Slender Lorises, Duct Tape, and Whataburger: A Fish on Dry Land

$12usd seems expensive to me for a zoo this size. It's a small zoo after all. However I do know running a zoo cost quite a few and I don't know how expensive are other similar sized attraction are.
$12 is what I'd expect from a place this size, if not a little more.

Zoo prices vary by zoo and region; I agree it was a little pricey for the size of zoo and collection, but I don't think it was too far from the trendline. In an interesting comparison, Oklahoma City also costs $12, despite having a collection 4 times larger and a land area over 6 times larger; meanwhile, a nearby zoo - which will go unnamed until my review for it debuts - was $30 despite being intermediate in size and collection between those two. I'm not sure exactly how each zoo decides to set its prices; I usually don't think much about it until the total price rises past $25 or so, after which I start doing a cost-benefit analysis of whether it's worth a visit.

As a Chinese myself, I can confirm: We don't have frog legs here (that's French)

That's interesting to hear. I'm not an expert on Chinese cuisine and have never been there myself, but online searches bring up ubiquitous references to frog legs being used there. It may be a regional thing, a delicacy, a declining practice or just rarer than I thought.

Nevertheless, I should clarify that frog legs actually *are* part of the cuisine for parts of the United States also - particularly Louisiana and other places in the South with French influences. In the US they are generally served fried.

no crab rangoon(that's a SE Asia thing?)

Not even :p it's likely an American invention through and through. Even if it was originally derived from an Asian dish, our version is loaded with cream cheese - not exactly a common ingredient in Southeast Asia.

Our egg rolls are not your egg rolls although we do have a lot of spring rolls.

Our American Chinese restaurants usually have both spring rolls and egg rolls.
 
Zoo prices vary by zoo and region; I agree it was a little pricey for the size of zoo and collection, but I don't think it was too far from the trendline. In an interesting comparison, Oklahoma City also costs $12, despite having a collection 4 times larger and a land area over 6 times larger; meanwhile, a nearby zoo - which will go unnamed until my review for it debuts - was $30 despite being intermediate in size and collection between those two. I'm not sure exactly how each zoo decides to set its prices; I usually don't think much about it until the total price rises past $25 or so, after which I start doing a cost-benefit analysis of whether it's worth a visit.

I wish any decent zoo here cost $12 to get into - with living in one of the most expensive states and one with an increasing minimum wage, our zoo prices are really starting to getting up there. A few examples:

Turtle Bay Exploration Park - small side and unaccredited, takes about an hour or two; $18
Sequoia Park Zoo - tiny AZA facility, 30-45 minutes; $25, and you pay adult price at age 13!
Sacramento Zoo - small AZA, about 2-2.5 hours; $18-22 (tickets fluctuating depending on day)
Folsom Zoo - tiny unaccredited and low quality, around 30 min; $7 for ages 2 and up.
San Francisco Zoo - relatively large AZA, around 4 hours; $25 plus $13 for parking, again paying adult price at 13.
Fresno Chaffee Zoo - relatively large AZA around 4-5 hours, $15, and adult price at 13.
Monterey Bay Aquarium - medium AZA aquarium, 2.5- 4 hours depending on how into fish you are; $50 but 18+, 17 and under $35. Plus parking of $12 unless you're lucky or walk a long way.
LA Zoo - large AZA, 5+ hours; $22, adult at 13.
San Diego Zoo - large AZA, all day; $62, adult at 13.

Starts making zoo visits kind of expensive by the time you factor in travel and food and whatnot. Though Fresno Chaffee being second cheapest at $15 certainly surprised me, given their relatively large size and ongoing upgrades and expansion.
 
It would be interesting to do a breakdown of how admission cost correlates with another metric like collection size; that way we could see what zoos are decidedly far from the average in one direction or another. A side project for a rainy day, perhaps?
 
It would be interesting to do a breakdown of how admission cost correlates with another metric like collection size; that way we could see what zoos are decidedly far from the average in one direction or another. A side project for a rainy day, perhaps?

I agree that could be a very interesting breakdown. That's something I could do fairly easily for a lot of CA zoos at least, and probably OR and WA too. Might take a crack at that if people are interested. In a new thread so not to derail this one obviously.
 
