North American Asian and African Elephant Populations: Discussion and Speculation

[John Marchwick]

It is the exhibit provides logs and tires for enrichment, naturally growing trees for shelter, a pool for wallowing and the opportunity for grazing

Ok. That sounds like a good choice for those 3.

I’m a bit hopeful for the future of Asian Elephants in the United States. Things do seem to be slowly getting better. Still haven’t heard anything on how Jasmines doing in her battle with EEHV. I’m really hoping she beats that virus.

Regarding African Elephants we are seeing first time mothers Claire and Kiki having calves for the first time so that’s exciting

 

[Mr.Ivory]

Ok. That sounds like a good choice for those 3.

I’m a bit hopeful for the future of Asian Elephants in the United States. Things do seem to be slowly getting better. Still haven’t heard anything on how Jasmines doing in her battle with EEHV. I’m really hoping she beats that virus.

Regarding African Elephants we are seeing first time mothers Claire and Kiki having calves for the first time so that’s exciting

It is a very good news to have two confirmed pregnancies in the African Elephants Population, and Omaha might have three more cows the are pregnant, as well as Sedgwick county, Fresno and Dallas might also have pregnant cows.

 

[John Marchwick]

It is a very good news to have two confirmed pregnancies in the African Elephants Population, and Omaha might have three more cows the are pregnant, as well as Sedgwick county, Fresno and Dallas might also have pregnant cows.

I highly doubt Dallas to be honest just because… well, let’s just say I’m not that confident with breeding occurring there in the future. Fresno I do see as a possibility. Sedgwick County as well so will see.

 

[Mr.Ivory]

I highly doubt Dallas to be honest just because… well, let’s just say I’m not that confident with breeding occurring there in the future. Fresno I do see as a possibility. Sedgwick County as well so will see.

All we can do is hope that Dallas will become successful in the future, not every bull can be Jackson and Mabu

 

[John Marchwick]

Jasmine lost her live to EEHV last night and I’m truly devastated. My worst fear and a horrible way to start of 2022 in the Asian Elephant population.

I read somewhere on an earlier thread when Lily died at the Oregon Zoo from EEHV in 2018, it was believed that Samson gave her the virus. If that’s the case (I’m just gonna say it). I want Samson and Albert AWAY from Rosanna. They should use a different bull to breed with Rosanna as in one that actually has genetic diversity and isn’t related to Samson or any of his relatives.

also if Rosanna is pregnant what are the chances of that calf dying from EEHV considering all of her calves have lost their live from EEHV. Do you think Rosanna even wants to have children of her own again. If I recall this same phenomenon happened with Mei Thai at the Houston Zoo correct as she lost all her calves from EEHV. And has anyone heard anything about a vaccine?

 

[Mai Thai]

Jasmine lost her live to EEHV last night and I’m truly devastated. My worst fear and a horrible way to start of 2022 in the Asian Elephant population.

I read somewhere on an earlier thread when Lily died at the Oregon Zoo from EEHV in 2018, it was believed that Samson gave her the virus. If that’s the case (I’m just gonna say it). I want Samson and Albert AWAY from Rosanna. They should use a different bull to breed with Rosanna as in one that actually has genetic diversity and isn’t related to Samson or any of his relatives.

also if Rosanna is pregnant what are the chances of that calf dying from EEHV considering all of her calves have lost their live from EEHV. Do you think Rosanna even wants to have children of her own again. If I recall this same phenomenon happened with Mei Thai at the Houston Zoo correct as she lost all her calves from EEHV. And has anyone heard anything about a vaccine?

Unfortunately it is to late for Rozanna as she already has the virus. EEHV is mainly transmitted sexually and can still be passed on through AI so she definitely has the virus. She will not show any symptoms or die from the virus as she is an adult.

I think there is a high chance that Rozie’s future calf will catch EEHV but not until it is in its toddler stage or when Rozie try’s to ween it. There are a lot of zoos and science institutions working to create a vaccine but none have been made yet.

 

[John Marchwick]

Unfortunately it is to late for Rozanna as she already has the virus. EEHV is mainly transmitted sexually and can still be passed on through AI so she definitely has the virus. She will not show any symptoms or die from the virus as she is an adult.

I think there is a high chance that Rozie’s future calf will catch EEHV but not until it is in its toddler stage or when Rozie try’s to ween it. There are a lot of zoos and science institutions working to create a vaccine but none have been made yet.

so the next calf Rosanna calf has is basically going to die? Did not know Rosanna has the virus either which makes it even that much worse. I heard she could be pregnant again but that truly worries me after she’s lost all 3 of her calves from EEHV

 

[IndianRhino]

Yes, I agree with @Mai Thai, there is a very good chance any future offspring of Rozie will catch the virus as well but they may not necessarily die of it. All 3 of Asha at OKC's daughters have caught the virus but only her eldest died of it so hopefully Rozie's future offspring are treated properly and are able to survive it.

