Melbourne Zoo Future of Melbourne Zoo 2022 (Speculation / Fantasy)

[IndianRhino]

Interesting to see what might happen at Melbourne in the future but just a note @austrlain zoo gower, you are able to edit your posts so there’s no need to post several times within a few minutes. It just clogs up the thread with a bunch of posts when it’s easier to just take a moment to think about everything you want to say and write a slightly longer post.

Anyways, to answer your question I believe that’s some sort of map of the zoo but not too sure.

 

[austrlain zoo gower]

Ok will do

 

[Zoofan15]

Interesting to see what might happen at Melbourne in the future but just a note @austrlain zoo gower, you are able to edit your posts so there’s no need to post several times within a few minutes. It just clogs up the thread with a bunch of posts when it’s easier to just take a moment to think about everything you want to say and write a slightly longer post.

Anyways, to answer your question I believe that’s some sort of map of the zoo but not too sure.

@IndianRhino, yes that’s a map of the zoo.

And yes @austrlain zoo gower, condense your posts where possible. The aim of posting on ZooChat is to consider whether the post you’re making adds value to the site. Don’t say across three messages what could be said in a single post.

Did you know you can delete and edit posts for up to an hour? You can do this by clicking the edit and delete buttons on your previous post (available for 59 minutes after the post was made). If you make two posts, you can copy your second post; paste it into the first (by clicking edit); and then delete your second post (who’s content is now in the first).

Trail of the Elephants Map

On the subject of maps, here’s one of the elephant exhibit. I thought it’d add some perspective to discussions. Photo credit to ZooLex:


ZooLex Image - Site Plan

 

[Jambo]

Any info about the big cat cages behind the tigers size, any info like that

The cages are behind the main Tiger enclosure (in the trail of the elephants). There’s one cage next to the tiger enclosure (can be seen from the viewing area), and there’s also at least three to four more, some of which can be viewed from the Treetop monkey trail (albeit through the tree line). The cages are around 20x20 metres I’d say but that’s only from personal observation.

 

[Jambo]

I’d be interested to know where you obtained this plan? It’s designed rather interestingly, and it’s disappointing to see the species being grouped taxonomically.

 

[Jambo]

My trail lists

Gorrila rainforest
Ring-tailed lemurs, the bachelor group is fine
Black and white ruffed lemur- breeding would be cool but bachelor is ok
Western lowland Gorrila- I would love to see more breeding kimya is 50 so will probably die soon and that will leave three importation of 3 females would be great if they didnt do this, Adelaide has expressed intresssed in Gorrila but i dont think Melbourne would want to lose them
Pygmy Hippo- I want to see a breeding pare Melbourne has the facilities to do it two exhibits
Mandrills- a breeding pare would be nice
Tree top monkeys and apes
White cheeked gibbon- i belive breeding pare so baby’s in the future?
Cotton top tamarin- pretty successful breeding
Colubus monkey- it would be nice to see a breeding pare
Spider monkey- good breeding troop
Slow loris ore tree shew would be cool in the small exhibit
white faced saki- in the biggest avalable monkey and would be the first holder in the country could import from Asia
Tree kangaroo or some sort of interesting creature
Empire tamarin- breeding pare would be nice

I don’t see why this trail should be changed, it’s still quite a great area. The only change would be species for me.

The lemur enclosures likely won’t have changes to them. Maybe lovebirds could be added to the Ring Tailed Lemur aviary. I’d like to see a breeding pair of Red Ruffed Lemurs added too.

Kimya isn’t 50, Yuska is. I’d imagine it would be better for breeding to continue with the importation of some new females.

It would be great for Melbourne to have a breeding pair of Pygmy Hippos again. And also for Mandrills to return.

I’d like to see the Treetop Trail divided into regions. They have eight enclosures. White Cheeked Gibbon, Spider Monkey, Emperor and Cotton Top Tamirans and Black and White Colobus should stay. I’d like to see Golden Lion Tamirans, Languars and Tree Kangaroo be added as well. All three species could be sourced from within the region.

 

[MRJ]

I’d be interested to know where you obtained this plan? It’s designed rather interestingly, and it’s disappointing to see the species being grouped taxonomically.

The label on the plan indicates it came from Zoolex, which is a website dedicated to zoo enclosure design. Google it and enjoy.

 

[Zoofan15]

Kimya isn’t 50, Yuska is. I’d imagine it would be better for breeding to continue with the importation of some new females.

