Australasian Western Lowland Gorilla Population

[Pertinax]

Yuska was witnessed mating with Rigo, and Johari engaged in similar behaviours too. Interestingly I believe Rigo and G-Ann mated the most; G Ann was really the only female he mated with, but unfortunately G Ann was on contraception! Quite a shame.

Interesting that Yuska and Rigo mated in later life after being reunited, as when they were younger they didn't(?) I thought- hence the necessity for the AI that produced Mzuri/YK ? Nor did I know G.Ann and Rigo mated either, indeed a pity she wasn't able to become pregnant from this, or Johari either if she mated with him too- yet another fact I hadn't been aware of.

 

[Zoofan15]

Interesting that Yuska and Rigo mated in later life after being reunited, as when they were younger they didn't(?) I thought- hence the necessity for the AI that produced Mzuri/YK ? Nor did I know G.Ann and Rigo mated either, indeed a pity she wasn't able to become pregnant from this, or Johari either if she mated with him too- yet another fact I hadn't been aware of.

Rigo mating with G-Ann and Johari is news to me, but apparently Yuska allowing Rigo to mate with her occurred after Mbeli’s introduction to the troop in 2010. Prior to her introduction, Yuska was the dominant force in the troop and showed little deference to Rigo.

Mbeli, a mother raised gorilla, presented to Rigo for mating and Yuska allowed him to mate with her too as she was conscious of the younger female displacing her in the hierarchy.

 

[Zoofan15]

I too also recall reading somewhere about Fataki aggressively slapping Mouila! Although he'd often do the same too Kibabu as he got older, instigating a fight between Frala's family and the rest of the group. He was initially close to Mbeli during his younger years but they grew apart as they both got older. He was largely an outsider of the group, and only really got along well with his younger brother Fuzu.

Yuska, Johari and Mbeli were the females allowed to breed back then if I can recall correctly. It's a shame none never conceived although Yuska was 40 at the time and Johari and Mbeli were still both young so there was never really a good chance for them to fall pregnant. Yuska was witnessed mating with Rigo, and Johari engaged in similar behaviours too. Interestingly I believe Rigo and G-Ann mated the most; G Ann was really the only female he mated with, but unfortunately G Ann was on contraception! Quite a shame.

Fataki became a huge pain for the troop towards the end of his time there versus Mouila’s sons, Haoko and Shabani, who remained in the troop well into adolescence without incident. There’s a video here of a conflict which appears to have been started by Fataki. Kibabu is trying to discipline him and Frala is blocking him; supported by Mbeli and Kimya, who are clearly loving the drama:

I found a post on here from 2007 that said G-Ann and Julia’s contraceptive implants were going to be removed in the hope they’d mate with Rigo. An infant from Rigo and Julia would have been the most valuable given they were both founders.

The decision was made following Yuska’s caesarean in 1999 not to breed with her again as it was discovered her uterine walls were thin, making pregnancy risky. She’s remained on contraception ever since.

 

[Jambo]

Rigo mating with G-Ann and Johari is news to me, but apparently Yuska allowing Rigo to mate with her occurred after Mbeli’s introduction to the troop in 2010. Prior to her introduction, Yuska was the dominant force in the troop and showed little deference to Rigo.

Mbeli, a mother raised gorilla, presented to Rigo for mating and Yuska allowed him to mate with her too as she was conscious of the younger female displacing her in the hierarchy.

Yuska was observed mating with Rigo, later on following Mbeli's arrival; she was quite disinterested with him at first. She was kept on contraception though due to the walls of her uterus being thin following the c-section birth of Yakini, and so they decided not to risk another pregnancy with her.

G Ann and Julia were taken off contraception for a bit and both showed some interest in Rigo but he didn't really show any back. I read somewhere though that Motaba was interested and trying to climb poles to get to the girls. He could've possibly mated with G Ann also around the time Mbeli arrived but I believe she was on contraception again.

Johari was apparently quite interested in Rigo, and the keepers believed she may have mated with Rigo but there isn't any definitive evidence. She would often follow Rigo around for extended periods of time and poor Rigo didn't know what to do with all the attention!

Yuska definitely was the dominant female at the time, and there was really never any competition besides Betsy who was never really focused on group politics ect; she spent most of her time resting or playing with the young infants.

