America's 50 Must See Zoos

[nczoofan]

I'm guessing the other one will be Duke, and that isn't truly a zoo, either. AZA doesn't even consider them zoos. By the broadest definitions, sure, but when it comes to what the general person means by "zoo", and what a list like this should be about? No. I imagine both of those facilities would also say they aren't zoos, as well.

Having large yards and good breeding programs doesn't make somewhere "must see", especially given the large amount of options this country has. If something is going to be "must see", it should be accessible to those wanting to see it.

Disney, SW, and SD have a lot more to offer and are places people will spend all day at, without even mentioning rides and non-animal stuff. They also are considerably cheaper. White Oak is 6.5x more expensive than a full price ticket to either of the San Diego parks. I'm not sure there's anyone on here who would pay that much to go to White Oak, frankly.

Dukes tours are 14 bucks though. So not comparable as Duke is much more accessible. Covid has messed up the tours a bit, but before covid I went on a free-educational tour and was able to see most the species and even the nocturnal building. Everyone is able to make a list such as this and to be honest Duke would be on my list, but its accessibility is less in debate as much as what constitutes a “zoo.”

 

[TinoPup]

Dukes tours are 14 bucks though. So not comparable as Duke is much more accessible. Covid has messed up the tours a bit, but before covid I went on a free-educational tour and was able to see most the species and even the nocturnal building. Everyone is able to make a list such as this and to be honest Duke would be on my list, but its accessibility is less in debate as much as what constitutes a “zoo.”

I agree, I wasn't factoring in pricing for that one. They also have things like a gift shop, and an option for a partially self-guided walk around. I'm not sure if I would put it on my own list, given it being reservation only and the caged exhibits being rather poor looking, but it is at least accessible for most people.

 

[Great Argus]

Finally, a controversial pick! I've been surprised how agreed upon every choice has been so far, it's been getting a little boring as far as I’m concerned. In my opinion White Oak definitely deserves to be featured on this list and I fully realize some will disagree which is completely ok. Friendly debate is what makes threads like these so interesting and I'll gladly defend my position.



Just to make it clear, are you suggesting that facilities only open by guided tour should be disqualified? If so, I definitely disagree. Any and all American zoological institutions are eligible to be featured and micromanaging what should be allowed seems counterproductive to creating a list showing the true diversity of American collections. I see no reason why facilities only seen through a reserved tour shouldn't be included, as they all have the potential to be just as "must-see" as any traditional zoo. I'll say now there is one other facility later on this list that is only open by reservation and I will be curious to see if it gets the same amount of pushback as this one.



The pricing is definitely very high, no denying that and I understand that it's not something everyone can afford or be willing to spend. With that said, cost and worth are very subjective factors that are decided on an individual basis. I'm sure there are some who will read this list and won't be willing to spend money to see Disney, SeaWorld, or even the San Diego parks, but that doesn't make them any less "must-see."


In what way? It could just as easily be argued that the California Academy of Sciences or Disney's Animal Kingdom might not count as a zoo for a variety of different reasons. The term zoo is pretty all-encompassing in the context of this thread and I struggle to see how a facility that can be visited by the public and includes elephant, giraffe, rhino, tiger, etc, somehow isn't a zoo.

When choosing what places made the list I didn't just consider if it had a vast collection of rarities or several top-notch exhibits. A big part of the decision making process was if it provided a unique experience, which this one definitely does. The western hemisphere's largest elephant herd, a variety of rare hoofstock, terrific enclosures that use the natural landscape, and the amazing breeding records are all just gravy. I think even those who disagree with it's inclusion can't argue that.

I disagree as well, nice as White Oak may be I don't think it's quite justified making the cut. "a variety of rare hoofstock, terrific enclosures that use the natural landscape, and the amazing breeding records are all just gravy." This really isn't all that different from The Wilds, SDZSP, or even DAK. As far as I know there's nothing at White Oak you can't easily see elsewhere, at your own pace and for cheaper. There's nothing at the place that interests me enough to consider forking over $400, no matter how pretty the place may be.

Which for the record, that $400 guided tour would get you into:

Disney's Animal Kingdom, $109
San Diego Zoo, $60
San Diego Zoo Safari Park, $60
Monterey Bay Aquarium, $50
SeaWorld San Diego, $100 (but frequently on sale)
Los Angeles Zoo, $22

For 1 dollar over 400, that's 6 other "must see" zoos for the price of one. Five of which are among the priciest zoos in the United States. For me, survey says very much not worth it.

