San Diego Zoo How would you improve San Diego Zoo?
- Thread starter koala7
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First off, all of Center Street apart from the Sun Bear Trail has to go. Those corncrib monkey cages and bear grottoes are a disgrace. Personally, I'd like to see pretty much that entire section of the zoo including Urban Jungle and Outback bulldozed in favor of better exhibits. The Koala complex is fine, but I dislike most of the rest of the Outback as I remember the wombat and devil enclosures being too small and the aviaries being shaped bizarrely which angled the mesh to the point to where I had trouble actually seeing into them properly.
I'd say the zoo also needs to phase-out their Polar Bears and perhaps move their Grizzlies to that enclosure since they're better suited for the climate. About half of the zoo's ungulate enclosures need work as well. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing the zoo dedicate space to three or four properly sized and furnished African hoofstock yards even if it meant slightly less species.
Finally, having just looked at the recently uploaded photos of the reptile house, I'd say the zoo could do with sprucing up the indoor herp enclosures as well. While the house does have its charm and the outdoor enclosures all range from good to great, most of the indoor terrariums are simply far too small. I'd love to see a zoo of this caliber dedicate itself to a LAIR, MOLA, or SSS level reptile house. Collection-wise, I'd also like to see them dedicate themselves to more endangered herps and actual breeding programs as opposed to the hodgepodge collection of random species from all over approach they seem to have currently.
~Thylo
I'd say the zoo also needs to phase-out their Polar Bears and perhaps move their Grizzlies to that enclosure since they're better suited for the climate. About half of the zoo's ungulate enclosures need work as well. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing the zoo dedicate space to three or four properly sized and furnished African hoofstock yards even if it meant slightly less species.
Finally, having just looked at the recently uploaded photos of the reptile house, I'd say the zoo could do with sprucing up the indoor herp enclosures as well. While the house does have its charm and the outdoor enclosures all range from good to great, most of the indoor terrariums are simply far too small. I'd love to see a zoo of this caliber dedicate itself to a LAIR, MOLA, or SSS level reptile house. Collection-wise, I'd also like to see them dedicate themselves to more endangered herps and actual breeding programs as opposed to the hodgepodge collection of random species from all over approach they seem to have currently.
~Thylo
Well since you insist...Just really interested to see what ideas you have here.
I had an idea a few weeks ago regarding what San Diego could do next now that the Wildlife Explorers Basecamp is nearly complete. Urban Jungle, Bear Canyon and Sun Bear Forest all need to go and are conveniently situated adjacent to one another. Demolish them all and that's a six acre slice of land to create something excellent. My idea involves creating an Africa Rocks-style Asian complex on this site. By that I mean creating a complex that goes through several themed areas based on different Asian environments in the same way Africa Rocks does for, well, African environments. They could very easily stick with the name "Asian Passage" like they did with Africa Rocks when they rebranded that whole part of the zoo about a decade ago. As Africa Rocks has Cape Fynbos, Madagascar, Acacia Woodlands, Ethiopian Highlands, etc. there are a variety of Asian environments that could be done. It would also nicely tie in with the nearby Owen's aviary and the orangutan/siamang exhibits. Some examples of areas that could included...
Mangrove Forests: Proboscis Monkey, Crab-eating Macaque, Fishing Cat, various fish, etc.
China: Giant Panda, Red Panda, Golden Takin, Mang Mountain Pit Viper, Golden Stub-nosed Monkey, White-naped Crane, etc.
Southeastern Islands: Clouded Leopard, Binturong, Pygmy Slow Lorris, Rhinoceros Hornbill, etc.
Indian Grasslands: Indian Rhino, Javan Banteng, Sloth Bear, Dhole, Striped Hyena, etc.
I fully realize some of these species are totally unrealistic, but you get the idea of what I'm going for here and the possibilities are really endless. A New Guinea are would also be cool, but I worry that overlap with the tree kangaroo and cassowary area at the Safari Park.
I suppose it doesn't "need to go" exactly, but considering the ever-worsening state of the sun bear SSP it likely won't be a sustainable concept in the future. The primate exhibits are still really good, but the sun bear exhibit has seen better days and is mostly concrete at this point. Perhaps it could maintained and integrated into a new Asian area like how the Kopje was integrated into Africa Rocks, with some modifications to the primary bear exhibit. Just throwing out ideas.
Yes the sun bear exhibit itself has very limited life left but the rest is beautiful. If they knocked it down they would have to remove my name from the donor plaques! I specifically donated for a stand-alone lion-tailed macaque exhibit to be located next to the Wgasa Bushline Monorail at the Park, but that plan was delayed and then eventually folded in to the Sun Bear Forest plan at the zoo.