Re. Gorillas:

I can forsee Kanzi remaining in the troop as a non breeding female. She’s not valuable genetically and with Yuska in her senior years, she’ll contribute to balancing out the number of females in the troop when Yuska dies.

Kimya has been trying to conceive unsuccessfully for a while now. Hopefully she’s successful in the future; but if not, it would compensate an immigrant female being excluded from the mother-daughter dyad of Kimya and Kanzi (with the new female receiving additional status through raising offspring within the troop).

Alternatively, the zoo may look at importing two young females to join the troop; though Otana comes from a well represented line and they may be happy to minimise his breeding as they’ve done to date via the provision of one breeding partner.

 

[Abbey]

Thanks for this interesting thread. Not being from Victoria, I have only visited Melbourne Zoo a handful of times, but it is insightful to read about the various directions in which the zoo might go, particularly in relation to the phase-out of elephants.

I would certainly love if a Malayan Tapir breeding program could be reestablished in the region; however, I question how feasible it would be, given the previous issues in relation to the animals going blind. Was there ever a firm conclusion reached on why this happened and how it could be prevented? I'll do some research and, if I find anything, I'll either add it to this thread, the tapir population thread, or create another.

 

[Zoofan15]

I would certainly love if a Malayan Tapir breeding program could be reestablished in the region; however, I question how feasible it would be, given the previous issues in relation to the animals going blind. Was there ever a firm conclusion reached on why this happened and how it could be prevented? I'll do some research and, if I find anything, I'll either add it to this thread, the tapir population thread, or create another.

This source identifies light exposure as a possible cause of blindness in captive Malayan tapir:

Tapirus - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics

All species have brown eyes, often with a bluish cast to them, which is described as corneal cloudiness of unknown etiology and is most commonly found in Malayan tapirs. This condition has never been definitively diagnosed in wild individuals and may be associated with excessive exposure to light or trauma in captivity.

Needless to say, there’s no shortage of light in Australian zoos that even well planted exhibits would struggle to mitigate. Unless we’re to provide substantial indoor housing (which isn’t ideal or cost effective), it’s probably reasonable to conclude they’re not the best species for the region - despite how much we’d love to see them at Melbourne.

 

[Abbey]

This source identifies light exposure as a possible cause of blindness in captive Malayan tapir:

Tapirus - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics

All species have brown eyes, often with a bluish cast to them, which is described as corneal cloudiness of unknown etiology and is most commonly found in Malayan tapirs. This condition has never been definitively diagnosed in wild individuals and may be associated with excessive exposure to light or trauma in captivity.

Needless to say, there’s no shortage of light in Australian zoos that even well planted exhibits would struggle to mitigate. Unless we’re to provide substantial indoor housing (which isn’t ideal or cost effective), it’s probably reasonable to conclude they’re not the best species for the region - despite how much we’d love to see them at Melbourne.

Thank you for sharing that article. I think you're right, which is a shame, considering that they tick a lot of boxes otherwise making them an ideal display. Still, we'll make the most of Semangka, Mia and Jelita while we've got them! Hopefully there will be a brighter future for the Brazilian Tapir program.

 

[Zoofan15]

Hopefully there will be a brighter future for the Brazilian Tapir program.

Darling Downs Zoo have stated they hope to receive a mate for their Brazilian tapir, so hopefully an import is in the works. A number of new founders would be beneficial given many pairings within the region haven’t yielded results.

This could take the form of a join import between DDZ and some of the main zoos; or DDZ would be the sole importer and all going well, establish themselves as the breeding hub within the region - supplying the other zoos depending on numbers bred there.

Brazilian tapir aren’t as striking as their Malayan counterparts, but a fascinating species nonetheless and one I miss seeing at Hamilton Zoo.

 

[tetrapod]

Several points:
Peccaries cannot be imported, so once they are gone there cannot be any replacements.
Malayan tapir were on the phase out list due to the husbandry issues. I'm not sure whether Brazilians suffer from the same issue, and have historically bred well in the country. This should be the species imported and managed in the region.
I cannot see MZ keeping Water buffalo, given they are not rare (well the feral/domesticated ones, anyway) and have little conservation value.
With the aging and non-breeding coati population soon to hit the wall, now is the point when the region's zoos should be importing some fresh blood and actually come up with a program to maintain them for years to come!
Maned wolf and sun bears would be welcome additions to the ridiculously named Carnivore area.