 

[TinoPup]

I just double checked my e-mail about their pricing, from November. It's $500, not $400. $100 for each additional person over 5.
The facility most similar to White Oak, in terms of species list, exhibit size and type, breeding record, etc is Fossil Rim. They're $25 for self guided tour, $40 for guided. They have a private tour that's also $500, for up to 10 people.

 

[Great Argus]

I just double checked my e-mail about their pricing, from November. It's $500, not $400. $100 for each additional person over 5.

With this $100 increase in pricing, let's see:

That $500 guided tour would get you into:

Disney's Animal Kingdom, $109
San Diego Zoo, $60
San Diego Zoo Safari Park, $60
Monterey Bay Aquarium, $50
SeaWorld San Diego, $100 (but frequently on sale)
Los Angeles Zoo, $22
St. Augustine Alligator Farm, $29
The Living Desert, $28
Cheyenne Mountain Zoo, $25 (varies by day and time, approx average)
Denver, $15

That's a whopping TEN of the "must see" zoos you could visit for the same price as going to White Oak by yourself. Even if one or two other people were going with you it's still insanely expensive for what it is.

Which for comparison, there's been 14 "must-sees" so far, those 10 plus ASDM, CA Academy of Sciences, National, and White Oak. Ten for the price of one, including most of the expensive ones. Yeah, just skip White Oak and use the money you save to go visit the others.

 

[TinoPup]

With this $100 increase in pricing, let's see:

That $500 guided tour would get you into:

Disney's Animal Kingdom, $109
San Diego Zoo, $60
San Diego Zoo Safari Park, $60
Monterey Bay Aquarium, $50
SeaWorld San Diego, $100 (but frequently on sale)
Los Angeles Zoo, $22
St. Augustine Alligator Farm, $29
The Living Desert, $28
Cheyenne Mountain Zoo, $25 (varies by day and time, approx average)
Denver, $15

That's a whopping TEN of the "must see" zoos you could visit for the same price as going to White Oak by yourself. Even if one or two other people were going with you it's still insanely expensive for what it is.

Which for comparison, there's been 14 "must-sees" so far, those 10 plus ASDM, CA Academy of Sciences, National, and White Oak. Ten for the price of one, including most of the expensive ones. Yeah, just skip White Oak and use the money you save to go visit the others.

You can add in National and make it eleven, since it's free

 

[Great Argus]

You can add in National and make it eleven, since it's free

Good point.

 

[MRJ]

I would definitely class White Oaks as a zoo, price of admission is irrelevant. As for "must see" I can see why @pachyderm pro would want to include it.

Is it worth it? That is very much a personal issue. We certainly have visitors who pay $500 to $1000 for a package of experiences. For myself, I have just been organizing an African trip for next year which will cost less than that per day, so I would rather put the money into an additional day. But if I couldn't get to Africa? Maybe.

 

[Smaggledagle]

Like I mentioned earlier, I'll reveal all of the zoos that were considered for the list at the end of this thread. However, if it makes you feel any better Mystic came very, very close to making the cut.

Personal opinion as a New Englander but seeing the discourse over White Oaks getting in and seeing how Mystic came very close to making the top 50 but didn't kinda stings even more than it should.

 

[SwampDonkey]

I agree with White Oak as a zoo. I don't see how the price or admission is relevant in whether or not it is a zoo. The limited admission to tours only is more relevant to me. Still, I think it qualifies. If it were limited to tours and 1K people a day and cost $25, there would not really be a discussion if it is a zoo or not - people mostly would agree that it were one.

That said, it is too steep for me, even being within a fairly easy day trip distance. If they still had a Sumatran rhino I would say it is worth it, but not at this time.

 

[pachyderm pro]

While I still struggle to see how being reservation only or being too expensive are factors that should prevent this from being considered a real zoo, I think the latter is a fair argument as to why some don't think it should be included. The primary goal of this thread is to point people in the direction of what American zoos deserve their time, but I recognize that an institution this pricey won't be feasible for everyone. I still stand by this decision as it a remarkable facility that deserves a visit, but I think it's best we agree to disagree on this one. With that said I appreciate the dialogue even if I have taken a more unfavorable stance. Perhaps if it still had the Sumatran rhino things would have been different, but I have a feeling the next several zoos will be far more agreed upon.