Without diving into the overhaul of Urban Jungle and the Bear grottos as many have, I’d like to see a revamp of the Northern frontier area. Perhaps a name change would be necessary unless they want to stick to it as part of the theming. For the remaining hoofstock, having some moved to Urban Jungle if it were to be repurposed as a mini Savanna area since giraffes and Soemmering’s gazelle already live there. As it may pain some of us, the habitats of that area can be mostly netted as opposed to moats since there isn’t much real estate SDZ can expand on without eating up some of their recent projects or Polar Bear Plunge. Some species they can place there would be grizzlies, bison, sea otters, and seals or sea lions as well. I’m not too keen on the history of SD but it’s weird to me that they don’t have any sort of seal or sea lion habitat especially with their ever increasing popularity. Other North American animals can be added but those are some key ones that come to mind which they happen to have and/or can display which they may or may have not done so before
Without diving into the overhaul of Urban Jungle and the Bear grottos as many have, I’d like to see a revamp of the Northern frontier area. Perhaps a name change would be necessary unless they want to stick to it as part of the theming. For the remaining hoofstock, having some moved to Urban Jungle if it were to be repurposed as a mini Savanna area since giraffes and Soemmering’s gazelle already live there. As it may pain some of us, the habitats of that area can be mostly netted as opposed to moats since there isn’t much real estate SDZ can expand on without eating up some of their recent projects or Polar Bear Plunge. Some species they can place there would be grizzlies, bison, sea otters, and seals or sea lions as well. I’m not too keen on the history of SD but it’s weird to me that they don’t have any sort of seal or sea lion habitat especially with their ever increasing popularity. Other North American animals can be added but those are some key ones that come to mind which they happen to have and/or can display which they may or may have not done so before
I would certainly agree here as there’s not necessarily any reason to demolish and replace Sun Bear Forest at the moment.
I’d imagine they’d keep the name ‘Northern Frontier’ as it would still fit the precinct and is already well known amongst regulars.
A precinct featuring animals native to California now would work well. Main species could include, Californian Sea Lions, Mountain Lion, Californian Condor, Sea Otter, Black Bear ect. This would work especially well as it could be a follow on from the elephant odyssey, which would allow guests to see a comparison of species in California then, compared to now. Polar Bear Passage could also serve as an extension to this.
I have visited a few times San Diego zoo during a short stay in Southern California. From my European zoonerd point of view, I very much envy the richness of gazelle species maintained in AZA zoos and with its dry climate, San Diego have perfect conditions to house them.
I would suggest that the current Urban Jungle and koala exhibit is revamped for an area based on Horn of Africa in the immediate continuity of Africa Rocks and hamadryas enclosure and kopje.
The area could be used to house a couple of lions in a better exhibit that the one from EO, maybe with a view on the canyon behind to create a scenic background and providing an endless perspective and stuff to look at for the lions.
This area could also house other jewels such as gerenuk, Soemmering gazelle with girafe (even if reticulated would be better suited than masaï), or maybe even/also Eastern black rhino. Speke's gazelle and lesser kudu should be also part of the stocking and having one or two extra Grevy's zebra stallion should be doable as well. I will not extend smaller species but I find always nice to have some kind of alternance between large and smaller species.
I struggle to measure how much space Urban Jungle would have to offer, maybe not enough for everything I mentionned but as much gazelles as possible need to go there !
The Bear and Cat canyon beginning should then be used to rehouse koalas and then continue with a South-East Asian theme. Enclosures for Malayan tigers, Malayan tapir with asian otters (or chevrotain), fishing cats could be created an the footprint of the Sun Bear forest and old grottoes. I do not remember well what other species are exhibited in the Tiger trail but I remind this part appeared outdated to me. Sun bears have no future in AZA so once they die, no need to replace them. On the contrary, the current monkey's exhibits that appear to be well suited should be kept. However, I am unsure of what monkey specie would be the best fit.
If I recall well, the meeting point of center street and Africa rocks trail used to have also large hornbills aviaries. I love these birds and I would be excited if SDZ choose to put some efforts in breeding them. With the unmodified orang-utan enclosure and Owens Aviary, that would have the potential to create one of the nicest Asian area in a zoo.
The Tiger trail being emptied of its Asian inhabitants, it could be used to extend the tropical African theme. One idea would be to create a newer ape facility in the canyon. I know this may be the less consensual of my suggestions but I found the ape exhibits okay but nothing extraordinary by today's standards. I have really no idea of how that would be feasible but imagine a large aviary full of vegetation with the group of bonobos being wtached by visitors at several meters height thanks to the natural inclination of the area !