 

[Zoofan15]

Yuska was observed mating with Rigo, later on following Mbeli's arrival; she was quite disinterested with him at first. She was kept on contraception though due to the walls of her uterus being thin following the c-section birth of Yakini, and so they decided not to risk another pregnancy with her.

G Ann and Julia were taken off contraception for a bit and both showed some interest in Rigo but he didn't really show any back. I read somewhere though that Motaba was interested and trying to climb poles to get to the girls. He could've possibly mated with G Ann also around the time Mbeli arrived but I believe she was on contraception again.

Johari was apparently quite interested in Rigo, and the keepers believed she may have mated with Rigo but there isn't any definitive evidence. She would often follow Rigo around for extended periods of time and poor Rigo didn't know what to do with all the attention!

Yuska definitely was the dominant female at the time, and there was really never any competition besides Betsy who was never really focused on group politics ect; she spent most of her time resting or playing with the young infants.

Yuska’s assuming dominance of the troop over is a typical response to a weak silverback. Due to his upbringing, Rigo had no idea of how to act as a silverback and exert his dominance over the females. Consequently, they ran rings around him. It should be noted that five females was a sizeable number for even a capable silverback to manage, so to integrate them with Rigo was never going to work.

Given Mbeli was with Rigo for over two years prior to his death and never conceived, I’m doubtful long term he’d have successfully mated with any of the females; though Mbeli was certainly the catalyst for asserting the natural social order of the troop and would have benefited Johari by demonstrating normal silverback/female interactions.

Though wary of Kibale, Johari was at least able to be integrated into his troop and live safely with her own kind. This is more than can be said for her mother, who was badly injured by one silverback; and killed by another due to her misreading of normal gorilla body language.

 

[Jambo]

Yuska’s assuming dominance of the troop over is a typical response to a weak silverback. Due to his upbringing, Rigo had no idea of how to act as a silverback and exert his dominance over the females. Consequently, they ran rings around him. It should be noted that five females was a sizeable number for even a capable silverback to manage, so to integrate them with Rigo was never going to work.

Given Mbeli was with Rigo for over two years prior to his death and never conceived, I’m doubtful long term he’d have successfully mated with any of the females; though Mbeli was certainly the catalyst for asserting the natural social order of the troop and would have benefited Johari by demonstrating normal silverback/female interactions.

Though wary of Kibale, Johari was at least able to be integrated into his troop and live safely with her own kind. This is more than can be said for her mother, who was badly injured by one silverback; and killed by another due to her misreading of normal gorilla body language.

That's true, I heard Rigo would often go beserk and attack one of the females due to him not being able to control all five of them. Yuska and G Ann barely payed attention to him, whereas Julia, Johari and occasionally Mbeli would show interest in him.

Despite the fact that Rigo was observed mating with at least Yuska, he never successfully impregnated any of the girls despite the fact he had large windows of opportunity over the seven years he was with them. It's quite a shame that he was only confirmed to have been mating with Yuska, the only female who was on contraception during that time.

I'm quite confident Johari may have been able to breed eventually with Rigo, if she had been able to witness some births first. She got along well in Rigo's troop and was thoroughly interested in him, but since she's moved to Taronga, she's shown little interest in Kibali.

In Julia's case, she thought she was a chimp, due to her being raised with alongside a chimp. She learnt chimp behaviour and socialisation, consequently meaning she could never really understand other gorillas. Motaba was a wonder though, managing to head up a troop with many socially deprived females and then going on to successfully breed with all of them. It's a shame they couldn't keep him as their silverback as it might've made more sense to allow Rigo to head up the bachelor troop and retain Motoba for future breeding.

 

[Zoofan15]

I'm quite confident Johari may have been able to breed eventually with Rigo, if she had been able to witness some births first. She got along well in Rigo's troop and was thoroughly interested in him, but since she's moved to Taronga, she's shown little interest in Kibali.

In Julia's case, she thought she was a chimp, due to her being raised with alongside a chimp. She learnt chimp behaviour and socialisation, consequently meaning she could never really understand other gorillas. Motaba was a wonder though, managing to head up a troop with many socially deprived females and then going on to successfully breed with all of them. It's a shame they couldn't keep him as their silverback as it might've made more sense to allow Rigo to head up the bachelor troop and retain Motoba for future breeding.