 

[snowleopard]

Wow, @pachyderm pro certainly stirred the pot with his selection of White Oak. It's a tough one to debate, as the price tag for a private tour is expensive and yet it's a wonderful 'zoo' in many other ways. I probably edge towards its inclusion, but I can also understand those that think it's not a 'must-see' facility.

I wanted to clarify that when I was there in 2008, I had a free tour courtesy of a zookeeper friend at the time. My wife and I (before we had 4 kids!) went into an exhibit with an okapi, got to feed giraffes, petted a white rhino and a Sumatran rhino, went into an enclosure with a cheetah and got to pet it as if it was someone's dog, and had a total blast. All the photos that I uploaded onto ZooChat of my wife and I petting the rhinos and cheetah were deleted a few years ago due to a new website policy of not having anyone in the images. Needless to say, stroking the nose of Harapan the Sumatran rhino would have honestly been worth a few hundred dollars at the time, but we paid absolutely nothing for the experience.

 

[Coelacanth18]

Everyone clearly has an opinion on White Oak's inclusion regardless of what mine is, White Oak is certainly doing a lot of good work and it's nice to see them get recognition and highlight, even if many people disagree on whether this was the right list for that. If memory serves @pachyderm pro *did* say that they would discuss places that almost made the cut at the end, so maybe people will be placated somewhat if near-misses still get highlighted in some way or another?

Re: Fresno, as someone else who has visited I'm a little surprised people think it was "snubbed" and should be on here; frankly I don't. Don't misunderstand, I really like Fresno and its progress has been great to see... I just don't feel like anything there is especially noteworthy or memorable in a way that qualifies it as a "must-see". It's a good mid-sized zoo that is on the upwards trend, but not every American zoo needs to be on here by merit of being good and improving. Keep in mind that 50 is only one zoo per state, and California already had 7 picks

 

[pachyderm pro]

Florida - Zoo Miami

Founded: 1980
Size: 750 Acres (304 Hectares)
Species & Subspecies (On and Off Exhibit): 283
Mammals 78
Birds 111
Reptiles & Amphibians 70
Fish 15
Invertebrates 3

Out of all of the world's zoological juggernauts, Miami manages to slip under the radar more often than not, despite a large and balanced collection plus an incredibly high standard of exhibitry. The issue may be that the exhibitry isn't always the most flashy. Not necessarily for the east side of the park which consists mostly of several themed areas that have opened in the last 15 or so years. The Florida and Amazon complexes are superb in detail and are packed with species, and something to really appreciate here is the inclusion of smaller birds and herps alongside the usual crowd-pleasing mammals. Wings of Asia is one of the most spectacular aviaries found in any zoo. It's easy to lose track of time attempting to locate all 60 species to look for from several different levels. The other half of the park consists of two very large Asian and African themed loops which are mostly filled with open yards for ungulates, a category in which the zoo excels. Two species of elephant, two species of rhino, five species of wild pig and at least 20 other hoofstock including rarities such as Indian gaur, giant eland, Javan banteng and Arabian oryx among others. An immensely impressive collection, but all of the exhibits share the same general design of grassy yard with a dry moat which can get repetitive after a while, especially since it takes quite some time to get through. It's one of the largest walkthrough zoos in the country, but if one is looking to shorten the walk Miami has one of the last functioning monorails left in an American zoo as well. There are just about no bad exhibits anywhere on the grounds, but not everything is perfect and in a zoo where everything is so vast the a weak points definitely stick out. The great ape exhibits are very spacious, but are far too open and would honestly work better as hoofstock exhibits. However, it’s only a minor blemish on what’s otherwise a top-notch facility all around.

Wings of Asia, @okapikpr

Malayan Tiger Exhibit, @pachyderm pro

Portion of Bat Exhibit, @geomorph

Gemsbok Exhibit, @geomorph

Florida Wading Bird Exhibit, @geomorph

Zoochat Gallery:
https://www.zoochat.com/community/media/categories/zoo-miami.601/

Zoo Website:
Home | Zoo Miami

Zoo Map:
https://assets.speakcdn.com/assets/2440/map_only_updated_121421_map_all.jpg

 

[TinoPup]

I would definitely class White Oaks as a zoo, price of admission is irrelevant. As for "must see" I can see why @pachyderm pro would want to include it.