San Diego Zoo - large AZA, all day; $62, adult at 13
That price has blown my sock off, and I wasn't even wearing any in the first place :eek:

In comparison, a ticket to Chester Zoo will set you back around £25 ($34) and a ticket to ZSL up to £35 ($47)... These are seen as the biggest hitters in the UK (Mostly because the latter is in our capital city, less so the collection in the opinion of most zoo nerds... even if I quite like it).

$12 is what I'd expect from a place this size, if not a little more.

$12 seems VERY cheap for a zoo of it's size, and equates to around £8.90 in the UK... and I'm telling you now, you wouldn't get into a zoo of a similar standard for that amount of money over here. That price range ($12/£8.90) is restricted to small zoos (our definition of a "small zoo" is much smaller than what you guys would consider small), sanctuaries/rescue centres and farm parks.

I'd say that most zoos in the UK, no matter the size, have a much smaller and more uniform price range of £12-£22 ($15-30).

Sorry if this is going too off topic @Coelacanth18, I just thought the trans-Atlantic comparison might be interesting for some :)
 
Oops seems like i underestimate the price of zoo out there. I guess it makes sense that Asian zoo are much cheaper.
 
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In comparison, a ticket to Chester Zoo will set you back around £25 ($34) and a ticket to ZSL up to £35 ($47)... These are seen as the biggest hitters in the UK (Mostly because the latter is in our capital city, less so the collection in the opinion of most zoo nerds... even if I quite like it).

London isn't what it was but it's still a perfectly good zoo that you'd expect to be at the upper end of UK entrance fees. But I'd struggle to think that many people would think it was objectively worth £10 a head more than Chester. If people are paying it though, hard to blame them.

$62 sounds more like a crowd-control price than anything..!
 
London isn't what it was but it's still a perfectly good zoo that you'd expect to be at the upper end of UK entrance fees. But I'd struggle to think that many people would think it was objectively worth £10 a head more than Chester. If people are paying it though, hard to blame them.

Yes, although it it located in a fairly expensive area of London, while Chester is in a far more rural area. But yes, on the face of it, Chester is far better value for money. Either way, most regulars get a membership and end up paying about 10-15 quid a visit depending on how many times one does so.

$62 sounds more like a crowd-control price than anything..!

I think SDZ also just assumes that visitors having come to the zoo in the first place will pay the price whatever it is, essentially since it is billed as the best in the world...
 
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London isn't what it was but it's still a perfectly good zoo that you'd expect to be at the upper end of UK entrance fees.

Oh, I agree! I may not made that clear enough in my post :)
 
Yes, although it it located in a fairly expensive area of London, while Chester is in a far more rural area. But yes, on the face of it, Chester is far better value for money. Either way, most regulars get a membership and end up paying about 10-15 quid a visit depending on how many times one does so.

That was my point - the cost gap is a London premium, not added value. :)
 
Sorry if this is going too off topic @Coelacanth18, I just thought the trans-Atlantic comparison might be interesting for some

Oh, no worries; as long as it's not taking up multiple pages, a little bit of side discussion is great in my opinion. Keeps people engaged with the thread even more :)


Chapter 7 (Part II): Charting the Uncharted: A First Glimpse at Two Appalachian Zoo Outposts [Mill Mtn]

Several hours north of the small South Carolina zoo, another zoological outpost stands atop a mountain overlooking the small Appalachian city of Roanoke, Virginia. Greenville Zoo might be small, but when it comes to zoos there’s two kinds of small. There’s Greenville Zoo small, where it only takes an hour or so to casually stroll the grounds... and then there’s Mill Mountain Zoo small, where you don’t need a map because standing in the right spot lets you see close to every enclosure in the whole zoo. I can’t remember what the acreage was listed at, but it *definitely* was including service and off-display areas at least. Mill Mountain is one of the smallest zoos both in physical size and in collection I’ve ever been to, being close in size to the tiny Charles Paddock and Micke Grove zoos in California. Despite this, it had a few surprises up its sleeve...

