Marineland Canada Marineland Canada News

@Kifaru Bwana, I dont know because the article is pretty wishy washy in its details. It made me ask so many questions. What's wrong with the water? I know they said PH levels and the water system but that really doesnt tell you anything. What are the symptoms of distress they are seeing in the animals? How many animals have died? I know Marineland said necropsies proved other causes but who was the vet doing the work? Your vet who knows their job is on the line if they vary from the company line? Or an independent vet who would be a more trustworthy source? Why did Marineland suddenly withdraw their appeal? Was it because they fixed the problem which means there was a problem? Sometimes reporters need to go back to journalism school and learn how to investigate and write a full article. This was basically just a Marineland sucks... maybe article. Present some facts so people can decide for themselves either way.

Now what do I think? I think Marineland has a history of ignoring animal welfare so I wouldn't be surprised in the least if it was true. The government isn't going to go to all of the expense of a months long investigation for nothing. They came to inspect and found enough amiss to open a full on investigation. If we ignore this though just the sheer volume of reports of neglect and abuse there really has to make one think. They don't even help themselves out when they try to spin reports, like when a keeper against orders rescued bear cubs born in the bear pit who were to be left to their fate (likely eaten by another bear). I mean geez don't tell the story it makes you look bad. You were going to let cubs die that you allowed to be created. Sure failed birth control. You know total birth control is achieved if you neuter all the males or spay the females. And bears shouldn't live in groups that large. Its just wrong. I could go on but wont. Back to the question what do I think? I think there is something wrong and Marineland has gone with its standard answer there is nothing wrong (while admitting there is something wrong because their own statement said the animals conditions were being monitored by a vet), and claim its all baseless attacks from animal activists. Hard to believe they are not lying through their teeth if they are talking at all. I'd like to have a better opinion of them. They have an incredibly successful beluga breeding program that should be worthy of being celebrated yet with the secrecy, lies and mysterious disappearances its hard to be happy about anything they do. Just my personal opinion though. Its worth the same as a grain of salt.
 
More trouble for Marineland. An activist group is suing them on behalf of its lone killer whale, Kiska, who they claim is being abused by not having a companion since 2011. Who knows how far this will get. Don't care for the activist angle of it. They want her in a sanctuary. However I do agree if Marineland really cared about her well being they would have bought more killer whales from Russia before the ban or done the right think when her former tank make Ike was sent home to Sea World and have her join him. At least then she would be with other orcas. But her mental well being has never been a big concern. Unfortunately she's probably too old now to risk moving.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/marineland-orca-1.6120865
 
Not to defend anything because I simply don't know the true circumstances at the park behind the scenes and so couldn't comment either way, but, I did want to address a couple of points:

First, saying that their animals are under veterinary monitoring shouldn't necessarily be considered an automatic admission of guilt. That's just good husbandry, even under the best of circumstances with perfectly healthy animals. I don't think it automatically implies that there's something more going on, although of course there absolutely could be -- I just don't think that particular statement gives that away.

It's also important to consider, regarding the proposed purchase of Russian killer whales, that China drove prices for wild-caught animals up exponentially and outbid essentially every other facility attempting to purchase them. Not just killer whales, either -- for example, bidding for walruses rose around 100x the previous starting prices, and could go into multi-millions of dollars per head. Imagine then how much more a killer whale would have cost. I don't know the park's financials, I'm not sure how feasible that would or would not have been.

I want to stress again that I'm definitely not defending anything -- I couldn't even if I wanted to, I feel like I simply don't have the necessary information to be able to take a definitive stance :) Only offering a couple of counterpoints. I wish all the best for their animal collection, whatever form that may take as decided by the persons involved. Marineland is up for a lot of changes in their future either way; it's going to be very interesting to see how they adapt.

Edit: One thing I will fully, whole-heartedly agree with: their PR and general social media management is outright horrific, lol.
 
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@csartie, you are absolutely right that being under veterinary care doesnt mean anything is wrong in normal places. Marineland has a reputation though that does make one seriously wonder what level of truth there is to anything they say. When in doubt I assume they are trying to hide the truth.

Oh I really wouldn't have wanted them to go after Russian whales anyway. If prices have gone crazy that's probably a really good thing. I personally don't think we should be taking them from the wild is right or even necessary (yes people want them but necessary as in leave wild whales wild unless rescue is the only option). It is crazy how much the prices are though. I doubt they could have been even in the game for one. The truly right thing to do for Kiska would have been to send her south with Ike where she would have been able to be with other killer whales and where Sea World could have moved her around to find her the best social fit. They just aren't meant to be alone.