Is it worth it? That is very much a personal issue. We certainly have visitors who pay $500 to $1000 for a package of experiences. For myself, I have just been organizing an African trip for next year which will cost less than that per day, so I would rather put the money into an additional day. But if I couldn't get to Africa? Maybe.

This isn't a package of experiences, though. It's the basic tour.

Wow, @pachyderm pro certainly stirred the pot with his selection of White Oak. It's a tough one to debate, as the price tag for a private tour is expensive and yet it's a wonderful 'zoo' in many other ways. I probably edge towards its inclusion, but I can also understand those that think it's not a 'must-see' facility.

I wanted to clarify that when I was there in 2008, I had a free tour courtesy of a zookeeper friend at the time. My wife and I (before we had 4 kids!) went into an exhibit with an okapi, got to feed giraffes, petted a white rhino and a Sumatran rhino, went into an enclosure with a cheetah and got to pet it as if it was someone's dog, and had a total blast. All the photos that I uploaded onto ZooChat of my wife and I petting the rhinos and cheetah were deleted a few years ago due to a new website policy of not having anyone in the images. Needless to say, stroking the nose of Harapan the Sumatran rhino would have honestly been worth a few hundred dollars at the time, but we paid absolutely nothing for the experience.

I want to make sure to note none of those things are possible now (unless maybe if you know a keeper, but even then, laws and AZA policies have also changed).

It isn't just whether it is a zoo or not - again, AZA considers it a "related facility", not a zoo - but whether the starting price really makes it "must see".

 

[MRJ]

This isn't a package of experiences, though. It's the basic tour.

True. But the point is people are prepared to pay for what they consider is an exceptional experience.

It isn't just whether it is a zoo or not - again, AZA considers it a "related facility", not a zoo - but whether the starting price really makes it "must see".

What is and what isn't a zoo is certainly something that is debated here a lot. I must admit I take a very broad view, which is any facility exhibiting wild animals to the public. I think it is the nature of "must see" lists of all types they do include the extravagant, by contrast I don't think White Oaks would make it to a list of "best value" zoos.

 

[TinoPup]

True. But the point is people are prepared to pay for what they consider is an exceptional experience.

What is and what isn't a zoo is certainly something that is debated here a lot. I must admit I take a very broad view, which is any facility exhibiting wild animals to the public. I think it is the nature of "must see" lists of all types they do include the extravagant, by contrast I don't think White Oaks would make it to a list of "best value" zoos.

I'm one of the few on here who tends to do BTS-type experiences, I do several every year. But even with my top two favorite species (cheetah and maned wolf), and several others that I love, White Oak is well out of the realm of possibility for me. I'd be surprised if anyone on here was willing to pay that price.

I generally take a fairly broad definition of zoo, as well, partially because it's easier to just say "zoos" than to say "zoos, aquariums, nature centers, serpentariums, ..." and so on. But I think if we're doing a "must see" list, it's probably better to stick to a more traditional definition of it.

 

[15399]

Judging by the fact every picture of White Oak in the zoochat gallery is over ten years old, I fully expect that this will be the facility featured in this thread visited least often by zoochatters, likely due to the large cost. Also, @pachyderm pro, you mentioned the "rare hoofstock" they keep, but then named species kept by a decent number of other institutions, nothing only kept by two or three places. In my personal opinion, nothing about White Oak seems appealing enough to warrant it "must-see", but I do agree it qualifies as a zoo and respect your decision to feature it in this thread. It's just not very high on my personal bucket list, but it's not the first zoo featured I wouldn't go out of my way to visit.

