What is your favourite Orangutan's indoor exhibit?

[StellarChaser]

I find that within this thread, Best and worst local zoo exhibits all of the people who mention Toronto Zoo state that the worst exhibit of Trt Zoo is the orangutan's exhibit. The reason might be that Trt Zoo only has an indoor exhibit for orangutans, or the facilities are outdated? So I am curious that based on your visit and opinions, which zoo's indoor exhibit of orangutans do you think is great?

Here is the picture of Trt Zoo's orangutan indoor exhibit

 

[pendraig_milnerae]

Of the ones I’ve seen, both of Chester’s indoor orang exhibits are great (Monsoon Forest in Islands, and Realm of the Red Ape), however that may be slightly squeezed given the presence of very good outdoor exhibits as well. I’m terms of ones further afield, I have little familiarity, I seem to recall the indoor space as Zoo de la Palmyre being very good (granted I may not be remembering correctly) and I’d imagine there are a number elsewhere in continental Europe and also in the states.

 

[StellarChaser]

@Paleoarchontas How do you think of Toronto Zoo's orangutan exhibit showing in the picture?

 

[StellarChaser]

Of the ones I’ve seen, both of Chester’s indoor orang exhibits are great (Monsoon Forest in Islands, and Realm of the Red Ape), however that may be slightly squeezed given the presence of very good outdoor exhibits as well. I’m terms of ones further afield, I have little familiarity, I seem to recall the indoor space as Zoo de la Palmyre being very good (granted I may not be remembering correctly) and I’d imagine there are a number elsewhere in continental Europe and also in the states.

Zoo Leipzig and Omaha Henry Doorly 's orangutan indoor exhibits also look pretty good

 

[red river hog]

The reason might be that Trt Zoo only has an indoor exhibit for orangutans, or the facilities are outdated? So I am curious that based on your visit and opinions, which zoo's indoor exhibit of orangutans do you think is great?

Here is the picture of Trt Zoo's orangutan indoor exhibit

This is not a bad indoor orangutan exhibit, I'd even say above average, but the issue in my opinion is that the orangutans have no access to grass (or any plants at all) and the exhibit is rather barren.

I'm not saying that all-indoor orang exhibits are inherently poor, but vegetation is a must for a forest-dwelling ape, IMO.

 

[StellarChaser]

This is not a bad indoor orangutan exhibit, I'd even say above average, but the issue in my opinion is that the orangutans have no access to grass (or any plants at all) and the exhibit is rather barren.

I'm not saying that all-indoor orang exhibits are inherently poor, but vegetation is a must for a forest-dwelling ape, IMO.

Haha seems most zoos' orangutan indoor exhibits are barren, while for Toronto Zoo, the neighbor of orangutan, the Lar Gibbons live in an exhibit that has trees and other vegetation, I don't know whether those orangutans would admire that two Lar Gibbons' green playground

 

[red river hog]

Haha seems most zoos' orangutan indoor exhibits are barren, while for Toronto Zoo, the neighbor of orangutan, the Lar Gibbons live in an exhibit that has trees and other vegetation, I don't know whether those orangutans would admire that two Lar Gibbons' green playground

I'd guess that's because the orangs would be destructive to plants, but I feel like there could be at least some more effort put into making the exhibit more naturalistic.

 

[CheeseChameleon1945]

Here is the picture of Trt Zoo's orangutan indoor exhibit

Looks like a kids playground.
Honestly I can't tell if I love it or hate it.

 

[JT]

Of the ones I’ve seen, both of Chester’s indoor orang exhibits are great (Monsoon Forest in Islands, and Realm of the Red Ape), however that may be slightly squeezed given the presence of very good outdoor exhibits as well. I’m terms of ones further afield, I have little familiarity, I seem to recall the indoor space as Zoo de la Palmyre being very good (granted I may not be remembering correctly) and I’d imagine there are a number elsewhere in continental Europe and also in the states.

It might be worth remembering that Tuan is still living offshow at Chester, but we wouldn’t know what the old indoor enclosure looks like because it’s never been open to the public!

 

[Zooplantman]

This is not a bad indoor orangutan exhibit, I'd even say above average, but the issue in my opinion is that the orangutans have no access to grass (or any plants at all) and the exhibit is rather barren.

I'm not saying that all-indoor orang exhibits are inherently poor, but vegetation is a must for a forest-dwelling ape, IMO.

Why?
What do these forest-dwelling apes need grass for?
If an indoor exhibit is otherwise great (as is Chester's) but has no grass, is that a problem? Does seasonal access to outdoor grass change that?
Why?

 

[CheeseChameleon1945]

Why?
What do these forest-dwelling apes need grass for?
If an indoor exhibit is otherwise great (as is Chester's) but has no grass, is that a problem? Does seasonal access to outdoor grass change that?
Why?

I think it's because @red river hog would like a more naturalistic looking exhibit to replicate there native range better, I-Think?
At least that's what I think he's trying to say. I'll wait for his response.

