Where are all the caprines?

Fallax

Fallax

Well-Known Member
5+ year member
This was something I noticed a while ago but didn't bother making a thread about until now. Why is there such a lack of caprines kept in UK zoos?

Just a glance at zootierliste shows that compared to most other zoo-heavy countries in Europe the UK is seriously lacking in caprine variety with most zoos not having any species at all (not counting domestics) and the few that do only having one or two. The only real outlier is Highland Wildlife Park which has a pretty nice collection of caprines.

I'm wondering why this group is so underrepresented here? Is it just simple lack of interest? In my opinion it is rather a shame as I am quite fond of this group.
 
It could just be lack of interest. When most people think of caprinidae, they think of your standard sheep that you see in fields. Depending on where in the UK you live, you'll either see sheep every day or pretty often unless you live in a big city, so perhaps caprinidae just aren't something that everyone wants to see. Plenty of petting zoo/farm type zoos do keep domestic sheep and goat breeds, but I agree that I wouldn't mind seeing more wild ones like ibex appear in UK zoos.
 
But when we talk about lack of interest whose interest are we talking about? And how is that interest measured or defined?
 
Mayki said:
The only real outlier is Highland Wildlife Park which has a pretty nice collection of caprines.
Click to expand...

And even then, significantly reduced in the last decade!

Out of curiosity, I thought I'd work out just how things fall out as regards non-domestic caprine species in UK collections, and things are actually even worse than I realised:

Chinese Goral - 1 collection (Edinburgh)
Barbary Sheep - 4 collections (Dudley, West Mids, Five Sisters, Suffolk)
Himalayan Tahr - 1 collection (HWP)
Mishmi Takin - 3 collections (HWP, Paignton, Port Lympne)
Tajik Markhor - 1 collection (HWP)

No ibex (barring the markhor), no chamois, and no true wild sheep....
 
I've been to two zoos with impressive collections of caprines: Paris Jardin des Plantes and Berlin Tierpark.

According to Zootierliste, these zoos currently have:

Paris: Chinese goral, Himalayan blue sheep, West Caucasian tur, rocky mountain goat, Sichuan takin, Tajik markhor and Transcaspian urial

Berlin: Barren ground musk ox, Central Chinese goral, Himalayan blue sheep, Marco Polo sheep, Mishmi takin, northern blue sheep, rocky mountain goat, Shensi takin, Sichuan takin, Tajik markhor and Transcaspian urial
 
TeaLovingDave said:
And even then, significantly reduced in the last decade!

Out of curiosity, I thought I'd work out just how things fall out as regards non-domestic caprine species in UK collections, and things are actually even worse than I realised:

Chinese Goral - 1 collection (Edinburgh)
Barbary Sheep - 4 collections (Dudley, West Mids, Five Sisters, Suffolk)
Himalayan Tahr - 1 collection (HWP)
Mishmi Takin - 3 collections (HWP, Paignton, Port Lympne)
Tajik Markhor - 1 collection (HWP)

No ibex (barring the markhor), no chamois, and no true wild sheep....
Click to expand...
Do somewhere like HWP don't have musk ox? Seems like a good place to have them.
 
aardvark250 said:
Do somewhere like HWP don't have musk ox? Seems like a good place to have them.
Click to expand...

Whipsnade held Musk Ox in the recent past, neighbouring the European bison paddock. The footprint of the paddock is still there, if you know what to look for. I can’t recall when the last individual died. Early 2000s?
 
Panthera1981 said:
Whipsnade held Musk Ox in the recent past, neighbouring the European bison paddock. The footprint of the paddock is still there, if you know what to look for. I can’t recall when the last individual died. Early 2000s?
Click to expand...
They even bred them. I suspect there are parasite issues on grass, especially at low altitudes.
Certainly the Jardin des Plantes Calrid collection is impressive. All on hard standing, which minimises parasite load.
 
Panthera1981 said:
Whipsnade held Musk Ox in the recent past, neighbouring the European bison paddock. The footprint of the paddock is still there, if you know what to look for. I can’t recall when the last individual died. Early 2000s?
Click to expand...
I believe it was the paddock where the single Grevy zebra male currently lives.
 
TeaLovingDave said:
Barbary Sheep - 4 collections (Dudley, West Mids, Five Sisters, Suffolk)
.
Click to expand...

West Mids do still have them but reduced in number from a few years ago. I think I only saw about three on my visit last year. I'm wondering if that mixed exhibit with the remaining Persian Fallow deer(just three females now) is going to be discontinued?
 
Last edited:
Barbary Sheep went out of fashion a few years ago in U.K. zoos, as the zoo population could not be assigned to any one subspecies. So, rather than having plenty of generic (but still magnificent) Barbary to look at, we now have very few at all. Progress?
 
FBBird said:
Barbary Sheep went out of fashion a few years ago in U.K. zoos, as the zoo population could not be assigned to any one subspecies. So, rather than having plenty of generic (but still magnificent) Barbary to look at, we now have very few at all. Progress?
Click to expand...
I really miss Barbary Sheep at Paignton. They also work really well in mixed exhibits. I’ve seen really good Barbary sheep exhibits in Middle East collections (Bahrain & Kuwait specifically), where the herds are huge. For a number of years, Paignton kept their B Sheep in the old Giraffe House & paddock (now for Giant Tortoise). It worked well, especially with the back drop of Baboon Rock, which itself would make a wonderful Sheep exhibit!
 
OstrichMania said:
I still personally believe that I'd prefer to see some species of caprine in that enclosure than the baboons.
Click to expand...
The baboons were supposed to move to a new enclosure 'x' years ago, but nothing came of the plan. I really miss the West Caucasian turs in the quarry enclosure. It was perfect for them and the remnants of the Barbary sheep herd that shared with them. The Mishmi takin are interesting enough, but I don't feel they do the quarry justice.
 
I was thinking that Jardin Des Plantes and especially Tierpark Berlin are doing great, when it comes to Caprinae. Until I visited Tallinn... Next to the impressive collection, they have astonishing herds and breading groups of many of the spieces. Some bachelor groups , like Bharals, Transcaspian Urials and Dagestan Tur are mind-blowing.
 
FBBird said:
Barbary Sheep went out of fashion a few years ago in U.K. zoos, as the zoo population could not be assigned to any one subspecies. So, rather than having plenty of generic (but still magnificent) Barbary to look at, we now have very few at all. Progress?
Click to expand...

Irony is, last I heard it seems like the "generic" population *is* probably able to be pinned down to a subspecies, though I don't recall which offhand.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top