 

[pachyderm pro]

Florida - Zoo Tampa

Founded: 1957
Size: 63 Acres (25 Hectares)
Species & Subspecies (On and Off Exhibit): 315
Mammals 65
Birds 118
Reptiles & Amphibians 74
Fish 48
Invertebrates 10

While many zoos have an animal that they have become synonymous with, there aren’t many major zoos bold enough to shine the spotlight on a species as unusual as the shoebill stork. Being the first American collection ever to breed them helps bolster their importance to the park, although it's a shame the old wetlands aviary had to be dismantled. Tampa as a whole provides an opportunity for lesser-appreciated rarities to really shine, and zoo nerds will be delighted to hear that there are plenty of others to be found including bay duiker, yellow-footed rock wallaby, and both Indian and false gharial. The collection of native wildlife is particularly superb with rescued manatees obviously being the main draw, seen as part of a larger building alongside a long hall of vivaria. A sizable portion of the Floridian area is under redevelopment at the moment, but in many ways is already fantastic. The zoo makes a valid effort at theming in most areas with Asian temples, African lodges and the like, although it usually doesn't try very hard to hide obvious barriers or holding buildings. This is evident in the savanna which is divided into three separate paddocks by wood and wire fencing, including a yard that mixes elephants with various antelope. Although long term ambitions involve adding more ABC's like gorillas and lions, smaller scale improvements are done frequently and this year a new Florida panther complex will be completed, plus a revamp of the old chimp habitat for hamadryas baboons. Other highlights include an aviary for blue duiker and several hornbill species, a huge group of orangutans, and a tram ride that traverses through and around back-of-house areas in the African habitats.

Shoebill Stork Aviary, @pachyderm pro

Orangutan Exhibit, @snowleopard

African Elephant, Impala, and Nile Lechwe Exhibit, @Moebelle

Sulawesi Aviary, @Moebelle

Manatee Tanks, @Moebelle

Zoochat Gallery:
Zoo Tampa at Lowry Park - ZooChat

Zoo Website:
Home - ZooTampa at Lowry Park

Zoo Map:
https://zootampa.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/zootampa-map-august-6-2021-for-screens.pdf

 

[SwampDonkey]

Florida - Zoo Tampa

Founded: 1957
Size: 63 Acres (25 Hectares)
Species & Subspecies (On and Off Exhibit): 315
Mammals 65
Birds 118
Reptiles & Amphibians 74
Fish 48
Invertebrates 10

While many zoos have an animal that they have become synonymous with, there aren’t many major zoos bold enough to shine the spotlight on a species as unusual as the shoebill stork. Being the first American collection ever to breed them helps bolster their importance to the park, although it's a shame the old wetlands aviary had to be dismantled. Tampa as a whole provides an opportunity for lesser-appreciated rarities to really shine, and zoo nerds will be delighted to hear that there are plenty of others to be found including bay duiker, yellow-footed rock wallaby, and both Indian and false gharial. The collection of native wildlife is particularly superb with rescued manatees obviously being the main draw, seen as part of a larger building alongside a long hall of vivaria. A sizable portion of the Floridian area is under redevelopment at the moment, but in many ways is already fantastic. The zoo makes a valid effort at theming in most areas with Asian temples, African lodges and the like, although it usually doesn't try very hard to hide obvious barriers or holding buildings. This is evident in the savanna which is divided into three separate paddocks by wood and wire fencing, including a yard that mixes elephants with various antelope. Although long term ambitions involve adding more ABC's like gorillas and lions, smaller scale improvements are done frequently and this year a new Florida panther complex will be completed, plus a revamp of the old chimp habitat for hamadryas baboons. Other highlights include an aviary for blue duiker and several hornbill species, a huge group of orangutans, and a tram ride that traverses through and around back-of-house areas in the African habitats.

Shoebill Stork Aviary, @pachyderm pro

Orangutan Exhibit, @snowleopard

African Elephant, Impala, and Nile Lechwe Exhibit, @Moebelle

Sulawesi Aviary, @Moebelle

Manatee Tanks, @Moebelle

Zoochat Gallery:
Zoo Tampa at Lowry Park - ZooChat

Zoo Website:
Home - ZooTampa at Lowry Park

Zoo Map:
https://zootampa.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/zootampa-map-august-6-2021-for-screens.pdf

Yeah, my hometown zoo! It really is a nice place, they could use a fair amount of sprucing up, but overall it is a great place. The redone Florida Wild will also have new black bear enclosure/s along with the Florida panther which will have 3 enclosures now.

Safari Africa was done fairly budget wise, hence the savanna being a bit lacking in design. The whole area was actually way better when it opened, it has gone a bit down hill over the years. However, it will undoubtedly receive some updates whenever the gorilla and lions are added down the road.