The free bonobo exhibit could still be used, maybe for a gorilla bachelor group with some guenons mixed.
The Northern Frontier definitely need a refresh and polar bears to be phased out. I like the idea of housing grizzly bears instead and focus on local species but the California sea lion and seals addition would be a big mistake in my opinion. You just need to go to la Jolla cove, 15 miles from there, to see wild specimens accepting very close proximity ! (will add my photos from there someday)
Add the fact that pinnipeds are very hard to house properly with space and depth needs that are rarely met in captivity.
SDZ does not have a proper South American area and that is okay. Species are spread between the Children zoo, the Parker aviary, few monkeys in the mainly African Treetops way and several species on small sub-standards exhibits in Elephant Odissey. Maybe that could be another option to replace the Northern Frontier ?
In a more simple version, a large naturalistic enclosure could be created to house Baird's tapir with black-handed spider monkeys where the pelican lagoon currently stands. With the proximity of Ornate Hawk-eagle, and Harpy eagle, a small Central America area could be created. I do not remember how much space there would be left to extend this thematic.
Finally, the ungulates enclosures in front of the Last Frontier look to me like a nice place to do some nice enclosure for spectacled bears. The habitat could be some kind of dry forest (after Chappari Reserve in Peru) rather than the usual paramo or cloud forets habitat that may struggle from the heat up there on the plateau. I am not familiar with other Andean species that could complete this theme but please, let's avoid south-american camelids that are of no conservation interest !
I would suggest that the current Urban Jungle and koala exhibit is revamped for an area based on Horn of Africa in the immediate continuity of Africa Rocks and hamadryas enclosure and kopje.
The area could be used to house a couple of lions in a better exhibit that the one from EO, maybe with a view on the canyon behind to create a scenic background and providing an endless perspective and stuff to look at for the lions.
This area could also house other jewels such as gerenuk, Soemmering gazelle with girafe (even if reticulated would be better suited than masaï), or maybe even/also Eastern black rhino. Speke's gazelle and lesser kudu should be also part of the stocking and having one or two extra Grevy's zebra stallion should be doable as well. I will not extend smaller species but I find always nice to have some kind of alternance between large and smaller species.
I struggle to measure how much space Urban Jungle would have to offer, maybe not enough for everything I mentionned but as much gazelles as possible need to go there !
The Bear and Cat canyon beginning should then be used to rehouse koalas and then continue with a South-East Asian theme. Enclosures for Malayan tigers, Malayan tapir with asian otters (or chevrotain), fishing cats could be created an the footprint of the Sun Bear forest and old grottoes. I do not remember well what other species are exhibited in the Tiger trail but I remind this part appeared outdated to me. Sun bears have no future in AZA so once they die, no need to replace them. On the contrary, the current monkey's exhibits that appear to be well suited should be kept. However, I am unsure of what monkey specie would be the best fit.
If I recall well, the meeting point of center street and Africa rocks trail used to have also large hornbills aviaries. I love these birds and I would be excited if SDZ choose to put some efforts in breeding them. With the unmodified orang-utan enclosure and Owens Aviary, that would have the potential to create one of the nicest Asian area in a zoo.
The Tiger trail being emptied of its Asian inhabitants, it could be used to extend the tropical African theme. One idea would be to create a newer ape facility in the canyon. I know this may be the less consensual of my suggestions but I found the ape exhibits okay but nothing extraordinary by today's standards. I have really no idea of how that would be feasible but imagine a large aviary full of vegetation with the group of bonobos being wtached by visitors at several meters height thanks to the natural inclination of the area !
The free bonobo exhibit could still be used, maybe for a gorilla bachelor group with some guenons mixed.
The Northern Frontier definitely need a refresh and polar bears to be phased out. I like the idea of housing grizzly bears instead and focus on local species but the California sea lion and seals addition would be a big mistake in my opinion. You just need to go to la Jolla cove, 15 miles from there, to see wild specimens accepting very close proximity ! (will add my photos from there someday)
Add the fact that pinnipeds are very hard to house properly with space and depth needs that are rarely met in captivity.
SDZ does not have a proper South American area and that is okay. Species are spread between the Children zoo, the Parker aviary, few monkeys in the mainly African Treetops way and several species on small sub-standards exhibits in Elephant Odissey. Maybe that could be another option to replace the Northern Frontier ?
In a more simple version, a large naturalistic enclosure could be created to house Baird's tapir with black-handed spider monkeys where the pelican lagoon currently stands. With the proximity of Ornate Hawk-eagle, and Harpy eagle, a small Central America area could be created. I do not remember how much space there would be left to extend this thematic.