 

[Zorro]

Several points:
Peccaries cannot be imported, so once they are gone there cannot be any replacements.
Malayan tapir were on the phase out list due to the husbandry issues. I'm not sure whether Brazilians suffer from the same issue, and have historically bred well in the country. This should be the species imported and managed in the region.
I cannot see MZ keeping Water buffalo, given they are not rare (well the feral/domesticated ones, anyway) and have little conservation value.
With the aging and non-breeding coati population soon to hit the wall, now is the point when the region's zoos should be importing some fresh blood and actually come up with a program to maintain them for years to come!
Maned wolf and sun bears would be welcome additions to the ridiculously named Carnivore area.

@tetrapod I agree with all your post but I still dont really understand as to why so many species within our region dont have managed programs for maintaining them at a minimum level also where they get to a point of no return or start to become very inbred, it would seem a no brainer really for the people dealing with zoo animals in the region

 

[Zoofan15]

Several points:
Peccaries cannot be imported, so once they are gone there cannot be any replacements.
Malayan tapir were on the phase out list due to the husbandry issues. I'm not sure whether Brazilians suffer from the same issue, and have historically bred well in the country. This should be the species imported and managed in the region.
I cannot see MZ keeping Water buffalo, given they are not rare (well the feral/domesticated ones, anyway) and have little conservation value.
With the aging and non-breeding coati population soon to hit the wall, now is the point when the region's zoos should be importing some fresh blood and actually come up with a program to maintain them for years to come!
Maned wolf and sun bears would be welcome additions to the ridiculously named Carnivore area.

That’s why it annoys me Melbourne Zoo have just sat on their Collared peccaries for the past decade without breeding. If they’re not gonna breed the, give them to someone who will - otherwise the region will soon lose a species it can never import. Surely Altina or Darling Downs Zoo would have accepted them and had great success in breeding them.

Brazilian tapir previously bred well at Adelaide Zoo and Taronga Western Plains Zoo. Darling Downs Zoo mentioned their intention to receive a mate for their tapir via a video earlier this year, so hopefully an import is on the cards.

Melbourne Zoo’s Carnivores precinct was a very backwards concept from the start. I’m not sure if someone thought they was being clever by going against what every ever zoo in the region is trying to do (precincts arranged by geography) but the result is a mash up of species that make the precinct seem muddled. Many visitors seem to prefer the previous lion exhibit, which was larger and allowed the zoo to breed several litters of cubs.

 

[Zoofan15]

I still dont really understand as to why so many species within our region dont have managed programs for maintaining them at a minimum level also where they get to a point of no return or start to become very inbred, it would seem a no brainer really for the people dealing with zoo animals in the region

I believe the simplest reason is a managed breeding programme relies on a number of zoos sharing the same goal (to hold that species).

This is because the main zoos are generally unwilling to dedicate multiple exhibits to a species (unless it’s a meerkat). Having four exhibits of that species will bring in no additional visitors and financially speaking, is ineffective budgeting. Therefore, for a population to sustain long term, multiple holders have to be involved.

Inevitably, the main zoos decide to phase species out (due to cost, lack of engagement with the public etc) and support for the breeding programme weakens. This is turn offers the remaining holders a reason to phase this species out - lack of availability within the region.

The exception seems to be the smaller zoos such as Darling Downs Zoo and Altina. They see the wider picture and are willing to dedicate budget and infrastructure to holding large population (often across multiple exhibits). Their initiative has seen populations of declining species recover and flourish e.g. Grant’s zebra and Maned wolf.

 

[Zorro]

As has been mentioned in resent times on the forum exhibits holding the same species multiple times is already happening. We have a small limited number of real zoos compared to other countries in Europe and the USA. The only other option would be to keep importing animals which is expensive and difficult at the best of times.Years ago it was called a cooperative stocking policy. We need our zoos to cooperate more or end up losing more species

 

[Jambo]

Several points:
Peccaries cannot be imported, so once they are gone there cannot be any replacements.
Malayan tapir were on the phase out list due to the husbandry issues. I'm not sure whether Brazilians suffer from the same issue, and have historically bred well in the country. This should be the species imported and managed in the region.
I cannot see MZ keeping Water buffalo, given they are not rare (well the feral/domesticated ones, anyway) and have little conservation value.
With the aging and non-breeding coati population soon to hit the wall, now is the point when the region's zoos should be importing some fresh blood and actually come up with a program to maintain them for years to come!
Maned wolf and sun bears would be welcome additions to the ridiculously named Carnivore area.

