Miami Seaquarium Miami Seaquarium

[IndianRhino]

Yeah, moving her to SWO will definitely enrage the animal rights activist groups like PETA. Not only that, it will be very difficult for keepers to integrate Lolita/Toki into the pod at SWO. Lolita has been on her own for a very long time and it’s likely she’ll “clash” with matriarch Katina. SWO’s pod has already been facing minor issues with Malia acting out so bringing in Lolita may be too much at the moment. Nonetheless, if she *has* to be moved, SWO is definitely the best place possible atm. Perhaps they’ll choose to keep her separately from the other orcas, though I wonder if they have the space to manage 3 different groups since they already keep the 2 males and 3 females separately (to avoid breeding).

 

[Jambo]

Yeah, moving her to SWO will definitely enrage the animal rights activist groups like PETA. Not only that, it will be very difficult for keepers to integrate Lolita/Toki into the pod at SWO. Lolita has been on her own for a very long time and it’s likely she’ll “clash” with matriarch Katina. SWO’s pod has already been facing minor issues with Malia acting out so bringing in Lolita may be too much at the moment. Nonetheless, if she *has* to be moved, SWO is definitely the best place possible atm. Perhaps they’ll choose to keep her separately from the other orcas, though I wonder if they have the space to manage 3 different groups since they already keep the 2 males and 3 females separately (to avoid breeding).

There might be one killer whale there that Lolita may get along with, we'll just have to see. I'd imagine maybe she might get along well with the boys, Trua and Makaio more than girls but it's really hard to predict.

I'm also not sure how this would work as SWO's killer whale's are Icelandic and Lolita is from the pacific, and its been shown in the past at SWC that this can be quite an issue. There, Kasatka often attacked Corky, which was deemed too stem from the fact that they just couldn't understand each other. Whilst Katina is more laid back than Kasatka, she is still a protective matriarch and its quite possible she may go at Lolita the same way if they're introduced.

They have five pools, but usually give them access to two each at a time. A third smaller group of just Lolita could work, and even then it would be better, as the tanks are larger and she will still have the opportunity to interact with the other killer whales through the gates.

 

[TinoPup]

Toki will no longer be performing shows and her exhibit will no longer be accessible to park guests. This move coincides with USDA approval for The Dolphin Company to begin managing the park per the sale by Palace Entertainment.

Shows are over for Seaquarium’s killer whale Lolita, new managers say. 50-year era ends

There is very little clarity on if this is a condition of USDA license being granted or if new management made this decision on their own. The article bounces back and forth numerous times in the first few paragraphs.

It's per the USDA. Their exhibitor license was only approved if it excluded Tokitae and the dolphin she lives with. That means closing the stadium, since that's where they live, and they aren't allowed to be exhibited. They also aren't allowed to share photos of them on social media. It's a really odd decision. Anti-caps seem to think this is a victory for them, like they're just going to ship her off to some non-existent sanctuary

 

[Joseph G]

Anti-caps seem to think this is a victory for them, like they're just going to ship her off to some non-existent sanctuary

Unfortunately that belief extends well beyond the anti-caps to a good portion of the public down here. The mayor keeps making the suggestion that Toki can be retired to a non-existent sanctuary even though she has no say in the matter. Just riling people for the sake of riling them up.

 

[Aelita]

It's per the USDA. Their exhibitor license was only approved if it excluded Tokitae and the dolphin she lives with. That means closing the stadium, since that's where they live, and they aren't allowed to be exhibited. They also aren't allowed to share photos of them on social media. It's a really odd decision. Anti-caps seem to think this is a victory for them, like they're just going to ship her off to some non-existent sanctuary

Not being allowed to post her is weird and contradictory. MSQ was just starting to provide updates on Lolita/Tokitae, especially the health updates. Now, it’s likely we won’t hear anything much- which is disappointing.

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

It's per the USDA. Their exhibitor license was only approved if it excluded Tokitae and the dolphin she lives with. That means closing the stadium, since that's where they live, and they aren't allowed to be exhibited. They also aren't allowed to share photos of them on social media. It's a really odd decision. Anti-caps seem to think this is a victory for them, like they're just going to ship her off to some non-existent sanctuary

This happens when we have the cetacean political correctness brigade at work. No measures or rules than make any informed sound sense.

 

[MidwestFan]

A lot of silence from Miami on the situation with orca and PWD. Anyone heard any updates? Any plans for moving either species?

 

[Westcoastperson]

A lot of silence from Miami on the situation with orca and PWD. Anyone heard any updates? Any plans for moving either species?

Both animals will still be kept behind the scenes for now.

 

[Jambo]

A lot of silence from Miami on the situation with orca and PWD. Anyone heard any updates? Any plans for moving either species?

They're behind the scenes at the moment; the stadium is now off display.

I think it's incredibly likely both will be moved on to another collection in the future, although for now it's a matter of when.

 

[TinoPup]

They're not allowed to say anything about the orca.

 

[TheMightyOrca]

They're behind the scenes at the moment; the stadium is now off display.

I think it's incredibly likely both will be moved on to another collection in the future, although for now it's a matter of when.

I dunno, I feel like Lolita's fate is up in the air. SeaWorld probably won't want to take in an orca that has been living alone for decades, it might be too hard to integrate her with the social group, and there aren't many other facilities in North America that can house an orca. Of course, her current tank is so small and pathetic that it shouldn't be hard to find a tank that is at least an improvement, even if it's still not ideal.

 

[Jambo]

I dunno, I feel like Lolita's fate is up in the air. SeaWorld probably won't want to take in an orca that has been living alone for decades, it might be too hard to integrate her with the social group, and there aren't many other facilities in North America that can house an orca. Of course, her current tank is so small and pathetic that it shouldn't be hard to find a tank that is at least an improvement, even if it's still not ideal.