Mill Mountain Zoo

Location: Roanoke, Virginia
Size: ~2.5 acres*
Species Count: 37
Closed Areas: Walk-through Aviary (seasonal); path down to Red Wolves & Screech Owl
Noteworthy Finds: Eurasian Lynx, Pallas’s Cat, Indian Crested Porcupine
Price: $7 admission
Recommended Time: 1 hour or less

Species List: Mill Mountain Zoo Species List - Dec 2021
Media Gallery: Mill Mountain Zoo - ZooChat

[*Note for those interested: I use an online Google Maps area calculator tool created by Daft Logic to estimate the acreage of the areas taken up by enclosures and visitor areas; these numbers should give fairly accurate ideas of how large the zoo is for a visitor, even though it may not be how large the zoo’s property actually is. This is the link for that tool: Google Maps Area Calculator Tool ]

Unlike all of my previous zoo visits thus far – which featured relatively fantastic weather, even into December – it was lightly drizzling when I arrived on the slopes of Mill Mountain and would continue to rain on and off during my hour or so visiting. After stretching my legs in the parking lot, I surveyed my path to the zoo. In a bit of an odd situation, the parking lot used for the zoo is not actually where the entrance to the zoo is located; it’s a 2-minute walk past the park’s visitor center, with the entrance just past the point of visibility around a curve.

full


After a cheap $7 ticket, I took survey of the map and the zoo standing before me. It’s a different vibe from Greenville; while the former had the construction and design of a larger zoo shrunk down, Mill Mountain reminds me more of other small off-the-beaten facilities I’ve visited; lots of DIY-looking enclosures make up the fairly dense infrastructure of the roughly 2.5 acre place. The setting of the zoo is of interest: located on the edge of a densely forested mountain, it’s surrounded on one side by a wall of nature and on the other side by a steep drop. These features gives the small collection a feeling of being sort of a zoo island in the sky; Pileated Woodpeckers stood guard on the perimeter, and an observation deck by the sandhill crane offered a fantastic view of the bustling city far below.

full

full


One thing I will say about this zoo is that it’s not a cold or bad-weather zoo; I only saw 20 of the 37 species signed, with nearly all of the zoo’s avian collection housed elsewhere for the winter and several other animals hiding from the rain and cool weather in their heated dens. Hopefully I’ll get the chance to come back and experience this place in its primer warm seasons; for now however, the photos I’ve taken will give people an idea of what the place generally looks like and has to offer.

full

full


The entrance building has two exhibits attached to it: a small grassy yard for Tufted Deer (unseen) and a tiny circular dirt enclosure for Sulcata Tortoise (off-exhibit). Nearby cages hold Virginia Opossum (unseen) and White-crested Laughingthrush (off-exhibit), with a hard-to-notice path winding down past the laughingthrush cage to a small dead-end cove at the zoo train station. Here a Barn Owl shared its wood-and-wire cage with an Eastern Gray Squirrel that I doubt had been invited in.

On the other side of the laughingthrushes is a small domestic barn and dusty, rocky yard the goats and pigs share; the tiny pig outside squealed with delight at the sight of me and immediately come toddling over for snacks.

full

full


The cage seen on the other side of the domestic yard was home to a Pallas’s Cat, an animal that always looks to me like it’s perpetually pissed off. A Sandhill Crane yard was situated below it next to the observation deck... and on the other side of that is a surprise marquee animal:

full


Unperturbed by the weather – balmy by the standards of its native habitat, no doubt – the beautiful snow leopard dozed out in the open of its small mesh exhibit. It reminded me of the Micke Grove Zoo, which also has a lone snow leopard as its biggest draw. Opposite the snow leopard was a wood-and-wire cage for other crowd favorite Red Panda, while a nearby building has viewing windows for two indoor exhibits holding Asian Small-clawed Otters and an Indian Crested Porcupine. Across from this is the zoo’s seasonal walk-through aviary; signed for nearly a dozen species during the warmer months, the December drizzle was braved only by a pair of Red-billed Blue Magpies and a flock of unsigned Wood Ducks the zoo apparently acquired only a week before my arrival. Just past this was a North American rarity and a lifer for me – a Eurasian Lynx, rubbing on scents left for them and casually eating meatballs strewn about the enclosure.