It’s been suggested that Johari’s disinterest in males stems from not observing typical male-female interactions under Rigo’s leadership. She was 10 years old when Mbeli arrived at Taronga and at the tail end of the critical learning period. She’d have faired better socially in a troop led by Motoba; as would the females.

Any interest Johari demonstrated towards Rigo was probably more indicative of her familiarity towards him. She’d grown up around him and didn’t regard him as something to be wary of in the way she does Kibali (or any other silverback).

Johari has never observed the maternal process but clearly likes juveniles. I imagine she’d likely reject her own infant if she were to have one, but could well accept it back and interact with it at the juvenile stage - the same way the Melbourne females did with their infants.

 

[Jambo]

It’s been suggested that Johari’s disinterest in males stems from not observing typical male-female interactions under Rigo’s leadership. She was 10 years old when Mbeli arrived at Taronga and at the tail end of the critical learning period. She’d have faired better socially in a troop led by Motoba; as would the females.

Any interest Johari demonstrated towards Rigo was probably more indicative of her familiarity towards him. She’d grown up around him and didn’t regard him as something to be wary of in the way she does Kibali (or any other silverback).

Johari has never observed the maternal process but clearly likes juveniles. I imagine she’d likely reject her own infant if she were to have one, but could well accept it back and interact with it at the juvenile stage - the same way the Melbourne females did with their infants.

Johari never grew up around Rigo, they remained mainly seperate up until 2006 when Motoba was moved out. There would be no physical interactions whatsoever but its quite possible that she was very interested in him before the introductions as she was able to see him, smell him ect. and this contributed to her somewhat fascination with him after the introductions.

I'd have liked to see Melbourne's group continue under Motoba, alongside some new females from overseas to breed. This would've worked much better than subbing Rigo in, who never really stood a chance with five socially deprived females, especially being quite incapable silverback himself.

Yuska was one known to reject her infants at first and then accept them back once they became juveniles. Julia was much more motherly and accepted Johari back within a month of her birth, whereas G Ann just out right rejected Ganyeka, who was peer raised by the keepers and the other adult females.

 

[Pertinax]

Johari has never observed the maternal process but clearly likes juveniles. I imagine she’d likely reject her own infant if she were to have one, but could well accept it back and interact with it at the juvenile stage - the same way the Melbourne females did with their infants.

Don't necessarily discount Johari's ability in that direction... There are a number of examples of females with no prior experiences of babies, juveniles or mother-rearing example, rearing their first baby very well. Some of these were themselves handraised, examples; Zaire & Salome at London Zoo 1980's, Romina at Bristol Zoo, 2000's.

 

[Pertinax]

Julia was much more motherly and accepted Johari back within a month of her birth,

So was Johari mother-raised after one month?

 

[Pertinax]

. I read somewhere though that Motaba was interested and trying to climb poles to get to the girls. He could've possibly mated with G Ann also around the time Mbeli arrived but I believe she was on contraception again.

I saw Motaba doing this when Buluman was given the group and Motaba had been seperated in the old grotto next door. Its a common way for males to see what's going on next door.

Motaba, with his very social upbringing in Jersey Zoo, I'm sure would mate/breed with any female that would let him. At Melbourne the failures were largely with the females' backgrounds I think and their relationships with the later males.

 

[Zoofan15]

Don't necessarily discount Johari's ability in that direction... There are a number of examples of females with no prior experiences of babies, juveniles or mother-rearing example, rearing their first baby very well. Some of these were themselves handraised, examples; Zaire & Salome at London Zoo 1980's, Romina at Bristol Zoo, 2000's.

True. Like Zaire, Johari was peer raised so may well have enough association with her own kind to take to motherhood. She clearly enjoys juveniles, so would at least accept the infant back at that stage.

Another option could be for Mbeli to raise the infant. The females at Prague have often taken on each other’s offspring and it’s been reported at other zoos. After Fabumi’s birth, Mbeli tried unsuccessfully to take him off Frala, which was interpreted as a combination of maternal instinct and dominance (new infant = attention from the silverback).

 

[Pertinax]

Johari was apparently quite interested in Rigo, and the keepers believed she may have mated with Rigo but there isn't any definitive evidence. She would often follow Rigo around for extended periods of time and poor Rigo didn't know what to do with all the attention!

