The Revival of the Northern White Rhino?

[Jurek7]

Do you know any actual conservation action of Sumatran rhino which was not done because of conservation of Northern white rhino?

For me it is classic derailing any action, because something else could be done.

Conservation of Sumatran rhino itself received lots of funding and expertise from the USA and Europe. Lots of money was put over several decades to reserves in Malaysia and Indonesia, which countries have also quite strong local economies, too. Currently all Sumatran rhinos are in the native climate and habitat, and proponents of local conservation have no more excuses that they are failing.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

If I was to have a guess, the main reason for this would be because the situation with the NWR makes a much more engaging story to most. The narrative of only two left on earth and relying on cutting edge science to save them from extinction, is much more dramatic and attention grabbing than the often long-winded and complex story that is being put out there regarding the Sumatran species.

This is perhaps a symptom of the NGO's working with Sumatrans not wanting to put out information that might offend the Indonesian officials that hold the keys to success.

I agree, I think the complexity of the case of the Sumatran rhino and its conservation doesn't make for as "thrilling" and "emotive" a story as the Northern white rhino with all the simple narrative and footage of the last individuals strolling across their paddock and getting a little cuddle from their keeper.

People have short attention spans and memories and naturally like simple narratives which they make for much more engagement and interest than stories with more complexity.

Also the African megafauna is just far more popular for the general public and so it doesn't take much to garner interest in it.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

Do you know any actual conservation action of Sumatran rhino which was not done because of conservation of Northern white rhino?

For me it is classic derailing any action, because something else could be done.

Conservation of Sumatran rhino itself received lots of funding and expertise from the USA and Europe. Lots of money was put over several decades to reserves in Malaysia and Indonesia, which countries have also quite strong local economies, too. Currently all Sumatran rhinos are in the native climate and habitat, and proponents of local conservation have no more excuses that they are failing.

I agree that there are no more excuses when it comes to the Sumatran rhino and I'm not suggesting that greater funding and interest for the effort for the NWR is a valid excuse for all of the bull**** on the Indonesian side of things.

Again, I agree that a lot of money and expertise was historically poured into the effort to save the Sumatran rhino and seemingly with no result.

However, far far more money, expertise, interest, media attention has gone into addressing the plight of the African rhinos than has ever reached the South-East Asian species and that is just the reality of things and one at least on some level has impacted the other.

Thats not really the point is it @Jurek7 ?

It doesn't mean that a very real bias in funding, investment, research and popular interest doesn't exist and even for one species over another within the same family taxonomically.

I'm not derailing anything as the effort with the NWR will go ahead and million spent on it whether I agree or not what I am suggesting here is that it makes more sense to prioritize the Sumatran for the reasons I've already outlined.

 

[Zoofan15]

Five viable embryos have now been created:

Two northern white rhino embryos have been created in a lab, bringing fresh hope that the animal could be saved from extinction.

The two new viable embryos add to the existing stash of three, bringing the total number of viable embryos to five.

The team sedated Fatu in December and collected egg cells from her ovaries. They could not collect egg cells from her mother Najin, possibly due to her older age and the presence of a tumor in her abdomen, according to the statement.

Fatu's egg cells were transported from Kenya to Avantea laboratory in Italy and were fertilized using the thawed sperm of Suni, who died at the Ol Pejeta Conservancy in 2014.

The scientists created two fertilized eggs from Fatu's egg cells and Suni's sperm, which then developed into viable embryos.

Full article: More northern white rhino embryos created in lab | Live Science

 

[vogelcommando]

Article about the Frozen Zoo, the avaible NWR ( Northern white rhinoceros ) material, the possibilities , the changes and the costs to produces NWR-calves :

The Bioengineering Gambit to Save the Northern White Rhino

 

[vogelcommando]

Story about Fatu, one of the 2 Northern white rhino females :

Gentle giant Fatu is the only hope for saving the northern white rhino

 

[Zorro]

Story about Fatu, one of the 2 Northern white rhino females :

Gentle giant Fatu is the only hope for saving the northern white rhino

If only the African country which had the last wild herd of Northerns had accepted the outside help offered to them at the time things could of been a whole lot better for this sub species.

 

[vogelcommando]

2 more embryos created :

https://phys.org/news/2022-02-embry...nTFeITID_m01HChGnz56xEuP0hpL4tKZtyrOv9PJKPUGM

 

[Zoofan15]

2 more embryos created :

https://phys.org/news/2022-02-embry...nTFeITID_m01HChGnz56xEuP0hpL4tKZtyrOv9PJKPUGM

These two embryos were made from Angalifu, the San Diego bull.