full

full

full


At the back of the zoo was a yard for Red Wolves and a cage for Eastern Screech Owl, neither of which I saw; the path to them was blocked off for maintenance (fortunately there is another Red Wolf yard along the perimeter of the zoo – it’s impossible to get a good look at the exhibit, but I was able to see the wolves through the fence just fine). Just past that was an exhibit for a pair of Bald Eagles and a large grassy yard for American Black Bear – dozing the winter away unseen in a warm den. Should I have been a bear? Some days sleeping through months when snow happens seems like a better idea than what us humans do.

full


By the time I rounded back over to a couple exhibits for Red Foxes and Northern Raccoons, the rain had started coming down in earnest; fortunately, the last part of the zoo was the “House of Scales and Tails” – in layman’s terms, the reptile house. It certainly looked like an actual house, though I haven’t seen many with this particular color scheme:

full


I donned my mask to enter the tiny building, only to find that I was the only one in there (during my entire hour-plus visit I only saw maybe 5 or 6 visitors). That was a good thing too; forget about social distancing, two people could scarcely pass each other in the hallway without playing a game of Twister. The single tiny hallway was home to a grand total of 6 reptile species – unsigned Veiled Chameleon, Eastern Box Turtle, Yellow-spotted Amazon River Turtle, Burmese Python, Tentacled Snake, and unsigned Boa Constrictor. The interior certainly looked like a small home with herps stashed in it, with the Christmas lights and decorations adding to the small-zoo-on-the-block aesthetic.

full

full


Other than a small glass-fronted exhibit outside for a single Wood Turtle, the small yellow reptile house concluded my tour of Mill Mountain. Perhaps it’s inevitable that such a small off-the-path zoo will remain a minor blip on the zoological landscape – but every blip deserves its 15 minutes of fame and a permanent collection in the photo gallery. It’s also not too far off I-81, so it’s worth a visit if you’re ever traveling up or down the Appalachians. Consider coming not in winter and checking the weather though!

Next review will come up either tomorrow or Thursday. Fast food review will be up in a couple hours as it needs editing and I have to rush out for an appointment now.
 
Oh, no worries; as long as it's not taking up multiple pages, a little bit of side discussion is great in my opinion. Keeps people engaged with the thread even more :)


Chapter 7 (Part II): Charting the Uncharted: A First Glimpse at Two Appalachian Zoo Outposts [Mill Mtn]

Several hours north of the small South Carolina zoo, another zoological outpost stands atop a mountain overlooking the small Appalachian city of Roanoke, Virginia. Greenville Zoo might be small, but when it comes to zoos there’s two kinds of small. There’s Greenville Zoo small, where it only takes an hour or so to casually stroll the grounds... and then there’s Mill Mountain Zoo small, where you don’t need a map because standing in the right spot lets you see close to every enclosure in the whole zoo. I can’t remember what the acreage was listed at, but it *definitely* was including service and off-display areas at least. Mill Mountain is one of the smallest zoos both in physical size and in collection I’ve ever been to, being close in size to the tiny Charles Paddock and Micke Grove zoos in California. Despite this, it had a few surprises up its sleeve...

Mill Mountain Zoo

Location: Roanoke, Virginia
Size: ~2.5 acres*
Species Count: 37
Closed Areas: Walk-through Aviary (seasonal); path down to Red Wolves & Screech Owl
Noteworthy Finds: Eurasian Lynx, Pallas’s Cat, Indian Crested Porcupine
Price: $7 admission
Recommended Time: 1 hour or less

Species List: Mill Mountain Zoo Species List - Dec 2021
Media Gallery: Mill Mountain Zoo - ZooChat

[*Note for those interested: I use an online Google Maps area calculator tool created by Daft Logic to estimate the acreage of the areas taken up by enclosures and visitor areas; these numbers should give fairly accurate ideas of how large the zoo is for a visitor, even though it may not be how large the zoo’s property actually is. This is the link for that tool: Google Maps Area Calculator Tool ]

Unlike all of my previous zoo visits thus far – which featured relatively fantastic weather, even into December – it was lightly drizzling when I arrived on the slopes of Mill Mountain and would continue to rain on and off during my hour or so visiting. After stretching my legs in the parking lot, I surveyed my path to the zoo. In a bit of an odd situation, the parking lot used for the zoo is not actually where the entrance to the zoo is located; it’s a 2-minute walk past the park’s visitor center, with the entrance just past the point of visibility around a curve.

