ZSL Whipsnade Zoo Last two African lions euthanised

Megan Jones said:
As a possibly irrelevant aside I would think it may be wise for collections to start to consider suitable mates for Khari of blackpool and Khari of Port Lympne
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Do you think either of those would be a possible whipsnade leader? Guess port lymone will try to rewild any poor lion that passes it but interesting if either would be moved or added to in situ - females seem harder to come by than males at the moment.
 
Lafone said:
It’ll be a shame when the temporary lions have gone - with both the cheetahs and the lions absent that whole end of the park will feel a lot more fragmented and empty.
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Lafone said:
Do you think either of those would be a possible whipsnade leader? Guess port lymone will try to rewild any poor lion that passes it but interesting if either would be moved or added to in situ - females seem harder to come by than males at the moment.
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Trust me Africa Alive need all the help they can get as such a small zoo and having just lost their cheetah cub. Without sounding crude those lions are old they deserve to die in their home with the keepers who are their family.
Neither of the khari’s are really looking for a new home, the blackpool one will only need a companion as his father is ageing. As i said the port lympne one will likely go to howletts. The issue with crossing UK lions atm is their relation to Kabir, technically you could put PL khari with blair drummond as there are 4 generations between their common ancestor. Essentially most of the young lions in the UK are either grandchildren or great grandchildren of kabir. If you mix the kabir/ longleat lineage and the woburn lineage it’ll be really hard to breed a good line in the future.
 
Megan Jones said:
Trust me Africa Alive need all the help they can get as such a small zoo and having just lost their cheetah cub. Without sounding crude those lions are old they deserve to die in their home with the keepers who are their family.
Neither of the khari’s are really looking for a new home, the blackpool one will only need a companion as his father is ageing. As i said the port lympne one will likely go to howletts. The issue with crossing UK lions atm is their relation to Kabir, technically you could put PL khari with blair drummond as there are 4 generations between their common ancestor. Essentially most of the young lions in the UK are either grandchildren or great grandchildren of kabir. If you mix the kabir/ longleat lineage and the woburn lineage it’ll be really hard to breed a good line in the future.
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Definitely support them going to their home to finish out their days - was fun to be able to see them but very much a temporary move. Hope they have a good few years left yet to enjoy their time without their enclosure blowing down!

Really meant it’s important for whipsnade to get some cats into the vacant spaces.

Sounds like sourcing in Europe or further afield and outside the U.K. would be the right move - be a shame if it takes a really long time as you start to wonder if we will see lions at whipsnade at all in 2022.
 
Lafone said:
Definitely support them going to their home to finish out their days - was fun to be able to see them but very much a temporary move. Hope they have a good few years left yet to enjoy their time without their enclosure blowing down!

Really meant it’s important for whipsnade to get some cats into the vacant spaces.

Sounds like sourcing in Europe or further afield and outside the U.K. would be the right move - be a shame if it takes a really long time as you start to wonder if we will see lions at whipsnade at all in 2022.
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Sorry i realise i completely misread your first post
 
In fairness there's quite a few African lions in the UK that are surplus to breeding requirements. It would be nice to see some surplus individuals be rehomed to Whipsnade albeit this will never happen
 
From my understanding talking to a volunteer at port lympne there khari will be the new breeding male heading his own pride in coming months replacing adras as there mane man… he’s getting 2 females they may already be there

wouldn’t surprise me if they don’t move the old pair from wales to howletts zupler n Wilmer
 
Embu said:
In fairness there's quite a few African lions in the UK that are surplus to breeding requirements. It would be nice to see some surplus individuals be rehomed to Whipsnade albeit this will never happen
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Agree with that - whipsnade is a good enclosure (needs a bit of work but nothing major) and would be a great home for a bachelor group / surplus group. As you say though I don’t think they will do it - lure of cubs too high.
 