The program now has 14 embryos:

11 from Suni and Fatu
3 from Angalifu and Fatu

Embryos from Czech-born endangered rhinos last hope to save species

 

[Pertinax]

These two embryos were made from Angalifu, the San Diego bull.

The program now has 14 embryos:

11 from Suni and Fatu
3 from Angalifu and Fatu

Embryos from Czech-born endangered rhinos last hope to save species

It just seems odd that this is all publicised as an attempt to save a 'species' yet which is virtually indistinguishable from its Southern counterpart. That is never mentioned.

 

[Zoofan15]

It just seems odd that this is all publicised as an attempt to save a 'species' yet which is virtually indistinguishable from its Southern counterpart. That is never mentioned.

To be fair, the media are receiving their information from the programme set up to clone these rhinos.

To generate interest and support, they’d understandably be conscious not to discredit the programme in anyway by acknowledging that the Northern subspecies is damn near indistinguishable from the Southern white rhino we see in our zoos every day.

Millions of people will read the press coverage and think, “Great! They’ve brought a species back from the brink of extinction!” And the press are equally happy to run with that. It sounds more dramatic and gets more views.

 

[ThylacineAlive]

Well, it's pretty well evidenced now that they two are distinct species. Having been separated for over 1million years (longer than a fair number of speciations). Just because two animals look indistinguishable doesn't mean they are, think about how many birds species are virtually indistinguishable morphologically.

~Thylo

 

[Tetzoo Quizzer]

I am quite happy to accept the genomic evidence for separate clades; whether this makes them distinct species is more dubious to my mind. I would like some evidence that they are meaningfully distinct, for example that they do choose their own form as mating partners when given a choice, or that they differ in recognition characteristics such as pheromones, or that they possess some kind of ecological difference. I am happy that they could well be different species, and that in an ideal world they should be conserved as such, but I do not support a species definition based SOLELY on genetic differences.

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

I am quite happy to accept the genomic evidence for separate clades; whether this makes them distinct species is more dubious to my mind. I would like some evidence that they are meaningfully distinct, for example that they do choose their own form as mating partners when given a choice, or that they differ in recognition characteristics such as pheromones, or that they possess some kind of ecological difference. I am happy that they could well be different species, and that in an ideal world they should be conserved as such, but I do not support a species definition based SOLELY on genetic differences.

The evidence is also morphological and not just genetics.

 

[ThylacineAlive]

The evidence is also morphological and not just genetics.

And biogeographical.

Not to mention the notion that a species is defined by whether or not it readily hybridizes with relatives is pretty unfounded by this point (are there any known hybrids between the two white rhinos?)

~Thylo

 

[TeaLovingDave]

(are there any known hybrids between the two white rhinos?)

~Thylo

I have a feeling there *were* a few recorded occasions yes. @Tim May may know more.

From memory, the split between the two White rhinoceros species predates that between Indian and Javan, with genetic differences being greater too.

 

[Gavialis]

I believe 'Nasi', who was born at Dvur Králové in the 1970s, was a hybrid - her mother, 'Nasima', was a northern white rhino and her father a southern white.

 

[Tim May]

... are there any known hybrids between the two white rhinos?

I have a feeling there *were* a few recorded occasions yes. @Tim May may know more

I know that a hybrid northern white rhino x southern white rhino was born in Dvur Kralove in 1977.

The mother of the hybrid calf was the northern white rhino "Nasima"; the identity of the southern white rhino father is unknown.

Edit apologies "Gavialis", our posts crossed.

 

[Tetzoo Quizzer]

I have a feeling there *were* a few recorded occasions yes. @Tim May may know more.

From memory, the split between the two White rhinoceros species predates that between Indian and Javan, with genetic differences being greater too.

And you’re old enough to remember the split?
(And there should have been a winky emoticon here!)

 

[Tetzoo Quizzer]

More seriously; I suppose I am happy to accept a wide definition of species; not every distinctive population should be a species in my book. There may be populations which are genetically and morphologically diagnosable, but which are fundamentally filling the same niche in different habitats. If they were to come into sympatry in future, then they could recombine into a single gene pool. It could thus be argued that they never fully diverged into separate species. On the other hand, such future events must always remain speculative; therefore I am certainly willing to accept a pragmatic species definition looking solely at the status quo. It is less open to dispute, so may be better “legally”, but I remain unconvinced that it is necessarily the best representation of the biological situation. Are Carrion and Hooded Crows different species? Until the meaning of “species” is defined, the answer remains unclear.