its odd remembering that the ride area is exactly where Pak Boon and Tang Mo are living right now.

p.s sorry that map actually came from a heritage impact assesment report by Taronga's heritage office from 2015 around the area where the Tiger Trek was being constructed, I merely screen-shotted it (wish I had taken the time to find a picture restoring app that could have removed the green circles and writing drawn over it before uploading it last year)
 
Last edited:
steveroberts said:
@Zoofan15 Poor Gandhi hey having to live in chains constantly so messed up. I've only heard of Sarina's ride giving so don't have any knowledge to offer about which female Asian Eles' beside her gave rides to visitors but on the subject of Chori's living quarters apparently it was the exhibit you mentioned near the present Gorillas and the old Ostrich & Cassowary enclosures. Would be great if we could find out where the ride giving Elephants were kept when not carrying people during the ride giving times, wonder if they just stayed in a typically cramped stable next to the ride path maybe? For want of a better word its odd remembering that the ride area is exactly where Pak Boon and Tang Mo are living right now.

p.s sorry that map actually came from a heritage impact assesment report by Taronga's heritage office from 2015 around the area where the Tiger Trek was being constructed, I merely screen-shotted it (wish I had taken the time to find a picture restoring app that could have removed the green circles and writing drawn over it before uploading it last year)
Click to expand...

It was sadly common practice for that era. Interestingly Auckland Zoo chose to shoot their young bull elephant in 1936 (after he became unmanageable) as that was perceived as a greater mercy than the alternative of being permanently kept in chains.

Chori died 18/04/1979. She suffered a fall during an attempt to crate her for transfer to Taronga Western Plains Zoo. Taronga Zoo’s last African elephant was a female named Toto. She arrived 02/12/1982 and was transferred to Dubbo 10/02/1983, where she died of a heart attack the following year aged 16 years.

I suspect Sarina was walked to and from the ride area from her exhibit at the Elephant Temple, as it wasn’t a huge distance. Postcards from the Zoo had a story about her evening walk through the zoo with her keeper (possibly following a day giving rides) and told how the routine included a trip to the cafeteria, where she’d receive a currant bun from the staff. If they got there too late and the cafeteria was closed, her keeper had a devil of a job persuading her to move on.
 
If Tukta was still alive could she have been mated by Pathi Harn or Putra Mas which would have gave the Australian Population with three distinct matriarchal lines Dokkoon and Mali, Porntip and Kanlaya, and Pak Boon and Tukta
 
Mr.Ivory said:
If Tukta was still alive could she have been mated by Pathi Harn or Putra Mas which would have gave the Australian Population with three distinct matriarchal lines Dokkoon and Mali, Porntip and Kanlaya, and Pak Boon and Tukta
Click to expand...

Usually the breeding programme aims to exhaust founders like Putra Mas before breeding from first generation bulls; however this would have likely been outweighed by practicality in that Pathi Harn was closer/on site (depending on which of Taronga’s zoos they were based at).

When Taronga undertook AI with Porntip, it was decided Bong Su would be used as the donor (rather than Gung) so that all the calves at Taronga weren’t from the same bull.

Tukta’s death was a huge blow to Taronga and to Pak Boon as it’s set their breeding programme back several years in that the first member of the second generation of their herd won’t come for at least another decade.
 
Zoofan15 said:
When Taronga undertook AI with Porntip, it was decided Bong Su would be used as the donor (rather than Gung) so that all the calves at Taronga weren’t from the same bull.
Click to expand...

Also because Gung wasn't rained for such a procedure at that time. Interestingly they chose Bong Su, who was already becoming a father at Melbourne, rather than Putra Mas, who had no children.

Zoofan15 said:
Usually the breeding programme aims to exhaust founders like Putra Mas before breeding from first generation bulls; however this would have likely been outweighed by practicality in that Pathi Harn was closer/on site (depending on which of Taronga’s zoos they were based at).
Click to expand...

Pathi Harn could theoretically be used as a second breeding bull in the future besides Gung, as he could breed with Thong Dee, and even Anjalee and Pak Boon, if she comes. He is only one of three descendants of Bong Su within the region, and so is very genetically valuable, especially if Man Jai will be sent overseas in the future.
 