Regarding a vaccine, you'll definitely hear something when one is made. It has proven to be quite difficult to make and perfect and it will be a very very big deal once it is made. Hopefully that day comes soon, it breaks my heart to see so many calves succumbing to this *evil* virus...

 

[John Marchwick]

Yes, I agree with @Mai Thai, there is a very good chance any future offspring of Rozie will catch the virus as well but they may not necessarily die of it. All 3 of Asha at OKC's daughters have caught the virus but only her eldest died of it so hopefully Rozie's future offspring are treated properly and are able to survive it.

Regarding a vaccine, you'll definitely hear something when one is made. It has proven to be quite difficult to make and perfect and it will be a very very big deal once it is made. Hopefully that day comes soon, it breaks my heart to see so many calves succumbing to this *evil* virus...

But all 3 of Rosanna’s calves died from EEHV. The Oklahoma City’s Zoo elephant herd has a better history of fighting off the virus. If I recall Chandra was able to overcome EEHV on her own? And unlike with Ashas three calves, not all of hers died from EEHV like Rosanna’s. And unlike with Oklahoma City Zoo, they’re gonna be able to have that multigenerational herd. Albuquerques zoo I don’t think will ever get that opportunity now.

 

[IndianRhino]

But all 3 of Rosanna’s calves died from EEHV. The Oklahoma City’s Zoo elephant herd has a better history of fighting off the virus. If I recall Chandra was able to overcome EEHV on her own? And unlike with Ashas three calves, not all of hers died from EEHV like Rosanna’s. And unlike with Oklahoma City Zoo, they’re gonna be able to have that multigenerational herd. Albuquerques zoo I don’t think will ever get that opportunity now.

I obviously dont know what's going to happen in the future but zoos definitely do get better at treating their calves for EEHV and I definitely wouldn't say ABQ will never be able to have a multigenerational herd now.

Take Houston, for example, they have lost a ton of calves to the virus but they sucessfully treated Baylor, Tupelo and Joy and now their herd is growing regularly and thriving (knock on wood). Chester in the UK has had an even more terrible past with EEHV but in 2019 they sucessfully treated Indali and I believe Anjan also caught the virus and survived.

 

[John Marchwick]

Tupelo caught it? Wow has she come a long way since. Now she’s the mother of her one calf Winnie. Joy I knew caught it. I knew they had lost calves to EEHV in the past but I only know of Mac that caught it and died at the Houston Zoo. He was Shanti and Thailands son. I’m pretty sure Tupelo and Baylor both are old enough to fight the virus off on their own. Who were the others at the Houston Zoo that caught EEHV but died from it?

Regarding Rosanna and her mother Alice, I doubt Alice will live long enough to see a great grandchild of hers born. Rosanna is turning 30 this year and only has probably 10 years left before she stops reproducing. She has nothing to show for it as far as calves go. Has no children to carry on her legacy in the next generation. If zoos are getting better treating EEHV than how come all of the Asian elephants that have caught EEHV between 2020 - 2022 have died with the exception of Kairavi at the Oklahoma City Zoo In the US? Things do not look good right now for the Asian Elephant Population if females like Rosanna and Mali are losing their calves.

 

[IndianRhino]

Who were the others at the Houston Zoo that caught EEHV but died from it?

All of Thai and Me-thai's calves died of the virus besides her stillborn. I believe a few of Thai and Indu's calves also died because of it.

If zoos are getting better treating EEHV than how come all of the Asian elephants that have caught EEHV between 2020 - 2022 have died with the exception of Kairavi at the Oklahoma City Zoo In the US?

There was a point where virtually every calf that caught the virus died. I believe Chandra from OKC was the first survivor in 1997 and since then a number of calves have survived. So yes, zoos are getting better at treating their calves... you can't just use a tiny sample size of 2 years. Im not saying zoos are amazing at treating calves now, all I'm saying is that they have improved greatly in the last two decades.

Things do not look good right now for the Asian Elephant Population if females like Rosanna and Mali are losing their calves.

I do agree with you that things aren't looking very good... it really makes you feel a bit hopeless. The only way we can get past these losses is if more calves are being born, that way losing one or two calves a year won't be as detrimental to the population. Anyway, luckily Mali has a son, two sisters, and a niece in the US as well as a few relatives in Europe. Rozie only has her mom now so I really really hope she has a (female) calf soon that survives to adulthood and breeds because if this doesn't happen Ranchipur and Alice's super valuable wildborn genetics will be lost.

 

[John Marchwick]

Regarding your second point I agree that’s fair. They wouldn’t be recovering at all had it not been for treatments.