I talked to a keeper last time and she confirmed the remaining peccaries will be the last, they don’t have any plans to import more and it makes sense if there are restrictions.

It’ll be interesting to see what happens to the Malayan Tapir and Peccary enclosures once their inhabitants die. They’re decent enclosures, but I’d imagine Melbourne would want to demolish them for a newly improved enclosure hopefully for a new species! A small South American area for Maned Wolf and Capybara would be good enough for me.

Melbourne phased out Arturo, so I don’t really see them bringing Brazilian Tapir back unless some other zoos in the region get on board with them.

Melbourne have a nice Coati enclosure and I believe have all girls now, so importing a male could kickstart breeding again. They had interest in breeding them in the past, and breed more than forty within a period of a couple of years just over a decade ago.

Melbourne did claim that Maned Wolfs did not fit their animal displaying criteria and so phased them out, so I’m not sure they’ll go to importing some once again. Sun Bears are a possibility, but unless some new individuals are imported into the region or there’s some success with breeding, this is probably unlikely.

 

[Abbey]

That’s why it annoys me Melbourne Zoo have just sat on their Collared peccaries for the past decade without breeding. If they’re not gonna breed the, give them to someone who will - otherwise the region will soon lose a species it can never import. Surely Altina or Darling Downs Zoo would have accepted them and had great success in breeding them.

Brazilian tapir previously bred well at Adelaide Zoo and Taronga Western Plains Zoo. Darling Downs Zoo mentioned their intention to receive a mate for their tapir via a video earlier this year, so hopefully an import is on the cards.

Melbourne Zoo’s Carnivores precinct was a very backwards concept from the start. I’m not sure if someone thought they was being clever by going against what every ever zoo in the region is trying to do (precincts arranged by geography) but the result is a mash up of species that make the precinct seem muddled. Many visitors seem to prefer the previous lion exhibit, which was larger and allowed the zoo to breed several litters of cubs.

I'm speculating, but I wonder if the purpose of the Carnivores trail was to create exhibits which would house species the zoo planned to retain long-term, or habitats in which the animals could be easily exchanged for different species without breaking the theme. Many geographically based precincts end up housing species not from that part of the world due to the needs of the zoo, ie bongo and pygmy hippo in what was formerly known as Wild Asia at Taronga. Ecosystem based precincts provide a compromise (ie Melbourne's rainforest), but do lose some of that messaging, and often result from a geographical precinct having proved impractical.

That said, I agree that geographically based precincts give the best opportunities for immersion and educating the public about in-situ threats and conservation efforts for a particular species. While obviously still a current development, Wild Indonesia does this well at Auckland by housing species the zoo has a clear commitment to and are plentiful in the region (tigers, siamangs, etc).

 

[Zoofan15]

I'm speculating, but I wonder if the purpose of the Carnivores trail was to create exhibits which would house species the zoo planned to retain long-term, or habitats in which the animals could be easily exchanged for different species without breaking the theme. Many geographically based precincts end up housing species not from that part of the world due to the needs of the zoo, ie bongo and pygmy hippo in what was formerly known as Wild Asia at Taronga. Ecosystem based precincts provide a compromise (ie Melbourne's rainforest), but do lose some of that messaging, and often result from a geographical precinct having proved impractical.

That said, I agree that geographically based precincts give the best opportunities for immersion and educating the public about in-situ threats and conservation efforts for a particular species. While obviously still a current development, Wild Indonesia does this well at Auckland by housing species the zoo has a clear commitment to and are plentiful in the region (tigers, siamangs, etc).

I think first and foremost it was an attempt to appeal to the interests of the general public. Carnivores are exiting. Carnivores have teeth. Carnivores are what bring in the crowds. It’s a simplistic concept that may appeal to the visitors in theory; but in practice, it’s been far from spectacular and does little to educate the visitors (which zoos generally base their ethos around).

You make a good point about being able to swap exhibits out for others. African wild dog for Maned wolf could be one example; while I think their commitment to African lion and Snow leopard leopard are more long term. Assessments of visitor engagement likely play a part here. Coati don’t have the appeal of a Snow leopard and while nice as novelty, aren’t gonna keep the crowds coming back.

I couldn’t be happier with Auckland Zoo’s South East Asia trail. It’s world class, with multiple species and innovative exhibits. It’s geographically concise and will be an asset to the zoo for years to come, allowing them plenty of space to breed the species it houses and contribute to regional breeding programmes.