 

[Aardwolf]

To be fair, you don't see a lot of grass in the rainforest. I've never been to Indonesia, but I've seen wild primates in rainforests before, and unless you're in a clearing, the substrate is a combination of low, shade-tolerant plants and decayed leaves/logs/etc

 

[Zooplantman]

To be fair, you don't see a lot of grass in the rainforest. I've never been to Indonesia, but I've seen wild primates in rainforests before, and unless you're in a clearing, the substrate is a combination of low, shade-tolerant plants and decayed leaves/logs/etc

I agree. Orangs are notoriously hard on plants. But I don't see why a lawn is a requirement. There are a variety of approaches to landscaping orang exhibits although the great majority of orang exhibits are variations on playgounds set on a lawn or circus high-wire acts.... not rainforest. Neither of which relates to their natural habitat.
Hence my question to @red river hog hog

 

[pendraig_milnerae]

I agree. Orangs are notoriously hard on plants. But I don't see why a lawn is a requirement. There are a variety of approaches to landscaping orang exhibits although the great majority of orang exhibits are variations on playgounds set on a lawn or circus high-wire acts.... not rainforest. Neither of which relates to their natural habitat.
Hence my question to @redriverhog

I think it's because @red river hog would like a more naturalistic looking exhibit to replicate there native range better, I-Think?
At least that's what I think he's trying to say. I'll wait for his response.

To be fair, you don't see a lot of grass in the rainforest. I've never been to Indonesia, but I've seen wild primates in rainforests before, and unless you're in a clearing, the substrate is a combination of low, shade-tolerant plants and decayed leaves/logs/etc

I think it’s more about naturalism, less of the idea of grass specifically, and more to do with just not having concrete, because let’s be honest, concrete flooring isn’t particularly appealing.

 

[Zooplantman]

I think it’s more about naturalism, less of the idea of grass specifically, and more to do with just not having concrete, because let’s be honest, concrete flooring isn’t particularly appealing.

I was hoping that @red river hog had a good reason and perhaps they do.
Chester's indoor exhibits are as unnatural as any but functionally they are excellent. Same for Indianapolis (not a personal favorite but the apes seem to do well there)

 

[StoppableSan]

I'd guess that's because the orangs would be destructive to plants, but I feel like there could be at least some more effort put into making the exhibit more naturalistic.

Woodland Park's a good example of this, however the idea of looking down on them is inevitable if you want the orangutans to be at eye level within the canopy.

 

[red river hog]

Why?
What do these forest-dwelling apes need grass for?
If an indoor exhibit is otherwise great (as is Chester's) but has no grass, is that a problem? Does seasonal access to outdoor grass change that?
Why?

Exactly as @Paleoarchontas said. I think it would be better to have something to make this exhibit more natural. I was think in plants (not limited to grass), but I understand that they would be to destructive to them. Perhaps a well established tree or some rockwork would improve the exhibit.

I also don't think this is required of all indoor orangutan exhibits. As I said, I think this exhibit is an above average indoor exhibit, but it differs from most zoos in that the orangs have zero outdoor access, which means no access to plants.

 

[Jurek7]

Visually, the best I know is at Hamburg, Germany. It has an openable roof. Kudos for the climbing structures of various thickness, many high resting places, visual barriers and ropes allowing apes to swing. Wild orangutans use lots of swinging or swaying branches during moving. Unfortunately, once an orangutan drowned in the water moat. The living tree protected by hot wire is apparently the latest of succession of several expensive trees which either died or orangutans got to them.

However, like most orangutan exhibits, it has only one space for the group of apes. Orangutans are solitary in the wild, and specialists may think they value other things more.

The biggest exhibit I know is in Amneville, France

Again, big diversity of climbing thickness and above ground resting places, but no visual barriers letting the apes hide from each other, and visually rather bland. I think glass barriers are the best, because they allow apes to have lots of loose branches and manipulable objects, without fear of escaping on them like on ladders, or throwing at visitors.

BTW, grass usually survives in orangutan exhibits, and I think low bamboo or low scrub, or maybe also tall tree bamboo might work, too. Taller trees are, unfortunately, broken during attempts to build sleeping nests every night.

 

[Blijdorpenaar]

I just had a look at Chester, and it does look spacious to me, but also pretty empty. No way for the animals to get out of sight of the visitors. Or am I wrong?
Monsoon Forest - Silvery gibbon/Sumatran orangutan enclosure 181021 - ZooChat
Monsoon Forest - Silvery gibbon/Sumatran orangutan enclosure 181021 - ZooChat
Sumatran Orangutan indoor enclosure (2) - ZooChat

 

[pendraig_milnerae]

I just had a look at Chester, and it does look spacious to me, but also pretty empty. No way for the animals to get out of sight of the visitors. Or am I wrong?
Monsoon Forest - Silvery gibbon/Sumatran orangutan enclosure 181021 - ZooChat
Monsoon Forest - Silvery gibbon/Sumatran orangutan enclosure 181021 - ZooChat
Sumatran Orangutan indoor enclosure (2) - ZooChat

For the exhibit you're correct there, it is very exposed (despite maybe at the bottom directly below the glass because of the angle, but I think that might be pushing it), in terms of privacy they'd have to go into their off-show area, but that's not an actual enclosure but rather a series of 'stalls'.