Marineland is so secretive it is hard to definitively come down on either side of the argument. It pains me to agree with activists but with all the reports of neglect and down right abuse coming from all kinds of groups it is hard to ignore. That secretive nature does breed natural mistrust. When the old owner would talk to the media before his death I also just got a bad vibe from him and thats hard to shake as well. I know its under his wife now and changes are being made like switching to penguins in a very small tank that used to house dolphins and sea lions.... its been so long I cant remember much of it but even as a kid I remember thinking this tank isnt big enough for a dolphin. It's hard to shake those feelings that something isnt right with the care there when you started feeling that way as a kid who really didn't know any better. But I would like to have a positive view of Marineland. If they would embrace even a slight degree of transparency and hire a PR team with any good sense it might help to shift that negative image.
 
I largely agree with you just with pressuring phasing out whales and / or dolphins from dolphinaria seascapes Inthink we are really throwing away all expertise in husbandry and captive care, management and rescue and sea mammals Will suffer the unwanted consequences.

Bottomline: Remember we are killing our oceans and all life in it and we are becoming quite - unfortunately - very succesful at it!
 
It would be a shame to loose that expertise and there is definitely a need for it the way we are destroying our oceans. I still think there is a place for keeping whales and dolphins but it needs to be animals we already have, ones bred in captivity or animals in need of rescue, not healthy wild ones and maybe not ones as large as killer whales. I have little problem keeping them in captivity as long as there is always efforts made to improve husbandry and enclosures. I don't claim to be an expert in the field but hopefully one day we can find a better balance between providing the animals with what they need and the realities of captivity. We aren't there yet but it might be possible. Whales and dolphins in captivity is definitely a hot button topic with such a wide range of opinions. There are a lot of valid arguments all around.
 
One thing about the current worldwide captive orca population (excluding the recent import to China) that is overlooked is it's mainly (close to 80%) captive bred animals.
 
TZFan said:
@Kifaru Bwana, I dont know because the article is pretty wishy washy in its details. It made me ask so many questions. What's wrong with the water? I know they said PH levels and the water system but that really doesnt tell you anything. What are the symptoms of distress they are seeing in the animals? How many animals have died? I know Marineland said necropsies proved other causes but who was the vet doing the work? Your vet who knows their job is on the line if they vary from the company line? Or an independent vet who would be a more trustworthy source? Why did Marineland suddenly withdraw their appeal? Was it because they fixed the problem which means there was a problem? Sometimes reporters need to go back to journalism school and learn how to investigate and write a full article. This was basically just a Marineland sucks... maybe article. Present some facts so people can decide for themselves either way.


Now what do I think? I think Marineland has a history of ignoring animal welfare so I wouldn't be surprised in the least if it was true. The government isn't going to go to all of the expense of a months long investigation for nothing. They came to inspect and found enough amiss to open a full on investigation. If we ignore this though just the sheer volume of reports of neglect and abuse there really has to make one think. They don't even help themselves out when they try to spin reports, like when a keeper against orders rescued bear cubs born in the bear pit who were to be left to their fate (likely eaten by another bear). I mean geez don't tell the story it makes you look bad. You were going to let cubs die that you allowed to be created. Sure failed birth control. You know total birth control is achieved if you neuter all the males or spay the females. And bears shouldn't live in groups that large. Its just wrong. I could go on but wont. Back to the question what do I think? I think there is something wrong and Marineland has gone with its standard answer there is nothing wrong (while admitting there is something wrong because their own statement said the animals conditions were being monitored by a vet), and claim its all baseless attacks from animal activists. Hard to believe they are not lying through their teeth if they are talking at all. I'd like to have a better opinion of them. They have an incredibly successful beluga breeding program that should be worthy of being celebrated yet with the secrecy, lies and mysterious disappearances its hard to be happy about anything they do. Just my personal opinion though. Its worth the same as a grain of salt.
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When this article/news came out I too had many questions. But there are some things to note.

The brand new penguin exhibit (ML gutted and fully renovated the Aquarium Dome habitat area & their water system) was notably excluded from this.