Man Jai’s Tusk Removal

Man Jai at Melbourne Zoo has recently undergone a procedure to remove both his tusks, after they became broken. This was necessary to prevent infection.

It was filmed for Mega Zoo (Zoos Victoria TV series): Video: Zookeepers prepare for risky elephant surgery on Mega Zoo

Ignore his cringe barn name (many of Zoos Victoria’s elephants and apes have them).

Three of the Australasian bred bulls have now had tusks removed:

Luk Chai (2009) - both tusks removed
Pathi Harn (2010) - both tusks intact
Ongard (2010) - one tusk removed
Sanook (2013) - N/A - died 2013
Man Jai (2013) - both tusks removed
Sabai (2016) - both tusks intact
Jai Dee (2017) - N/A - died 2020

Hopefully the move to the open range zoos will decrease these occurrences (which are common in city zoos). Sabai at Taronga Western Plains Zoo is growing an impressive set of tusks.
 
Animals R AMAZING! said:
That's exactly what I thought. What is the point of a barn name? I don't think any zoos here in the US give their animals two different names.
Click to expand...

Jambo said:
It's a name used for their animals so they don't respond to the public, who call them by their media names. Still, the name Bob is an interesting choice.
Click to expand...

Bizarrely they choose to announce his barn name to a show screening to thousands of people, many of which will now visit Melbourne Zoo and bellow “BOB!!!” to see if it gets a reaction.

Many Australasian zoos give their animals nicknames (usually variations of their actual name); but as far as I know, only Melbourne have media names vs barn names. Overseas, I know London Zoo implemented it for their Asian elephants.

Num Oi’s last calf didn’t live long enough to be officially named (with a traditional Thai name), but the keepers gave her the barn name of Willow; while Dokkoon’s alternative name is Chaba.
 
steveroberts said:
Poor Luk Chai, Man Jai and Ongard for their tusks being gone (and Jai Dee and Sanook for dying but if they were unwell then they're at least at rest I guess)
Click to expand...

Sanook’s death was a tragic and potentially preventable accident (though hindsight is a wonderful thing). After his death, they cut the tyres across the midsection so no further suffocation incidents could occur. On reflection, Sanook’s death has become even more saddening given he represented Bong Su’s line, who will never sire more offspring. His line will hopefully continue in the region through Pathi Harn and Man Jai (and of course Mali).

Jai Dee died of intestinal torsion. It’s incredibly common in ungulates and just bad luck he contracted it. There was little the zoo could have done to prevent it. Hopefully Pak Boon will breed again in the near future - either through AI (via Putra Mas or Gung); or naturally if they’re ever transferred to Dubbo.
 
Zoofan15 said:
Hopefully the move to the open range zoos will decrease these occurrences (which are common in city zoos). Sabai at Taronga Western Plains Zoo is growing an impressive set of tusks.
Click to expand...

I watched this episode of Mega Zoo quite a while ago and it was stated that he broke both tusks sparring "with other elephants" which is interesting, as this second removal I'm pretty sure was before Luk Chai even arrived at Melbourne Zoo, meaning that he broke it playfighting against one of the cows?
I find this strange as Pathi Harn and Sabai spar all the time, much more aggressively than any cow would and are both developing fine tusks.
Is it really because Man Jai has a poor diet resulting in brittle tusks? Or is it really due to him overusing toys and grinding into fences as a result of limited space?
 
Swanson02 said:
I watched this episode of Mega Zoo quite a while ago and it was stated that he broke both tusks sparring "with other elephants" which is interesting, as this second removal I'm pretty sure was before Luk Chai even arrived at Melbourne Zoo, meaning that he broke it playfighting against one of the cows?
I find this strange as Pathi Harn and Sabai spar all the time, much more aggressively than any cow would and are both developing fine tusks.
Is it really because Man Jai has a poor diet resulting in brittle tusks? Or is it really due to him overusing toys and grinding into fences as a result of limited space?
Click to expand...

Man Jai would have been sparring with any cow willing to engage him. Gung was removed from the Taronga herd at a similar age as he was repeatedly sparring with Porntip (the matriarch) and Pak Boon and becoming a nuisance.