full


After a cheap $7 ticket, I took survey of the map and the zoo standing before me. It’s a different vibe from Greenville; while the former had the construction and design of a larger zoo shrunk down, Mill Mountain reminds me more of other small off-the-beaten facilities I’ve visited; lots of DIY-looking enclosures make up the fairly dense infrastructure of the roughly 2.5 acre place. The setting of the zoo is of interest: located on the edge of a densely forested mountain, it’s surrounded on one side by a wall of nature and on the other side by a steep drop. These features gives the small collection a feeling of being sort of a zoo island in the sky; Pileated Woodpeckers stood guard on the perimeter, and an observation deck by the sandhill crane offered a fantastic view of the bustling city far below.

full

full


One thing I will say about this zoo is that it’s not a cold or bad-weather zoo; I only saw 20 of the 37 species signed, with nearly all of the zoo’s avian collection housed elsewhere for the winter and several other animals hiding from the rain and cool weather in their heated dens. Hopefully I’ll get the chance to come back and experience this place in its primer warm seasons; for now however, the photos I’ve taken will give people an idea of what the place generally looks like and has to offer.

full

full


The entrance building has two exhibits attached to it: a small grassy yard for Tufted Deer (unseen) and a tiny circular dirt enclosure for Sulcata Tortoise (off-exhibit). Nearby cages hold Virginia Opossum (unseen) and White-crested Laughingthrush (off-exhibit), with a hard-to-notice path winding down past the laughingthrush cage to a small dead-end cove at the zoo train station. Here a Barn Owl shared its wood-and-wire cage with an Eastern Gray Squirrel that I doubt had been invited in.

On the other side of the laughingthrushes is a small domestic barn and dusty, rocky yard the goats and pigs share; the tiny pig outside squealed with delight at the sight of me and immediately come toddling over for snacks.

full

full


The cage seen on the other side of the domestic yard was home to a Pallas’s Cat, an animal that always looks to me like it’s perpetually pissed off. A Sandhill Crane yard was situated below it next to the observation deck... and on the other side of that is a surprise marquee animal:

full


Unperturbed by the weather – balmy by the standards of its native habitat, no doubt – the beautiful snow leopard dozed out in the open of its small mesh exhibit. It reminded me of the Micke Grove Zoo, which also has a lone snow leopard as its biggest draw. Opposite the snow leopard was a wood-and-wire cage for other crowd favorite Red Panda, while a nearby building has viewing windows for two indoor exhibits holding Asian Small-clawed Otters and an Indian Crested Porcupine. Across from this is the zoo’s seasonal walk-through aviary; signed for nearly a dozen species during the warmer months, the December drizzle was braved only by a pair of Red-billed Blue Magpies and a flock of unsigned Wood Ducks the zoo apparently acquired only a week before my arrival. Just past this was a North American rarity and a lifer for me – a Eurasian Lynx, rubbing on scents left for them and casually eating meatballs strewn about the enclosure.

full

full

full


At the back of the zoo was a yard for Red Wolves and a cage for Eastern Screech Owl, neither of which I saw; the path to them was blocked off for maintenance (fortunately there is another Red Wolf yard along the perimeter of the zoo – it’s impossible to get a good look at the exhibit, but I was able to see the wolves through the fence just fine). Just past that was an exhibit for a pair of Bald Eagles and a large grassy yard for American Black Bear – dozing the winter away unseen in a warm den. Should I have been a bear? Some days sleeping through months when snow happens seems like a better idea than what us humans do.