My opinion is that the park had difficulty sourcing parts via supply chain to repair parts of the water systems- Friendship Cove and Arctic Cove are connected by one system, and the Stadium/Pinniped Holding/Backstage are connected by another. Adding to the fact that they had problems getting parts for several rides, it’s obvious that the animal habitats took priority- as it’s only recently that I heard that ride parts arrived. The withdrawal could very well mean that whatever was the problem, they fixed it.
I can’t really speak about their land animals as I don’t know them well.
As @csartie adds later on, the park is up for many changes. I welcome changes. And support is needed, as through support = more resources= more for animal care=better welfare.
And I agree with the statement on their PR, however at the same time I understand it’s difficult to navigate with the current political/“social justice” type climate concerning cetaceans in human care.
 
TZFan said:
And Marineland has been charged for using cetaceans as entertainment without a permit. Time to test out that new law in court.

Criminal charge against Marineland ‘milestone’ in fight to protect park’s animals, advocates say
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At most some sections of the presentations will likely be cut (probably the waterworks and modifying high energy behaviours ), and it is noted that the format of the presentation was designed to be compliant with legislation.
It sets a weird precedent, not just in Canada but also the United States- mainly in regards to other shows/presentations at other facilities (ie. SeaWorld & dolphin waterworks).

Strange though, Helen participates in very similar presentations (high energy behaviours especially by the PWSD) at SWT and there’s been no “complaints”. Then again she is no longer under Canada’s jurisdiction.
 
@Aelita, gotta remember Canada has its new fancy cetaceans laws and the US does not. The animal rights groups can complain about Sea World all they want but they can't get them charged with anything. In Canada with different laws they have had different options available. Kinda dumb that they just now complain though. The law is 2 years old and Marineland has most definitely been doing the same thing since the law was passed. Will be interesting to see how it plays out but I don't think it will have any impact on US facilities until laws are passed there.
 
TZFan said:
@Aelita, gotta remember Canada has its new fancy cetaceans laws and the US does not. The animal rights groups can complain about Sea World all they want but they can't get them charged with anything. In Canada with different laws they have had different options available. Kinda dumb that they just now complain though. The law is 2 years old and Marineland has most definitely been doing the same thing since the law was passed. Will be interesting to see how it plays out but I don't think it will have any impact on US facilities until laws are passed there.
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I agree.
On strange news, surprisingly Marineland and WSP were in talks and they even went out to Nova Scotia to do an assessment. But they said “not now” due to various reasons (funds, and not even being built yet being 2 reasons)
At the end of the day I do wish there was more constructive criticism/questions than outright complaining.
 
Aelita said:
I agree.
On strange news, surprisingly Marineland and WSP were in talks and they even went out to Nova Scotia to do an assessment. But they said “not now” due to various reasons (funds, and not even being built yet being 2 reasons)
At the end of the day I do wish there was more constructive criticism/questions than outright complaining.
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Wow, I just looked this up after seeing this post. Marineland Canada says site for planned whale refuge in Nova Scotia is too polluted - Halifax | Globalnews.ca
It's nice to see Marineland speaking a little more openly to the press, it just continues to be a really bad look for them to evade any and all questions about their beluga losses. I personally feel that the public deserve information about the facilities they're paying to visit or otherwise supporting, particularly in the age of ever-increasing general public interest around environmental, conservational, welfare, etc topics. I wish they'd give some explanation, and if the deaths are correlated to each other, lay out the facility's plan of action to prevent further preventable losses going forward.

Regarding the topic of shows ("presentations"), although not directly related to Marineland, even Toba Aquarium in Japan is reexamining their walrus show in light of the changing social attitude towards the use of animals for entertainment, citing the precedents set in North America. The times sure are changing.
 
Any updates on Kiska and her situation?

I've heard Marineland's previous owner has died and there were rumours the family was trying to sell the park.

If Marineland were concerned about her best interests, they would move her at least to another marine park were she can have the companionship of other orcas.
 
Jambo said:
Any updates on Kiska and her situation?

I've heard Marineland's previous owner has died and there were rumours the family was trying to sell the park.

If Marineland were concerned about her best interests, they would move her at least to another marine park were she can have the companionship of other orcas.
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There hasn’t exactly been any formal update on her. However in recent years her care team has increased enrichment for her-varying from different EEDs, tactile sessions and more alongside vet care/husbandry-from what I’ve seen on visits and photos by guests/caregivers.
Housing her with belugas would be risky (never done worldwide) , and the dolphins are a lot faster than her. It’s quite complex on whether or not she should be moved as none of us work with her, or know Kiska’s history, but we have to remember that no orca her age has ever been moved. The oldest were Bingo and Stella (KSW to PONA)
A logical step would be bringing in someone for an assessment- such as Animal Welfare Expertise’s Isabella Clegg, who’s done assessments for several marine mammal facilities.
 
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