Finally, the ungulates enclosures in front of the Last Frontier look to me like a nice place to do some nice enclosure for spectacled bears. The habitat could be some kind of dry forest (after Chappari Reserve in Peru) rather than the usual paramo or cloud forets habitat that may struggle from the heat up there on the plateau. I am not familiar with other Andean species that could complete this theme but please, let's avoid south-american camelids that are of no conservation interest !
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I would redesign the 'elephant odyssey' section which did not deliver. Elephants, California condors and pronghorns are valuable animals and should stay, but I would get rid e.g. of the sculptures, bizarre utili-trees and some random common animals. I would not mind part of the zoo had no single theme, rather than poorly executed one.
A second substandard section are Australian animals with small, not naturalistic koala enclosures. The third are polar bears which everybody thinks suffer from the heat and reindeer kept on a steep slope. The fourth are outdated glassed monkey cages. The fifth are non-naturalistic climbing structures for orangutans.
I am sure the zoo has excess possibilities what to put as replacement. I think flat sections should go to hoofstock, while steep slopes to tree-climbing and mountain animals. The zoo has some very good sections for primates, birds and wild cats and could really build up on those.
A second substandard section are Australian animals with small, not naturalistic koala enclosures. The third are polar bears which everybody thinks suffer from the heat and reindeer kept on a steep slope. The fourth are outdated glassed monkey cages. The fifth are non-naturalistic climbing structures for orangutans.
I am sure the zoo has excess possibilities what to put as replacement. I think flat sections should go to hoofstock, while steep slopes to tree-climbing and mountain animals. The zoo has some very good sections for primates, birds and wild cats and could really build up on those.
I disagree with the notion that San Diego should phase out their polar bears. Lately they've been renovating the habitat heavily to add more natural substrates along with amping up their efforts to keep the bears cool. Polar bears are just too iconic a species for the zoo's conservation message to up and leave.
I'd rather they built the Savannah precinct in the current Urban Jungle and Bear Canyon, instead of demolishing the Koala Walkabout, which is fairly new and in no need of replacing. The current Urban Jungle isn't rather large, and I wouldn't throw a whole bunch of species in this area. I owuld only include the hoofstock they already have; Giraffe, Grevy's Zebra, Gerenuk, Greater Kudu, Speke's Gazelle, Eastern Yellow Backed Duiker, alongside maybe some smaller enclosures for Cheetah, Fennec Foxes and Cape Porcupines.
I doubt San Diego would move most of their Asian species out of the Lost Forest. The Sun Bear Forest should be kept as it is; maybe besides a renovation to the Sun Bear enclosure. If the Sun Bears have no future in the AZA they could theoretically be replaced by their Andean Bears.
Once again, I doubt this would occur anytime soon.
The Koala enclosures are giant and despite being a little non naturalistic are some of the best Koala enclosures i've seen.
I'd imagine giving the Orangutans a much better enclosure would be quite high on their improvement list going forward. The Orangutan enclosure has to be one of the lowlights of the entire zoo.
Once their current trio die, I doubt San Diego will attempt to replace them. The enclosure is decent but still could benefit from a large renovation. I'd rather San Diego exhibits Grizzly's here instead of their Polar Bears. The climate just suits them much better.
Are you refiring to the Francois Langur exhibit in Sun Bear Forest? in that case, I'd say the remaining corn-crib cages next to the Bear Grottos are much worse and should be removed as soon as possible!
There was a sea lion pool somewhere in Asian Passage. It held Californian pinnipeds including the rare Guadalupe Fur Seal. In fact, supposedly an early curator of San Diego Zoo was the only person to know where to find their year-long habitat in some sort of hidden cove. I believe there's more of it on their 100 years timeline.
Also, has anyone considered using relatively unused space in the zoo? The hillside behind the panda exhibit is usable and has off-species exhibits on it. Or the large off-exhibit area between EO and Polar Plunge. Even the hill behind the two waterfowl ponds is owned by San Diego and could be used as an extension of Lost Forest.
That's what I was thinking would be useful for Africa Rocks-ifying Asian Passage. Extending the snow leopard exhibits to take advantage of the hill and getting rid of the "modern" elements of the habitat to make it more rustic, being in line with Tiger River or Sun Bear Forest.
The problem here is, as you said, this area is dedicated to off-exhibit housing of off-exhibit species
~Thylo
Well in an ideal situation off exhibit species would go on exhibit freeing up some space for displaced species. As I said there are other off exhibit areas that can hold those species.The problem here is, as you said, this area is dedicated to off-exhibit housing of off-exhibit species
~Thylo
If you got rid of the off-exhibit areas and put those species on-exhibit there would be considerably less space for displaced species, no?
~Thylo