I agree, I think due to new regulations Miami may be forced to give up Lolita to another facility; I doubt they'll go to the lengths of a building her an entire new pool.

Seaworld is really the only other option, as all other facilities around the world that hold orcas are inadequate for Lolita.

 

[TheMightyOrca]

I agree, I think due to new regulations Miami may be forced to give up Lolita to another facility; I doubt they'll go to the lengths of a building her an entire new pool.

Seaworld is really the only other option, as all other facilities around the world that hold orcas are inadequate for Lolita.

I didn't really consider facilities outside of North America as possibilities cause I figured it would be logistically too difficult to move her that far.

 

[zoogoer92]

I agree, I think due to new regulations Miami may be forced to give up Lolita to another facility; I doubt they'll go to the lengths of a building her an entire new pool.

Seaworld is really the only other option, as all other facilities around the world that hold orcas are inadequate for Lolita.

A lot of new regulations have in them essentially a grandfather clause to exempt current stock from new requirements so I doubt that Lolita would be affected by them - unless of course there's legislation that doesn't have the exemptions

 

[Jambo]

I didn't really consider facilities outside of North America as possibilities cause I figured it would be logistically too difficult to move her that far.

Technically, they could still be options. But taking into consideration her age, it would be best to shift her to Seaworld. Marineland's a dark horse, but the care their for their orcas have been highly criticised over the years.

 

[zoogoer92]

Technically, they could still be options. But taking into consideration her age, it would be best to shift her to Seaworld. Marineland's a dark horse, but the care their for their orcas have been highly criticised over the years.

Marineland would be a terrible option in general with their record on animal care, acclimating her to a new climate, etc, but even if they wanted to, cetaceans can't be imported/exported into/from Canada anymore

 

[Jambo]

Marineland would be a terrible option in general with their record on animal care, acclimating her to a new climate, etc, but even if they wanted to, cetaceans can't be imported/exported into/from Canada anymore

They have had terrible results with their cetacean care over the years. And have done nothing to assist Kiska who's been living solitary for more than a decade now. If they wanted the best for her, they'd send her to Seaworld where she can have the companionship of other whales, and ultimately better care.

France also has a ban from importing Orcas, so that rules out them too. Loro Parque has a dysfunctional pod, so would be the worst option for Lolita imo. China and Japan are thus the only other realistic options besides Seaworld, but I doubt they'd let Lolita make the journey halfway around the world.

 

[Westcoastperson]

They have had terrible results with their cetacean care over the years. And have done nothing to assist Kiska who's been living solitary for more than a decade now. If they wanted the best for her, they'd send her to Seaworld where she can have the companionship of other whales, and ultimately better care.

France also has a ban from importing Orcas, so that rules out them too. Loro Parque has a dysfunctional pod, so would be the worst option for Lolita imo. China and Japan are thus the only other realistic options besides Seaworld, but I doubt they'd let Lolita make the journey halfway around the world.

We could go on about what the remaining Orca holders in North America should do to help the Orca population. SeaWorld should move all their Orcas to San Diego and go through with the blue world project to get a good pod dynamic and to stop the string of deaths plaguing the parks. Better exhibit , better social life, and better facilities to keep the Orcas around as long as possible with the best quality of life. But realistically this won’t happen (not at least for a while) neither will Marineland or Miami Seaquarium move their animals. At this point there is no value for any of the parks to move their animals out. It would be more difficult to move Lolita than to just leave her where she is. With the risk of pneumonia during cetacean transport having the orcas move south to SeaWorld or west to Asia is a terrible idea and takes away a major exhibit point for Marineland.

 

[Jambo]

SeaWorld should move all their Orcas to San Diego and go through with the blue world project to get a good pod dynamic and to stop the string of deaths plaguing the parks. Better exhibit , better social life, and better facilities to keep the Orcas around as long as possible with the best quality of life.

I agree with this, it's a shame the Blue World project was cancelled, and that was all thanks to Seaworld ending breeding, meaning they didn't want to dedicate an entire facility to orcas that will slowly decrease in number and die out eventually.

I'm definitely a big supporter of this idea though. Orlando and San Antonio both have five orcas remaining, and soon, if the numbers decrease even more; they'll have to send the remaining orcas to one of the other parks.

It would be more difficult to move Lolita than to just leave her where she is. With the risk of pneumonia during cetacean transport having the orcas move south to SeaWorld or west to Asia is a terrible idea and takes away a major exhibit point for Marineland.

I don't think Orca transport is an issue, although it may be for Kiska and Lolita specifically due to their age and ongoing health issues.

 

[Westcoastperson]

I agree with this, it's a shame the Blue World project was cancelled, and that was all thanks to Seaworld ending breeding, meaning they didn't want to dedicate an entire facility to orcas that will slowly decrease in number and die out eventually.

I'm definitely a big supporter of this idea though. Orlando and San Antonio both have five orcas remaining, and soon, if the numbers decrease even more; they'll have to send the remaining orcas to one of the other parks.



I don't think Orca transport is an issue, although it may be for Kiska and Lolita specifically due to their age and ongoing health issues.

That’s why I think San Diego is the best place to put all the Orcas because it’s already the largest facility and has the opportunity to get larger. It also has the largest pod currently in a SeaWorld park. Not to mention the massive backstage facility could easily handle the new orcas + any animals not compatible with the main exhibit.
All cetacean transport has a degree of danger because of pneumonia. During the early days of cetacean captivity (up until the 70s/80s) pneumonia during cetacean transport was common. SeaWorld still has issues with it evident by the issues from the 2012 commersons Dolphin transport. It’s very much a real danger to all of the Orcas.