Tankyboi said:
From my understanding talking to a volunteer at port lympne there khari will be the new breeding male heading his own pride in coming months replacing adras as there mane man… he’s getting 2 females they may already be there

wouldn’t surprise me if they don’t move the old pair from wales to howletts zupler n Wilmer
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Thankfully Khari seems to be a well natured lion that has been well socialised so i would anticipate better success than the last time that was attempted. Seems odd to have two breeding prides, or alternatively if they plan of discontinuing the other pride that’s a lot of well bred young lioness not contributing. Though i completely appreciate there will be a lack of space for a replacement male until the latest litter have grown up and been relocated
 
I did ask about there plans for the current pride atm there not thinking that far ahead given the cubs are still young but long term they plan I guess they plan to have 2 breeding prides given I hear they plan to build a lodge looking into the big enclosure
 
One would think ZSL would be looking into something for peak season (June-August) but who knows? It’s all gone a bit quiet!
 
Lafone said:
They were talking about having a breeding pride (though they could have bachelors where there would be lots to choose from) so it’s not easy to know where they would come from. Can they assemble one (if they get a male) and add females? What is the process for creating one or do they have to come as a group from a pair for example?

From a little bit of reading they can create a pride if they get a suitable male and manage introductions but then they’d possibly have to rethink the space? Either splitting the enclosure or the house to create safe conditions for an introduction?
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To elaborate on some good points made here, I assume personality would also play a part in sourcing a pride. I can’t imagine ZSL would want a repeat of recent big cat introductions that occurred at London regarding both their lions AND tigers (dominance issues, bullying, fatalities!).

The founding pride for LOTS arrived I believe as one group, so common sense dictates that will happen again.
 
Panthera1981 said:
To elaborate on some good points made here, I assume personality would also play a part in sourcing a pride. I can’t imagine ZSL would want a repeat of recent big cat introductions that occurred at London regarding both their lions AND tigers (dominance issues, bullying, fatalities!).

The founding pride for LOTS arrived I believe as one group, so common sense dictates that will happen again.
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I thought the last pride came from WMWP and they were related ?
 
Megan Jones said:
I thought the last pride came from WMWP and they were related ?
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Correct, from West Mids to Whipsnade, one male and two unrelated females. I don’t know the lineages, but no doubt there was some faint connections further back in the bloodlines…someone out there probably knows!
 
i suppose my point was really that of the collections that have received ready made prides they’ve been related and have either not been for breeding or have been, with unfortunate consequences down the line. This premise whilst ideal because of the reasons you mention above is also dependant on a collection having a “spare” breeding group.
 
Panthera1981 said:
To elaborate on some good points made here, I assume personality would also play a part in sourcing a pride. I can’t imagine ZSL would want a repeat of recent big cat introductions that occurred at London regarding both their lions AND tigers (dominance issues, bullying, fatalities!).

The founding pride for LOTS arrived I believe as one group, so common sense dictates that will happen again.
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Yes definitely - the idea of lions killing each other at Whipsnade isn't a good one, no one wants a repeat of tiger London and so creating a pride will be a bit of an art!

As you and Megan have both wisely mentioned it's a bit of a dilemma between a possibly related ready group (if there is even being one available) and creating either a foundation one or introducing a number of cats to each other which would necessitate some enclosure work I expect.

If they do want to breed sucessfully they probably do need to find animals as distantly related to each other as possible / not related.

Does leave me wondering where this unicorn lion pride exists!
 
The return of the Africa Alive Lions has come at the best time. Blackpool Zoo are renewing their Big Cat enclosure. With the Whipsnade Lion enclosure being vacant,I think Wallace and his Son Khari could move into it. I think Blackpool’s Tigeress could move to Howeletts. Arina their Tiger has recently passed away.
 
I’ve not long got back from howletts
Talking to a keeper they have no plans to bring amur tigers back there now there gonna be focused on the Sumatran tigers … they hope to get lions again
 
The Hedgehog said:
The return of the Africa Alive Lions has come at the best time. Blackpool Zoo are renewing their Big Cat enclosure. With the Whipsnade Lion enclosure being vacant,I think Wallace and his Son Khari could move into it. I think Blackpool’s Tigeress could move to Howeletts. Arina their Tiger has recently passed away.
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Perhaps if it was temporary but whipsnade did say they were not looking for a bachelor / non breeding group.
 
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