Regarding your third point Mali is still very young and can still have calves (also I heard she was mating with Doc last year in 2021). Im actually not too worried about her for now as she’s only 24 and she actually has a son still alive. (Also has anybody heard if shes been having mammary development because I know she was breeding with Doc last year). Rosanna has no children alive at all and she’s much more valuable genetically. I wish Albuquerque would stop breeding her with males that don’t have any genetic diversity and instead with males that will improve the population genetically.

 

[John Marchwick]

Bob Lee, Associate Director of BioPark stated this today in the Albuquerque Journal

“Albert, a mature bull, is 23 and Rozie, who is Jazmine and Thorn’s mother, is 30. Lee said that Albert and Rozie have been recommended to breed.”

I’m starting to wonder considering the fact that the associate director stated this I have a feeling Rosanna is not pregnant. Granite zoos do lie I’ll admit but I just have a bad feeling that’s not the case here. And wasn’t Albert the father of Daisy who died from EEHV 6 years ago at ABQ BioPark? I know he has no genetic diversity and it’s a waste of time to be breeding him with Rosanna.

2nd elephant death deals ABQ BioPark Zoo a 'devastating blow'

 

[Elephantelephant]

Bob Lee, Associate Director of BioPark stated this today in the Albuquerque Journal

“Albert, a mature bull, is 23 and Rozie, who is Jazmine and Thorn’s mother, is 30. Lee said that Albert and Rozie have been recommended to breed.”

I’m starting to wonder considering the fact that the associate director stated this I have a feeling Rosanna is not pregnant. Granite zoos do lie I’ll admit but I just have a bad feeling that’s not the case here. And wasn’t Albert the father of Daisy who died from EEHV 6 years ago at ABQ BioPark? I know he has no genetic diversity and it’s a waste of time to be breeding him with Rosanna.

2nd elephant death deals ABQ BioPark Zoo a 'devastating blow'

I also don't think she's pregnant, but maybe she's just mated (or they done AI). Let's be surprised. At the moment, the most important thing is that Rozie has another calf as soon as possible, and I don't think it matters at all whether Albert is genetically valuable or not. Even if a different bull were better, than they got him and he will breed with Rozie, it may take a year. There are desperately few calves and everyone is important.

 

[John Marchwick]

I also don't think she's pregnant, but maybe she's just mated (or they done AI). Let's be surprised. At the moment, the most important thing is that Rozie has another calf as soon as possible, and I don't think it matters at all whether Albert is genetically valuable or not. Even if a different bull were better, than they got him and he will breed with Rozie, it may take a year. There are desperately few calves and everyone is important.

I heard rumors on zoochat she could be. The reason I said I hoped she has a calf with a male with much more genetic diversity is because she herself is genetically valuable and it’s critical genetic diversity gets spread throughout the elephant population. However you’re right about her needing to have a calf as soon as possible, they’re so few calves in zoos and the ones that are born just seem to die from EEHV within a few years

 

[Elephantelephant]

I heard rumors on zoochat she could be. The reason I said I hoped she has a calf with a male with much more genetic diversity is because she herself is genetically valuable and it’s critical genetic diversity gets spread throughout the elephant population. However you’re right about her needing to have a calf as soon as possible, they’re so few calves in zoos and the ones that are born just seem to die from EEHV within a few years

One can only hope that the EEHV vaccine will be found as soon as possible and that as few calves as possible will die by then.

 

[John Marchwick]

Omaha's Henry Doorly Zoo welcomes new baby African elephant

I personally thought Claire’s calf was due before Kiki’s but regardless this is HUGE news for the African Elephant Population. one thing I’m really curious to know about this calf is it’s gender but I guess it’ll remain a mystery for now. Looks like though as far as the African Elephant Population and it’s off to a great start! Sadly that’s not the same for Asian Elephant population.

in regards to Callee I heard he’s been breeding with Lolly, Omma and Jayei but it hasn’t been confirmed. Has anyone else heard that same thing as well?

 

[IndianRhino]

in regards to Callee I heard he’s been breeding with Lolly, Omma and Jayei but it hasn’t been confirmed. Has anyone else heard that same thing as well?

I see no reason why he wouldn't be breeding with the other girls since he's a proven breeder now, unless any of them have some sort of medical issue, but let's hope that's not the case.

 

[MidwestFan]

Omaha's Henry Doorly Zoo welcomes new baby African elephant

I personally thought Claire’s calf was due before Kiki’s but regardless this is HUGE news for the African Elephant Population.

Kiki's pregnancy has been a bit of a mystery with her hormone levels being all over the place for the course of her pregnancy. I don't think they had a good way to know exactly when she conceived or how far into her pregnancy she was. I am just so glad to see she delivered a healthy calf despite her levels being kind of crazy!