That sounds to me like Rigo didn't mate her...she was probably in oestrus some of the time when she did that. Usually a male will mate the female regularly over that period of a day or two. It can't really be missed with close observation.

 

[Zoofan15]

So was Johari mother-raised after one month?

According to this article, Johari wasn’t fully integrated with her mother and the troop until she was two years old: In danger

Julia initially showed little interest in her, but had the opportunity to see her on a daily basis.

 

[Pertinax]

True. Like Zaire, Johari was peer raised so may well have enough association with her own kind to take to motherhood. She clearly enjoys juveniles, so would at least accept the infant back at that stage.

Another option could be for Mbeli to raise the infant. The females at Prague have often taken on each other’s offspring and it’s been reported at other zoos. After Fabumi’s birth, Mbeli tried unsuccessfully to take him off Frala, which was interpreted as a combination of maternal instinct and dominance (new infant = attention from the silverback).

Romina at Bristol had never seen another gorilla all her life in Rome apart from her original partner Bongo whom she grew up with. At Bristol she reared her only infant (Namoki) perfectly though, as if she had done it all her life. But she never became pregnant again. She was desocialised from her handrearing background and had become pregnant 'accidentally' after new silverback Jock trapped her in a corner. It never happened again. There was a similar situation in Chessington with female Baffia becoming pregnant from a single 'trapped mating' - again it was a one-off.

 

[Pertinax]

According to this article, Johari wasn’t fully integrated with her mother and the troop until she was two years old: In danger

That would better explain her later problems I think. A female raised after one month by its mother would be socially well balanced which Johari doesn't seem to be.

 

[Zoofan15]

Motaba, with his very social upbringing in Jersey Zoo, I'm sure would mate/breed with any female that would let him. At Melbourne the failures were largely with the females' backgrounds I think and their relationships with the later males.

Motoba surely had his work cut out. The eldest female, Betsy, was 33 when he arrived and would scream hysterically for the most minor of reasons. Captured from the wild as an infant, she presumably had some post traumatic trauma, but bred twice successfully with Motoba. Articles from the time stated he wasn’t trusted around his offspring due to his young age and boisterous nature; so Buluman played a surrogate father role to them.

 

[Zoofan15]

That would better explain her later problems I think. A female raised after one month by its mother would be socially well balanced which Johari doesn't seem to be.

The two year lag in joining the troop full time meant she would have missed out on so much socialisation infants learn through assimilation. It was further compounded by Julia not modelling normal social behaviour when they were introduced. Julia had an inability to read normal gorilla body language, which ultimately led to Otana’s fatal attack out of frustration she was ignoring his message to give Kimya and the newborn space.

 

[Pertinax]

Motoba surely had his work cut out. The eldest female, Betsy, was 33 when he arrived and would scream hysterically for the most minor of reasons. Captured from the wild as an infant, she presumably had some post traumatic trauma, but bred twice successfully with Motoba. Articles from the time stated he wasn’t trusted around his offspring due to his young age and boisterous nature; so Buluman played a surrogate father role to them.

Yes, lots of examples of younger/blackback males that are good breeders but too boisterous around the babies. They aren't mature enough to govern a troop so all sorts of problems.

I saw Betsy several times. Her daughter Bahasha/Bambuti finally has a successful offspring in Jersey. Betsy's beautiful son Buzandi(who himself looks very like Betsy) has several/many descendants in Hanover- he was another example of a male being too young to handle a group properly when he was young- I think he even killed one of the early babies.

 

[Zoofan15]

I saw Betsy several times. Her daughter Bahasha/Bambuti finally has a successful offspring in Jersey. Betsy's beautiful son Buzandi(who himself looks very like Betsy) has several/many descendants in Hanover- he was another example of a male being too young to handle a group properly when he was young- I think he even killed one of the early babies.

I’m glad Bambuti has finally succeeded in welcoming a healthy infant. It’d been a long road and Jersey have faced many challenges in their attempts to rebuild their troop.

Buzandi has sired 13 offspring to date, the first born in 2004. His first three offspring survived; which was followed by a stillbirth in 2007; and then two more surviving infants in 2007 and 2008. He did indeed kill his next infant - a five month old daughter in 2008. It was noted she’d been neglected by her mother; who subsequently neglected her next infant also, which died of pneumonia. His only other offspring to die in infancy was in 2015. A two month old male infant fell off a ledge, cracking his skull.