full


By the time I rounded back over to a couple exhibits for Red Foxes and Northern Raccoons, the rain had started coming down in earnest; fortunately, the last part of the zoo was the “House of Scales and Tails” – in layman’s terms, the reptile house. It certainly looked like an actual house, though I haven’t seen many with this particular color scheme:

full


I donned my mask to enter the tiny building, only to find that I was the only one in there (during my entire hour-plus visit I only saw maybe 5 or 6 visitors). That was a good thing too; forget about social distancing, two people could scarcely pass each other in the hallway without playing a game of Twister. The single tiny hallway was home to a grand total of 6 reptile species – unsigned Veiled Chameleon, Eastern Box Turtle, Yellow-spotted Amazon River Turtle, Burmese Python, Tentacled Snake, and unsigned Boa Constrictor. The interior certainly looked like a small home with herps stashed in it, with the Christmas lights and decorations adding to the small-zoo-on-the-block aesthetic.

full

full


Other than a small glass-fronted exhibit outside for a single Wood Turtle, the small yellow reptile house concluded my tour of Mill Mountain. Perhaps it’s inevitable that such a small off-the-path zoo will remain a minor blip on the zoological landscape – but every blip deserves its 15 minutes of fame and a permanent collection in the photo gallery. It’s also not too far off I-81, so it’s worth a visit if you’re ever traveling up or down the Appalachians. Consider coming not in winter and checking the weather though!

Next review will come up either tomorrow or Thursday. Fast food review will be up in a couple hours as it needs editing and I have to rush out for an appointment now.
Pallas's Cat is an interesting species for a tiny non-AZA zoo. I wonder how they obtained it? A few other surprises too - Indian Crested Porcupine and Tentacled Snake aren't something you see every day. It sounds like a nice little place.
 
I particularly enjoy reading reviews of "minor blips on the zoological landscapes" and in many ways I understand the appeal of road trip threads (mine and others!). There is something delightful in learning what a zoo nerd thinks of Berlin or Burgers, but I think that it is even more exciting reading about Greenville and Mill Mountain. Keep the reviews coming!

I do think that @Coelacanth18 is going a little easy on some of the exhibits at these small zoos. ;) Mill Mountain's enclosures for red fox, raccoon, otter and lynx are way too tiny, plus the red panda and snow leopard exhibits aren't very large either. Many of those cages aren't that out of place for a North American roadside menagerie, but none of them would likely be seen in a western European nation. Having said that, there is a sort of unique joy in visiting out-of-the-way zoos that very few others know about.
 
Pallas's Cat is an interesting species for a tiny non-AZA zoo. I wonder how they obtained it?

The zoo was accredited by AZA up until 2016 (lost it due to financial issues). It's common for zoos to keep a lot of their program animals after losing accreditation and continue to participate in the breeding programs.

A few other surprises too - Indian Crested Porcupine and Tentacled Snake aren't something you see every day.

I think Indian Crested Porcupine is rare largely because most zoos switched to a dedicated program for African Crested - prior to that, I believe a random mix of different Hystrix species were around in varying numbers.

I had someone else tell me they thought Tentacled Snake was fairly rare, but in terms of overall numbers it actually isn't. Not to tease it too much - it's still very much a WIP currently - but I've been working on a general survey of reptile and amphibian species kept in the United States. Tentacled Snake is one of the more common species that comes up, with over 25 listings (and the survey is not comprehensive, just a large sample size).

I do think that @Coelacanth18 is going a little easy on some of the exhibits at these small zoos. ;) Mill Mountain's enclosures for red fox, raccoon, otter and lynx are way too tiny, plus the red panda and snow leopard exhibits aren't very large either. Many of those cages aren't that out of place for a North American roadside menagerie, but none of them would likely be seen in a western European nation.

Different review styles, mostly; your interest in enclosure design is stronger than mine, while I tend to focus more on the animal collection and other aspects of layout and presentation. I agree that some of the exhibits are not with the times, and the zoo has made a statement to that effect as well: ...AND NOW THE REST OF THE STORY! | Mill Mountain Zoo

Quote:
The current infrastructure of the zoo is aged and in need of significant updating to reflect more modern animal enclosures and facility amenities. The improvements needed will require a substantial public-private investment.

The financial situation of the zoo is the primary factor in whether any changes are made, presumably. The zoo was noted by the accreditation board as having a high standard of care, which I have little reason to doubt. It's possible that the enclosures may be more of an issue from an optics perspective than a husbandry one - people get a bad taste in their mouth seeing ugly cages and small quarters. That being said, enclosure upgrades would likely be a positive development for the animals too.
 
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