The usual cause of tusk damage is an elephant grinding into fences due to limited space/boredom. This usually results in cracks or breaks where the pulp cavity is not exposed (and trimming of the tusk may be adequate). Trauma (the elephant breaking the tusk at high impact e.g. sparring) can expose the pulp cavity, which allows infection to set in. Tusk removal is usually a necessity in this case.

Assuming it was the latter, it’s reasonable to conclude sparring is more prevalent in city zoos vs open range zoos as the elephant’s close presence to one another induces sparring vs an open range exhibit that gives them space to get away from each other and opportunities to engage with other things in the exhibit besides each other.
 
A young bull could live in a 200 acre exhibit, and it will still spar like crazy. It's just in the nature of the young males.

They love to tussle and fight and push their limits, and since they never have to want for food or water, they can focus all their energy into being little (big?) pains in the butt.

Truth be told though, I think the Australasian region might be a bit overzealous in their management of tusk breaks, i've seen a number of young bulls snap their tusks off right to the sulcus, and after a few years they regrow just fine. Not to insinuate that his tusks didn't have to be removed in this situation, but I always wonder.
 
Hyak_II said:
Truth be told though, I think the Australasian region might be a bit overzealous in their management of tusk breaks, i've seen a number of young bulls snap their tusks off right to the sulcus, and after a few years they regrow just fine. Not to insinuate that his tusks didn't have to be removed in this situation, but I always wonder.
Click to expand...

There’s a number of studies that state that once breaks result in the exposure of the pulp cavity, infections can quickly set in and spread to surrounding tissues. I imagine this is what Ongard and Man Jai suffered; as opposed to longitudinal surface cracks - which can be simply filed.

In Luk Chai’s case, he had brittle tusks and after breaking them, an infection had been found to have set in.

In zoos, the tusks have no function in the bulls besides aesthetic value. The zoos are no doubt keen to avoid any unnecessary risk to the elephant which could result in expensive treatment and a potential PR headache if the elephant died of a preventable infection.
 
Australia Zoo’s elephants now on display:

Australia Zoo’s elephants are finally on display - two years after their import from Indonesia.

They will be joined in a few months by Burma from Auckland Zoo.

0.1 Megawati (19/07/1999) Sidarta x Umri
0.1 Widya (00/00/2001) Unknown x Unknown
0.1 Christina (00/00/2010) Unknown x Unknown
0.1 Raflesia (00/11/2014) Unknown x Unknown

0.1 Burma (00/00/1982) Wild x Wild
 
Zoofan15 said:
Australia Zoo’s elephants now on display:

Australia Zoo’s elephants are finally on display - two years after their import from Indonesia.

They will be joined in a few months by Burma from Auckland Zoo.

0.1 Megawati (19/07/1999) Sidarta x Umri
0.1 Widya (00/00/2001) Unknown x Unknown
0.1 Christina (00/00/2010) Unknown x Unknown
0.1 Raflesia (00/11/2014) Unknown x Unknown

0.1 Burma (00/00/1982) Wild x Wild
Click to expand...
It turns out only Widya and Christina are on display
Whilst Megawati and Raflesia are remaining off display for the time being.
 
Patrick Keegan said:
It turns out only Widya and Christina are on display
Whilst Megawati and Raflesia are remaining off display for the time being.
Click to expand...

Presumably Megawati was experiencing some trepidation with the new exhibit and Raflesia has remained with her for company.

This could potentially affect the herd dynamics as Megawati’s role as matriarch is to forge the way for the group and provide guidance in an unfamiliar environment (i.e. the new exhibit). This role is currently being fulfilled by Widya, who will be providing guidance to Christina and will be instrumental in reassuring the others when they join them on exhibit.
 
Zoofan15 said:
Presumably Megawati was experiencing some trepidation with the new exhibit and Raflesia has remained with her for company.

This could potentially affect the herd dynamics as Megawati’s role as matriarch is to forge the way for the group and provide guidance in an unfamiliar environment (i.e. the new exhibit). This role is currently being fulfilled by Widya, who will be providing guidance to Christina and will be instrumental in reassuring the others when they join them on exhibit.
Click to expand...

Maybe the hope is for Burma to fufill the role of matriarch once she arrives.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top